69 replies to this topic

[i_still_miss_fowler]

Here is a leaked letter from Arsenal to the Premier league





Its seems our owners (along with Arsenal, Spurs and United) are pressing for even stricter FFP rules in the PL than have been proposed.

Key is breaking even over a 3 year peroid.

Notable by their absence are City and Chelsea.

[AussieLad]

and your suprised by:1 - these are the 4 biggest clubs in terms of financial stability should FFP be enforced.2 - both citeh and chelski would be screwed, hence they are opposed to it</p>

[i_still_miss_fowler]

I am not surprised, but is is notable because the new rules are being brought in not because of FFP, but because a new TV deal will be coming into play. PL clubs do not want to see that money go straight to agents with ever increasing fees, and almost all clubs are in agreement including Chelsea etc(last I read Wigan were one of the few opposed)

However, this letter indicates PL clubs are trying to take it one step further. Not simply to curb transfer increases but ensure FFP to solidify thier position at the top of the tree and also hinder City and Chelsea.

[Lucas]

Seems more political than an honest interest in decreasing costs, to me anyway.

[lfc.eddie]

Seems more political than an honest interest in decreasing costs, to me anyway.

Yup, apart from Chelsea, Man City has never been a threat and out of nowhere they become one that disrupt the harmonious top 4 or 5. So to impose such rules nobody can do what Man City owners did to create another monster in the league and sees the traditional top-4/5 dropped down the pecking order.

Great way of winning.

[Mascot88]

I might have misunderstood you there Eddie, but are you saying that the kind of leapfrogging done by Citeh and Chelsea is reasonable?

You have to accept a certain amount of politiking, but I don't think trying to stop anymore clubs basically 'turning all the cheats on' is a bad thing.

[lfc.eddie]

I might have misunderstood you there Eddie, but are you saying that the kind of leapfrogging done by Citeh and Chelsea is reasonable?

You have to accept a certain amount of politiking, but I don't think trying to stop anymore clubs basically 'turning all the cheats on' is a bad thing.

You have the resources, you do what you want with it. If they want to be fair, control the ticket prices. Collect all the gate receipts by the Prem League corporation body. Then pay for expenses to manage the grounds. Then spread the revenue evenly.

United has 80K seater, Arsenal has 60K seater and ability to charge 60quid a ticket because of the purchasing power, and so on. These clubs aren't exactly QPR sized stadium or Wigan's attendance. They are utilising their financial strength. So that's fair isn't it? Fair to the small clubs.

These are all politics. They have no interest in making football exciting, these clubs heading the pack to get this ruling going is to make sure they don't fall off that Champs League bandwagon, and stop short on getting those gravy boats from qualifying for that Euro competition. Just because now the clubs mentioned, their owners are worried another Oil tycoon or some other tycoon would come in and buy the likes of Everton or Villa or even Fulham and all hell broke lose, because a new big spender is in town, and one of these guys will fall off the pecking order.

If they really want to make it fair, do what the German did. Involve the fans. Then I say the financial fair play is well worth a shout.

[Toby]

Frankly I am for a solid salary cap, never mind UEFA or other countries leagues. That salary cap should be able to be fulfilled by the smallest of clubs too, not just a few large clubs. While there have been problems with some Premier League clubs turning a profit, there are many more clubs in the lower leagues having problems turning a profit. No system is perfect, but the even handedness can go considerably further across all of the leagues. Whether the clubs are owned by the fans is besides the point.

[Lucas or Allen]

How does this help us?Man Utd will win the title every year if we stop City and Chelsea.Do we think we would be top 4 if they were neutered?We are so far off top 4 this would not even help us.This shows the sneaky corrupt politics that exists..I would rather watch anybody win than Manure....

[verde13]

How does this help us?Man Utd will win the title every year if we stop City and Chelsea.Do we think we would be top 4 if they were neutered?We are so far off top 4 this would not even help us.This shows the sneaky corrupt politics that exists..I would rather watch anybody win than Manure....

Maybe we should stop expecting others to do our job and do it ourselves. If FFP gives us an advantage towards that end then by all means let it happen.

[lancashirelad]

Seems more political than an honest interest in decreasing costs, to me anyway.

You are correct to be suspicious and think this may be politically motivated.
There are lost of "suggestions and rumors" that the united representative, the vice chairman of the FA (a Mr David Gill) is being put forward by the English FA to be president of EUFA when Platini comes up for re-election in 2015, and he has stated in the past, albeit before the Glaziers bought Utd, that he is not in favor of the FFP rules, which seems contrary to the clubs who's names are on this letter. So we must watch this space carefully.

It may be however, that over the past year or two as he has seen City spend and spend and win the league that he's now protecting untied position, and changed his mind to be in favor of FFP!

[Toby]

How does this help us?Man Utd will win the title every year if we stop City and Chelsea.Do we think we would be top 4 if they were neutered?We are so far off top 4 this would not even help us.This shows the sneaky corrupt politics that exists..I would rather watch anybody win than Manure....

When City and Chelsea have to sell or cut players to turn a true profit, live within their means, they won't be in the top 4 any more. While both clubs are ahead of us today, they won't be within several years when their players on high wages retire. The secret to finishing above ManU is to outplay them. They will face the same music LFC has when they no longer finish qualifying for the Champions League.

[Spitfire]

I'd take it a step further - I'd also look to have strict debt to revenue ratios in place - to ensure you don't get situations like we had a few seasons ago. I would also look to protect clubs more from losing their best players. I understand the bosman ruling, and restraints of trade etc - but for a smaller club to grow and build they have to have some power in being able to hold on to their better players.

I understand it is easier siad than done - but we can dream can't we.

[lfc.eddie]

When City and Chelsea have to sell or cut players to turn a true profit, live within their means, they won't be in the top 4 any more. While both clubs are ahead of us today, they won't be within several years when their players on high wages retire. The secret to finishing above ManU is to outplay them. They will face the same music LFC has when they no longer finish qualifying for the Champions League.

Is that an open secret?

The ifs and buts won't take you anywhere, as long as the idea of this proposal is to stop new investors to buy a cheaper club and turn them into a force in the league. Or the proposal is also to stop the likes of Chelsea and City for being able to spend the money their owners possess. That is not looking to improve the league and leveling the playing field to protect the smaller clubs. That is to protect the interest of a few elites in the league, the traditional top-4.

We outplayed United in 08/09 season, we let them eat a nice big piece of humble pie by trashing them at their own home, 4-1. We didn't exactly finish on top of them that season.

[steveee]

I think something needs to be done.. but what is the solution I don't have any clue. remember, Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool all have american owners and 2 of the owners of those clubs are also owners of teams in the NFL which has a salary cap that all leagues in US point to that works best. If something like FFP got put in place which is different than the NFL salary cap it would put Arsenal and Liverpool back on top over Man City and Chelsea right under United year after year. Like Eddie was saying.. not only are Chelsea and City opposed to FFP obviously but so are some of the smaller clubs in the league at the bottom of the table. What I find odd about FSG our owners is that they own a MLB team too which takes advantage of spending power like City and Chelsea do in our league.. they outspend many teams and are against a salary cap in Baseball I believe.

I am not sure if a salary cap type thing would work in our league but can't deny that the NFL has the best structure as far as competitive balance and because of it bring in the most revenue as far as any league in the world. So it's no surprise that the US owners in our league are looking at that I'm sure. A thing like FFP only would basically just bring back the traditional clubs to the top though year and after year really. Yea as a Liverpool supporter of course I want this.. but I'm not sure it's best for the overall health of the league..

[TFC]

Yea as a Liverpool supporter of course I want this.. but I'm not sure it's best for the overall health of the league..

Its not the ideal solution, but its still healthier than what we currently have. Right now the only hope clubs have is the incredibly small chance that someone rich will buy their club and also be willing to waste an incredible amount of money.

It would clearly benefit LFC, Spurs, Arsenal and ManU more than any other club, but there is no doubt that it would also benefit smaller clubs who manage well. Without Chelsea/ManCity in 09/10 Aston Villa would have made the CL. In 10/11 it would have been the LFC, Spurs, Arsenal and ManU, but in 11/12 it would have been Newcastle instead of us. This season Everton would be in there with WBA in 5th sniffing at 4th. Aston Villa, Newcastle and Everton would have all made the CL in the past 4 years, and they all would have benefited greatly from that additional revenue.

The way it is now the only chance the majority of clubs have of making an impact in the league is to hope and pray that someone rich buys them. Under FFP it wouldn't be much better, but it would still be easier for clubs to compete than it currently is. It may not be much healthier or a league but it wouldn't be hurting it in terms of competitiveness.

[Odin_telamon]

http://m.espn.go.com...898&city=boston

I suppose it won't be long before we are sponsored by durex then?....scratch that,that would have happened under the previous owners since they were a pair of dicks

[brightonpete]

ah,i was gonna post that Francona book link.Not good reading from that excerpt,and it does sound kinda familiar to how they are running liverpool.Maybe francona is still a little bitter but still it's worrying.

[Liveforthereds]

Is that letter the real thing or is it a Fake ? either way FFP should be adopted by all Leagues across Europe and sanctions should be enforced for all rule breakers regardless of the teams reputation. A wage cap is not needed but what they should do is cap the wage budget to 45% of turnover. The clubs should also outlaw Agents or if a player wants an agent then they should pay for his fees out of there signing on fees, Signing on fees should be know more than 2.5% of the total wages over contract.

[Rooster]

Fake letter for sure.

But at least it allows us to discuss an important issue. In my country the football codes all play under a salary cap. Whilst rumours abound about routing, it generally evens up the competition. I think that's a good thing, others disagree. Teams have been known to finish near the top one year and near the bottom the next. Every supporter has a chance at the start. There is never a team consistently at the top year after year. Imagine Real, Bayern Celtic etc not at the top.

I don't hold a lot of hope that FFP will work but we will see.

[i_still_miss_fowler]

Why do you think the letter is fake ?

Every major newspaper (Guardian, Times, Daily Mail etc) are reporting it.

[JustHitMyHead]

It may not be as effective as intended, but I think we can see that FFP does have some effect on spending. And I think it will be the trend going forward...

Things are going to be much tighter going forward as most clubs try to break even.

[Hope in your heart]

http://m.espn.go.com...898&city=boston

I suppose it won't be long before we are sponsored by durex then?....scratch that,that would have happened under the previous owners since they were a pair of dicks

Werner: "We need to start winning in more exciting fashion" and then he goes on and ruins the team's equilibrium and club's finances by bringing in 'sexy' but inefficient stars?

Talk about having one's head in the ass and one's ass in the fog...

[Liveforthereds]

Why do you think the letter is fake ?

Every major newspaper (Guardian, Times, Daily Mail etc) are reporting it.

The letter looks a bit amertrish to me and not the kind of type face I would expect from a Prem Club, but then again I may just be reading too much into it.

[i_still_miss_fowler]

Well at least we know the true reason reason Spearing and Adam were shipped out