A big summer ahead, or is it...........

Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by Nevoo34, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. Mascot88

    Mascot88 Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders Moderator

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    Thought Curbishley was under consideration, but Gerrard and Carra put Hodgson's hat in the ring? Just going on rumours at the time - I don't think anything has been confirmed either way.
     
  2. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    I don't remember Hodgson's name coming up then (at the time he'd have been coming off a stint managing the UAE side, so not sure how much he'd have been on anyone's radar), but I do remember them backing Curbs for the job. The saddest part is it didn't sound an entirely ridiculous option back then. Was over the moon with Rafa, though.
     
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  3. Hope in your heart

    Hope in your heart Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts... Admin

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    Probably that they shouldn't be allowed to take on any key role within the club for a good while yet.
     
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  4. Mascot88

    Mascot88 Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders Moderator

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    Nah, Hodgson had just taken Fulham to the Europa league final. The press were even more up his arse than usual.

    The Owl was managing UEA a few years earlier than that - I'm pretty sure he was doing that prior to Rafa coming here, and then bounced around the Scandinavian league for a few years before turning up at Fulham, where getting 1.5 points a game and shouting 'shape!' a lot got him noticed by Dumb and Dumber.

    EDIT: Ignore me - you're on about the Houllier to Rafa transition. My mistake.
     
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  5. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    Are we talking at cross-purposes over which period we're talking about? I'm talking about when Houllier went and Rafa was hired in 2004, that was when Carra and Gerrard wanted Curbs. Hodgson was with UAE until 2004.

    When Rafa went and Hodgson came in, Carra and Gerrard were fully on the Woy bandwagon then, yes.
     
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  6. Mascot88

    Mascot88 Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders Moderator

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    Yeah, I know - I realised that just after I posted. Apologies. I was originally on about when Rafa was sacked and they are rumoured to have pushed for Uncle Woy, even though Kenny had put his hat in the ring by that point.

    I remember Pelligrini was unemployed at the time, and supposedly interested, which makes appointing the Jowly Owl even more absurd.
     
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  7. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    Pellegrini was ruled out because the players wanted an English manager.
     
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  8. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    Woys English not the best though.
     
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  9. Arminius

    Arminius FSG PR plant Moderator

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    To be fair, Carra's can be hard to understand at times too.
     
  10. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    You are too kind my friend, way too kind....
     
  11. richieh10

    richieh10 Member

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    Sell

    Manniger
    Sakho
    Moreno
    Lucas
    Flannigan

    Stewart

    Sturridge

    60 million


    Buy

    Sessegnon (Fulham)

    VVD (Southampton)

    Brandt (Leverkusen)

    Mbappe (Monaco)

    120-140 million
     
  12. Ʒan

    Ʒan Well-Known Member

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    Let me counteract your 'what if' scenario with one of my own. What if we went and got Sturridge instead of Carroll and him leading the line resulted in his body breaking down earlier than it did due to the extra attention he received from being our main forward? What if we brought him over too early, skipping over that little spell with Chelsea that may have been a good building block for his career, and he ended up a Balotelli-sized flop because of this as he was unable to cope with the LFC pressure?
     
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  13. Celtic Dragon

    Celtic Dragon TIA's Tusken Druid Valued Member

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    You guys are right of course. I wasn't thinking squarely when I wrote that post. My apologies.
     
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  14. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Your apology is quite unnecessary mate.
     
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  15. redwhiteley7

    redwhiteley7 New Member

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    So, then.As I was saying, Rafa inherited a pretty good squad.And,with a couple of quality additions really made the most of it in that first season.That first transfer window(summer 99) with Houllier will take some beating and set the spine for quite a few years.Given that we need some remedying and I would say we never really successfully replaced Hyypia,I am expecting big things from Klopp this summer.He just has to pull a couple of rabbits out of the hat that are a bit more impressive than Klavan. Otherwise, I'll start to get a bit concerned as the clock is ticking,end of next season will be his third season.Was there a scout at Dortmund we should have brought over with him and the Brain?World class managers can get world class players but they still need some help in the scouting department,or do they?
     
  16. NickF

    NickF Well-Known Member

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    I'd love this scenario but I think we'd really struggle to get Mbappe
     
  17. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    Rafa had no control at all when it comes down to our youth teams. That was his biggest problem and he battled Gillett and Hicks for years until he got that control. The first player he signed after he won that battle was Sterling. He was forced to sign youth team players and use them as first team squad players or else the players could be sold and he could do nothing to stop them leaving.

    The best option for the players may have been to play for our youth teams but that wasn't an option because of Gillett and Hicks.
     
  18. ubermick

    ubermick Willing to drive Moreno to the airport Admin

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    That's inherently untrue. Rafa didn't get FULL control of the academy until 2009, but to say he had none at all prior to that is incorrect. Sterling was signed in February of 2010, and prior to that Rafa had packed the academy with Spanish prospects like Pacheco, Insua, Mikel, and plenty more from around Europe like El Zhar, Nemeth, and Della Valle.
     
  19. redbj

    redbj crowd fund for you to shut up give me the details

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    did someone say....Pacheco.....


    theres still time?....right????
     
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  20. StrongINTheAir

    StrongINTheAir The voice of reason

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    Maybe we can target some non-English players this summer?
    Hold on, that's not a slam against their ability.
    I'm just tired of having Liverpool players get injured on England National Team duty.
     
  21. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    A Logical Outlook for this Summers Transfer Window

    Likely Sales
    (values from transfermarkt which usually under-estimates):
    - Bogdan: £0.85m
    - Moreno: £8.5m
    - Sturridge: £18.7m
    - Randall: £0.5m
    Total: £28.5m

    Loanees likely to be sold:
    - Sakho: £8.5m (LFC reportedly want £20m)
    - Wisdom: £1.7m
    - Markovic: £8.5m
    Total: £18.7m (or factoring in £20m for Sakho = £30.2m)

    Expiring Contract
    - Lucas: Would leave on a free

    Other loanees (likely to be loaned again)
    Loan: Ward, Fulton, Kent, Flanagan, Allan, Awoniyi, Chirivella, Brannagan, Dunn

    2017/18 Projected Squad
    The moves above would leave the squad for 2017/18 like this (with the minimum expected places for likely incoming signings in bold):

    -------------- Karius
    ------------- Mignolet

    Clyne -- Matip --- CB ----- LB
    Trent -- Lovren -- Klavan -- Milner
    ---------- Gomez

    ------------ Henderson
    --------------- DM*
    -------------- Stewart

    --------- Lallana -- Wijnaldum
    ---------- CM --- Can
    ---------- Grujic --- Ejaria

    Mané --------------------- Coutinho
    RW --------------------- Woodburn
    Wilson ------------------- Ojo
    ------------ Firmino
    ------------ Origi
    ------------ Ings

    Transfers In

    Last summer Klopp signed Karius (£4.7m), Matip (free), Wijnaldum (£25m), Mané (£30m) - all of whom went into the first XI. Klavan (£5m) and Manninger (free) were signed for depth.

    That suggests that Klopp will continue to sign players primarily for his first XI rather than for depth, and judging by the squad needs I think it's entirely realistic to expect the following:

    LB: First XI LB
    CB: First XI CB to partner Matip
    *DM: If Lucas leaves, get a new DM to compete with Henderson/Can
    CM: A first XI calibre and versatile midfielder who shares Lallana's dynamism
    RW: A first XI calibre RW/LW who can compete with Coutinho and Mané for starts.

    The forward positions are still a little bit light, given that the change is basically Sturridge>new RW.

    That said, replacing Sturridge with a less injury prone player is already an addition, particularly as ST>RW addresses the balance issue; and Woodburn, Wilson, Ojo, Kent, and Origi will all be a year older, not to mention that Ings will be back from injury (big question marks about him though).

    Nonetheless, it wouldn't surprise me to see another striker brought in as well.

    Budgets / Potential Signings

    As outlined above (based on transfermarkt valuations), likely incoming from sales of Bogdan, Randall, Moreno, Sturridge; plus Sakho, Wisdom, Markovic = £47.2m (£58.7 if £20m for Sakho is received).

    Again, that figure is based on transfermarkt valuations which are usually very conservative.

    Considering that the club were negative spenders last summer (-£14.5m) and didn't spend anything in January, the noise coming from Paul Joyce that this summer could feature a big expenditure would make sense as the money is certainly there, particularly when you factor in potential CL money.

    Effectively, if the player sales listed above do materialize at about the total valuations of ~£47m, the club could effectively buy two £25m players before even pushing the boat out with any additional money.

    For example, that could be £25m on Brandt and £25m on a CM, leaving whatever the rest of the budget is to solve the CB, LB, and DM positions.

    Needless to say, there really shouldn't be any reason why the club can't offer top money for the very top targets, like Van Dijk, James Rodriguez, Brandt, etc.

    Something along the lines of this, which is an expenditure of £155m, which minus the incoming ~£50m is a net spend of £105m:
    • £40m - Van Dijk (CB)
    • £25m - Brandt (LW)
    • £50m - Rodriguez (CM/RW)
    • £20m - LB
    • £20M - DM
    A net spend of £105m seems more than reasonable for a club with ambitions in the CL that has also essentially saved up last summers transfer budget too, as per the net spend last year (from skysports):

    Summer 2016 net spend:
    • Man City: £169m
    • Man Utd: £141m
    • Chelsea: £98m
    • Arsenal: £82m
    • Spurs: £30m
    • Liverpool: negative £15m
    If Liverpool and FSG want to compete at the top then it's time to push the boat out and start matching the ambition of the other top clubs, particularly at a time when Arsenal and United are going through tricky times.

    Summary

    That's all well and good, but there still remains one big question that needs to be asked:

    Can Liverpool attract the top tier of talents?

    You'd certainly hope so given that the club is
    • looking likely to be back in the Champions League,
    • in financially good health,
    • has a proven manager like Klopp in charge, and
    • has a great record against top PL sides this season (i.e. going undefeated against Top 10 sides) which is strongly suggestive that the team is capable of challenging in Europe too, which will surely be attractive to any incoming targets.
    Just imagine fielding a lineup like this...

    Starting XI: Mignolet; Clyne, Matip, Van Dijk, New LB; Henderson, Lallana, Rodriguez; Mané, Coutinho, Firmino

    Bench: Karius, Lovren, Milner, Can, Wijnaldum, Brandt, Origi
    In reserve: Klavan, Gomez, Trent, Grujic, Lucas/New DM, Stewart, Wilson, Woodburn, Ejaria, Ojo, Ings

    All-in-all, plenty to be excited about, as it seems as if the club - and squad - is finally in a position to have genuine star quality added to it (i.e. quality over quantity, rather than just numbers) to start competing for trophies again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
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