Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
3 years ago, a very short 3 years ago, people were examining Fergusons transfer history. In particular, people were talking about how Rooney, Ronaldo and Rio Ferdinand {costing a combined £72m} were not cutting it. They were bashed 4-1 by Boro and then knocked out of Europe by Benfica. They actually finished LAST in their group. Didnt even make UEFA. People were wondering if it wasnt time for Ferguson to move on.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
Originally Posted by 1dragon
Things like this piss me off no end. Everybody knows Cisse was signed by HOULLIER prior to Benitez arriving. And I dont recall being linked with Villa in Rafa's first summer?
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
[/QUOTE]
The problem when looking a transfers is that we dont know the ins and outs, so figures are only semi true.
Look at some of the higher value transfers
Torres £26.5M
Keane £19 M
Riera £8M
Taking it that these are true values (highly debatable) I imagine this is not the fee we actually pay the club. My guess is that we probably paid 2/3rds of the fee is actually paid the rest will be related to performance payments (If we win the league, Champs league, score X number of goals, played X number of games)
The same is true with players sold (I for one do not believe we made a 7million loss on Keane)
We dont know sell on clauses (especially with the young players sold)
or performance related bonuses we recieve.
Those who want to put us in a good light will probably state the lowest transfer values, while those who want to put us in a bad light will state the highest figure possible. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
This quote sums up this site lately, and if you don't understand what I mean you're part of the problem.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
The problem when looking a transfers is that we dont know the ins and outs, so figures are only semi true.
Look at some of the higher value transfers
Torres £26.5M
Keane £19 M
Riera £8M
Taking it that these are true values (highly debatable) I imagine this is not the fee we actually pay the club. My guess is that we probably paid 2/3rds of the fee is actually paid the rest will be related to performance payments (If we win the league, Champs league, score X number of goals, played X number of games)
The same is true with players sold (I for one do not believe we made a 7million loss on Keane)
We dont know sell on clauses (especially with the young players sold)
or performance related bonuses we recieve.
Those who want to put us in a good light will probably state the lowest transfer values, while those who want to put us in a bad light will state the highest figure possible. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.[/QUOTE]
Judging by them figures,no matter how what way you look at them i.e. lower or higher transfer fees, it states that we have had a net spend of roughly 7 million in the last two years and how people slate benitez now for struglling to mount a title race is beyond me.
We need to get rid of the cancer above him which is preventing him from doing his job to the ability we all know he can.
on a side note vornion was a free signing with a reasonable reputation from germany to fill a place in our squad id say benitez thought he was finished with him when he went out on loan and then is forced to bring him back because he needs personnel and of course he is going to give him him confidence by defending him in the press cause he might need him to play every now and again.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
My gut feeling, although I obviously can't substantiate it, it that Voronin is still a Liverpool player because it became obvious towards the end of the summer that he would not see the transfer money.
On the crazy thread (the sack Benitez one) Wozza correctly points out since the Americans took over the investment in the playing side has been shocking. Easily less that the money brought in through on the field success, like champions league qualification and progress.
After finishing second we might have expected that the funding would have been made available to add a couple of quality signings. In fact Rafa has been granted around £0 to consolidate and make the final push.
And people are blaming him. It's incredible.
PS. The fee for Torres was 20m. I think Rafa has confirmed this.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
Why not blame him he is the manager isn't he? He would get credit if we were doing well wouldn't he, afterall G&H do no decide who plays what substitutions to make and so o.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
Because the manager has done well over the last couple of years inspite of G&H (besides the shirt deal, they have done nothing for this club). They are a cancer and the surprising thing is it has taken this long to badly affect things on the pitch.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
But you see, that's the problem. Why sign a player on a free when they bring F all to the club? He signed Voronin, barely played him, he was poor when he played then loaned him out, he wasn't needed, he was a waste of time but he's back here again for another season embarrassing himself at this level. He signed Degen on a free, a pile of shit, injury prone and completely unreliable. Regardless of cost, they've been a waste of time and effort, not only that, but he signed Degen not long before we signed Dossena, had we spent £7m on a right back and got a left back on a free, I'd have agreed, but it's very slight mistakes like these that can make all the differences in a season.
People seem to take what I've said and jumped to conclusions, often without reading the rest. Rafa is good in the market, he's signed some top players, some world class players and transformed our team for the better; however, what we've seen in the past is Rafa be extremely ruthless, extremely quick and generally effective in the market. Shipping out the dead wood and upgrading quality year on year; however, we're still seeing Babel, we're still seeing Degen, Voronin, Dossena is still here and he's still signing players like Kyrgiakos. Kyrgiakos, in my opinion, was the most uninspiring signing of Rafa's era. A poor player, a slow player who brought nothing to the club, we had Ayala who I believe is currently better, aged 18 and I'd rather Rafa just took the risk on a youngster instead of a 30 year old carthorse. Kyrgiakos is poor, he hasn't improved us in any aspect, he doesn't have any sell on value and he will play a minimal amount of games: why not just play Ayala? Why not just take the risk for once? In my opinion, it was a very small risk.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
Come on, God was hardly a fantastic signing, was he?
Are you honestly saying Wenger hasn't signed players of that quality?
Let's have a go with Wenger then:
Henry
Pires
Petit
Overmars
Vieira
Anelka
Fabregas
Clichy
Sagna
Flamini
Toure
Lehmann
Gilberto
van Persie
Eboue
Arshavin
Nasri
Hleb
All off the top of my head, all outstanding signings in my opinion, if you take into account things like transfer fee and what they brought to the club. Seriously, only a mad man would argue Rafa's record's better than Wenger's.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
Well said, I started a thread on this topic in the summer as I was pretty despondent keeping Voronin and buying Kyrgiakos and sending youth players out on loan
http://www.thisisanfield.com/forums/...ad.php?t=13036
but the general consensus at the time was that people would prefer a pro and that if they are good enough, they will force their way in. However with recent results peoples opinions might be changing.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
I'm going to post this in here as well if you don't mind mods.
Found this on RAWK. Cant cut and paste the bit I want for some reason. But the info is in the link.
the press don't give a shit that he had to replace 30 players from the houllier era
they dont give a shit that about 30 of those 70 signings were for the youth/reserves
they don't give a shit that the net spend is only 80m
they don't give a shit that our squad has the fifth highest wages(maybe sixth because Arsenals wage bill might be higher) or the fifth highest squad cost
Wish someone like Toney Barrett would stick this in the mail http://tomkinstimes.com/2009/10/fao-...l-journalists/ but doubt his editors would give a shit about dispelling any of the bollocks. Tomkins added up the cost of every player still at the clubs in the league and
Man City - £270m
Chelsea - £240m
Man Utd - £219m
Spurs - £202m
Liverpool - £159m
Arsenal - £90m(but them players like merida are noted as free but they have to pay barca £3.2m for him and im sure fabregas cost them a few million compo but well worth it)
Im sure Sunderland are knocking on our door as well
Reading the bile these hacks are throwing benitez's way is disgusting like they even care what happens at OUR club - its up to us supporters to decide if we feel the Manager has taken us as far as we can not those headline hunting c*nts.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
It doesn't quite work like that, for me. Take Wenger, for example, when he got Cesc, he said that in training, he tried Cesc with Vieira, but it couldn't work, he tried Vieira with Gilberto and it worked and he tried Cesc with Gilberto and that worked. Wenger took the risk of letting Vieira go for Cesc's development, he knew he was good enough to play and he knew that it was best for his development.
Seeing Ayala come in against Stoke, he loved it and he never looked out of place, he deserved the Carling cup games and if he could show his worth, maybe the odd league game. Rafa decided against that, he thought it was best to bring in a journeyman from a very mediocre league, a player aged 30 who has proven very little in his career. The transfer was woeful and people say "who else could he have got?", well I'd rather he got nobody as it just adds yet more mediocrity to the squad, it wastes time and stunts the development of others.
Similar with Voronin this year, I'll be surprised if Voronin starts over 10 games this year, whilst I'll be surprised if he plays over 25 games this season; why not give Nemeth those chances instead? A youngster who has played class for the reserves, had a decent enough pre-season and has been crying out for first team games for over a year. Why not just play the promising youngster and let go of the carthorse?
I dunno, maybe it's standards, but some of the players at the club have never been good enough for us, whilst others signed with reputations, I also believe some of shown in their time here they aren't good enough. If the manager cannot identify these players and get rid, if the manager is signing players who are nowhere near good enough, then he's failing in the market. Rafa's been fairly successful in the transfer market, but there have also been quite a few crap signings, too.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
REDWIRE
What has your buddy Cesc won at Arsenal since Wenger the genius opted to drop Viera for him?
The 2005 FA Cup. Well **** me what a genius Wenger is. Hasn't even won a Carling Cup with that amazing Youth team he's got.
What has Rafa won in the same time? Hmmmmm let's see.
And bare in mind in 2004/05 when Rafa came here Wenger had a 7 year headstart on him.
IN RAFA I TRUST
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
Who is better in the transfer market; Arsene Wenger or Rafael Benitez?
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
Who plays the better football? - This is a question by the way.. No cynicism intended
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
This is the crux of an issue I am VERY concerned with!!
Everything is now a feast or a famine with this club and with Mr. Bentez at the helm. Most supporters realise that we are really suffering with bad luck/injuries at the minute, this doesn't totally excuse our form but it is a factor. Therefore, Rafa, for the most, retains support among the fans. Allied to this, the underlying issues behind the scenes seriously muddy the whater, we are very wary of the Americans and many believe Rafa is not operating on an even playing field when compared with other clubs; his hads may be tied so to speak.
Thus, the fact remains, Rafa has the majority of the support!
However, pick up a paper, particularly the rags and every other game is a "must-win" game, his job is on the line etc.... There is very little mention of Rafa's work with the academy, his new contract or any of these elements that suggest there is finally a solid base for long term gain. It's lazy journalism, it's juicy and Rafa's (for lack of a better word) thorny personality make him an easy target.
One other thing; Liverpool F.C., more than any other club, seem to have a lot of very opinionated ex-pros ready and willing to offer a soundbeat to any microphone thrust in front of him! Ronnie Whelan was at it here on irish tv the other evening and there are others as well! Even plebs like Cascarino, never good enough for this club, throw the boot in any chance they get. I may be stretching a tad but a lot of these punditries may be traced back to when these people were growing up in the '70s/80s and we were up on a perch ready to be knocked!
Please, don't let us fall into the trap of believing everything we read, hear on sky sports. Think about it objectively. Have we improved since Houllier? Have we closed the gap with the top? Do we have faith in Rafa to get us thru this current malaise?
My tuppence worth...I'm keeping the faith!!
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
I don't read rags, I want Rafa to stay.
I've never bought a newspaper for myself, I read, on average, one newspaper a year and I barely use their online websites.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
I think they're both pretty good.
To start off Wenger had a lot of money to spend to catch up with United.
He spent big on bergkamp, pires. Henry, viera, overmars, reyes etc etc.
While he built the nucleus with hard cash he abandoned this method when his youth structure began to bare the fruits of wengers work. It took a few years to get to that point.
No matter how good Arsenal can play and how much the media cream over them since he went all youth he has won sweet **** all in 4 years with them. Hell even that shit Rafa Benitez put them out of the champions league and has now overtaken them in the league.
For every Anelka (making 20m profit) there's a Francis Jeffers ( haha). at 9.5 million.
As for Rafa he's had some poor buys but when he spends big he gets it right.
Only problem is he's got to sell to buy now so we're stagnating.
Problem we're also stuck with the players that's not performing because if we sell these there's no guarantee rafa will see the money from the sales with those leaches taking every dime to service the debt they've put us in.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
Toward the end of last season when the team were at 1 together and they were clicking we were unstoppable. We tore every team apart.
Might not have been as pretty as the arse with their little triangles but we were the team scorng the most goals and we were frightening. It gave us a glimpse of what Rafa is trying to bring us.
Don't deny that our football is boring when we are on fire.
I don't care what those idiots in the press and on the radio say.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
He didn't sign Bergkamp.
No, there isn't a Jeffers for every Anelka. For every Anelka, there is a Henry, a Pires, a van Persie and a Fabregas. Jeffers is one of Wenger's worst buys, but is he any worse than Babel for us or Keane?
Rafa hasn't won anything for the past three years, at least Wenger can use the 'in transition' excuse, I feel, at the moment, like we've gone backwards, back into another transition, just like 06/07.
Wenger, for me, has been vastly superior to Rafa in the transfer market. If Wenger had Rafa's tactical nous and was a little more disciplined in his tactics and formations, he'd probably have had a bit more success in recent years, especially 07/08.
Right, this is a point I want to find information about, instead of actually debate, as for me, it isn't clear what's gone on. What is this talk of the Americans taking Rafa's money from player sales?
From what I understand, it comes after Rafa sold Xabi for £30m, but only got E20m of that to spend on Aquilani, whilst he also only spent £1.5m on Kyrgiakos. However, how true this is, I do not know, didn't Purslow say the majority of the money was used on renewing contracts?
I thought it was a bit of bull myself, I thought the Americans just thought "he's replaced the player with a cheaper one, we'll have that straight to the bank" however, that is merely speculation, do we go off the speculation or the apparent facts (comparing money spent on transfer fees to money made from selling players), or do we go off the words of Purslow?
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
Ok scratch bergkamp
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
ah good ol jeffers.. couldnt help but laugh at that one..
Cant help but point out that most of these big signings turned out to be successes.
We on the other hand spent 6million on pennant, 11.5 on babel, 7million on dossena.. these are cheap signings right.. I still dont think they have the right to play that badly..
And secondly am i the only one who wishes that we could play beautiful attractive football, completely outplay lesser teams and not have to labour though matches with small teams? I have seen this far too many times in the last few years and this didnt start with rafa. It goes for some time back now.
My problem is that for now we have rafa at the helms. Its nothing personal, but he's the one buying players or choosing tactics right? How many times have we scored one and then try hang on to the 1-0 score, with desperate defending and playing as if a shadow of the same team who scored the first goal in the first place? Who issues instruction from the touchline?
I feel the team plays with too much tactical constraint. Rafa is a master tactician, but in my opinion, he overdoes it.. Jus watch how many hand gestures he does during games.. At risk of repeating myself, I would have to say it shoulnt require 'that much tactics' for a liverpool team to beat a bolton or a sunderland. We even struggled to beat leeds FFS..
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
You can't be serious about Toure, Flamini and Eboue. Flamini is like Lucas in my book. It would be a better debate if you would have put Sol Campbell and Lauren would have been much better.
Re: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club
Flamini, for me, was an excellent player. If he didn't get injured in the 4-2, I feel they would have won that game quite comfortably. For me, he was one of the best midfielders in England in 07/08, an absolute monster who had an underrated passing game.
Kolo Toure was a quality signing, signed for what, £150k? Sold for £14m? Was a regular in the 'invincibles' and gave more than great service in his time there, put it this way; how many defenders have we signed for £150k then sold for nearly 100x that?
Eboue is a personal favourite to be honest. I like him, I think he's a top right back and a pretty average player anywhere else. I'd have him at our club to play right back or fill in across the midfield if needs be. In my opinion, he's better than Babel as a winger.
But as you say, add Sol Campbell in there or Lauren, or Adebayor.
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