Anfield Expansion - Main Stand and potential Anfield Road End

Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by liveforthereds, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

    Messages:
    7,853
    Likes Received:
    4,019
    You cant force the freeze, the club has to agree to do this, but why would they?

    How much money do you think fans, especially those living in Liverpool, earn? How many are going with (and are financially responsible for) family?

    If banks think there is a risk, they are likely to increase interest rates offered, not reduce them - which either leaves the fan more out of pocket now, or less likely to take the club up on its offer. Fans struggling to continue paying the loans wont be pretty, and if the solution is that the club buy the ticket back, the fan has lost his chance to watch the team while the club pays a higher interest rate.

    Setting a price in stone now reduces the clubs income over the next 10 years. Prices of everything the club is buying will rise over the next 10 years, but you have just suggested that the club fixes one of it's sources of income during that same period, meaning the club will have difficulty investing during that period - i.e facilities or playing squad while other clubs revenue from ticket prices increase.
     
  2. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

    Messages:
    6,009
    Likes Received:
    9,212
    Fans are already able to borrow at 0% interest through Zebra finance to pay for their season ticket. Why would the club want to freeze the cost of a season ticket for 10 years and that at a 10% discount at today's prices?

    Under your proposal a fan would end up paying nearly twice the cost of a full price season ticket in the first year - why would they do that if money was already tight?
     
    Lowton_Red and redfanman like this.
  3. Woolyred

    Woolyred New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    5
    Yes, because we all so gleefully accepted the ticket price increase that was suggested last time. So the chances of any meaningful increases over that 10 year period are limited. They will not lose any significant amount of revenue from any increases that they may have wanted from those 10,000 season tickets.

    The freeze only applies to 10,000, so under 20% of the total capacity.

    They have are not servicing a debt for 10 years and paying interest. They will save more on interest that than they would on ticket increases (which might just about cover the same). Part of the reason why they will not go ahead now is it will take 15 years to pay back the cost without seeing any return in that period. This way they see an instant return and more than they would hope to see from ticket price increases (which nobody would pay because Liverpool can not afford then according to you).

    Other deals are fixed, so naming rights for the stand will be 10 years. It gives certainty of revenue.


    The longer it is delayed the more the price of building it will go up.
     
  4. Woolyred

    Woolyred New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    5
    For the reasons stated. They get a stand built with an instant return and no debt to service.

    Well increase the term of the loan then to 10 years. That works better... if someone had the ticket for 6 years and then wanted to club to take it back.. and offered you what was left on the loan, you would have paid of the loan already if the length of the loan did not match the length you held the season ticket...

    I am not saying I have worked out every nuance of this but it is better than having no stand at all. In the end who do you think will pay for it anyway... yes, the fans.
     
  5. Matt

    Matt Poor Scouser Tommy Admin

    Messages:
    8,790
    Likes Received:
    1,564
  6. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

    Messages:
    7,853
    Likes Received:
    4,019
    They dont see an instant return. That money goes direct to the builders upfront, so for the 10 years, there is no money from those ticket sales going to the club. Instead the banks make money servicing the loans and therefore reducing the money fans have available to spend as they are paying around £250 a year in interest before any capital is repaid. (3.5% of 7200 = £252), So, in the first year they are paying approximately £1050 for an £800 season ticket. Thats the sort of figure that was doing the rounds when fans were up in arms over price increases.

    The club will lose significant revenue. There isnt any ticket money coming into the club from those 20% of seats (in your earlier post you also suggested that the clubcould widen the offer to include all seating areas) for 10 years. Any extra staff needed for taking care of the additional seating areas adds to the running costs, again less money for the club to invest.

    During those 10 years, running costs are going to be increasing at least the rate of inflation. Where is that money going to come from? How will other Liverpool fans if they do not get the same offer going to feel?

    We havent sold naming rights to other stands, so there is no guarentee that it will be sold for ARD and therefore is no guarentee of revenue. If the club were confident they could have sold naming rights, then i'm sure it would have already been given the go ahead by the board.

    Across the ten year period, tickets are more likely to be affordable for people even if those tickets are increasing at a reasonable rate than they are if bought up front in year one by a loan because hopefully their incomes will be rising too - and the additional cost of the ticket goes into the clubs pockets, not the banks.

    The club are still looking at making ARD work, it hasnt been ruled out yet. Your solution isnt the answer.
     
    inaiq likes this.
  7. Woolyred

    Woolyred New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    5
     
  8. Woolyred

    Woolyred New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    5
    It is a club run scheme, so nobody was forcing anyone to do anything. They agree to it as it is in their financial interests to do. They get an instant return on the infrastructure that is put in place i.e. a new ARE. The capacity is increased of that stand by say 7,000. They are 7000 x £35 (or whatever a ticket costs) x 25 games better off = £6.1 mill per annum better off. They do not have to pay interest on loans which is dead money.

    If they sold the club, they have an asset that has been paid for already and therefore any sale price would be increased. There would be no debt on the club for the asset. They would be enjoying increased revenue from the asset and more revenue means the club commands a higher value in the market.


    How much money do you think fans, especially those living in Liverpool, earn? How many are going with (and are financially responsible for) family?

    Enough to pay for whatever they pay for a season ticket now per year. They still pay for a ticket now, family or no family. The cost is 10% less than they pay now. They know the price will not go up for 10 years. They know they can sell it back to the club after 3 years. They are paying the price over 5 years, or whatever loan agreement is agreed, it could be 10 years... so the only potential increase is the 3% interest each year they pay no more tha they pay for a ticket now - which they can afford and they save 10% on overall price so they are better off than buying a ticket year on year.

    If banks think there is a risk, they are likely to increase interest rates offered, not reduce them - which either leaves the fan more out of pocket now, or less likely to take the club up on its offer. Fans struggling to continue paying the loans wont be pretty, and if the solution is that the club buy the ticket back, the fan has lost his chance to watch the team while the club pays a higher interest rate.

    The banks will increase the cost of interest for a loan made to the club if they think the club might not sell out the ground and might not raise the revenue to pay off the loans (in addition to the other loans they have). The more loans the club takes on the greater risk. This scheme removes the risk from the club and dilutes it 10,000 ways in small personal loans. I dont know how people pay for season tickets now but I expect most go on credit cards and are paid off over 12 months (add 12% or more interest whatever credit card loan rates are now).

    Fans will do what they do now and sell the ticket to someone else, the club could a process in place to assist with this. I am sorry but Liverpool and the poeple of Liverpool are not as destitute as you make it out to be. Bear in mind there are still 50,000 other tickets available (so still more than for the last 20 years). If the fan can not afford the loan repayments then I doubt he will be buying individual tickets. There are 25,000 people on the list, there are 10s of thousands not on it, there will no shortage of people to take tickets off people who for whatever reason have hit hard times.


    Setting a price in stone now reduces the clubs income over the next 10 years. Prices of everything the club is buying will rise over the next 10 years, but you have just suggested that the club fixes one of it's sources of income during that same period, meaning the club will have difficulty investing during that period - i.e facilities or playing squad while other clubs revenue from ticket prices increase.
     
  9. Livvy

    Livvy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    1,974
  10. Hope in your heart

    Hope in your heart Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts... Admin

    Messages:
    19,395
    Likes Received:
    12,445
    Nothing special, but it's good to know that this phase is now over, and the main stand fully completed. Now on to the next! :-)
     
    redfanman likes this.
  11. Maria

    Maria The Misfit one

    Messages:
    8,618
    Likes Received:
    6,561
    Quick question. In the new dressing room, there is a sort of table in the middle with two squares cut out at each end.
    What are they for?
     
  12. Cologne-Liverpool

    Cologne-Liverpool Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,390
    Likes Received:
    3,111
    Round pegs in square holes?
     
  13. Maria

    Maria The Misfit one

    Messages:
    8,618
    Likes Received:
    6,561
    No, I am serious mate. Its driving me mad. What is it ? It looks like two square holes.:?:. I never seen anything like that in a club dressing room.
     
    Cologne-Liverpool likes this.
  14. Cologne-Liverpool

    Cologne-Liverpool Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,390
    Likes Received:
    3,111
    Beverages? Dirty laundry?
    Great, thanks Maria, now it's starting to drive me mad as well:?:;-)
     
    Maria likes this.
  15. StrongINTheAir

    StrongINTheAir The voice of reason

    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    652
    I don't mean to be a wet noodle about it, and maybe they didn't show a whole lot of it, but honestly I thought the new locker was rather vanilla.
    And I read a one of the comments about it and the person was going on about pampered players etc.
    to be truthful, I've seen much, much better lockers (by comparison to what I've seen from this, there could be more?).
    In fact, here is a video from the University of Nebraska (American college) football locker room and player lounge.
    This is first class, and is the definition of amenities. And I know these abound in top colleges throughout the US for their programs.
     
    Maria likes this.
  16. Maria

    Maria The Misfit one

    Messages:
    8,618
    Likes Received:
    6,561
    I thought, it might a laptop screen, then it didn't make sense, then I thought laundry, but then, how are the laundry guys going collect the laundry, there is no side door, you know what I mean!
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  17. StrongINTheAir

    StrongINTheAir The voice of reason

    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    652
    Laundry hampers would've been my first guess, maybe trash as well?
     
  18. Maria

    Maria The Misfit one

    Messages:
    8,618
    Likes Received:
    6,561
    OMG! They even have their own lounge and snooker table. It looks more like a an upscale/ luxutious pub/winebar. The locker room is massive! They even have their own ipads and tv and can watch films and read books. Its astonishing, I would stay in there and play snooker and not go on the pitch.lol
     
  19. Maria

    Maria The Misfit one

    Messages:
    8,618
    Likes Received:
    6,561
    How are they getting the rubbish out? It is in an awkward position.
     
    Cologne-Liverpool likes this.
  20. hugo the horrible

    hugo the horrible Ridiculously optimistic.

    Messages:
    2,731
    Likes Received:
    873
    Bin for those who don't perform:J
     
    Hope in your heart and Maria like this.
  21. StrongINTheAir

    StrongINTheAir The voice of reason

    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    652
    Pretty nice locker set up for 100 players, for 7 home games a season in front of 90,000+ each game.
    All for 18-22 year old university kids.
    I got a special tour there last Fall, you should see the weight room, trophy room, and dining area.
    As classy as that lounge and locker room were, the weight room is massive and the cafeteria is almost 5 star.
     
    redfanman and Maria like this.
  22. StrongINTheAir

    StrongINTheAir The voice of reason

    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    652
    Looks like we aren't expecting many to fall in that category going forward.
     
  23. StrongINTheAir

    StrongINTheAir The voice of reason

    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    652
    Maybe they tunneled a chute to Goodison Park for the rubbish to end up at?
     
  24. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    15,389
    Did Lucas dump Kev Stewart's body in one of them? It would explain a few selections...
     
  25. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

    Messages:
    11,059
    Likes Received:
    11,476
    @Maria

    I've got no idea what they're for. Maybe they're the laundry baskets, for the players to throw their kit in after the game?
     
  26. Maria

    Maria The Misfit one

    Messages:
    8,618
    Likes Received:
    6,561
    Cheers @ILLOK,
    It looks odd for the laundry baskets to be situated the middle of the table there. It was just bugging me last night.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  27. football.tiger

    football.tiger TIA Squad Member

    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    463
    @Maria : I think they might be LCD screens for replays, show players tactical changes one-on-one etc...
     
    Maria likes this.
  28. Maria

    Maria The Misfit one

    Messages:
    8,618
    Likes Received:
    6,561
    Ahaaa! This may solve the mystery. All I need is any of you who knows the tea lady who goes in there to confirm this. Cheers, thanks football tiger!
     
    redfanman and football.tiger like this.
  29. hugo the horrible

    hugo the horrible Ridiculously optimistic.

    Messages:
    2,731
    Likes Received:
    873
    Certainly not after the Everton game!
     
    StrongINTheAir likes this.
  30. Woolyred

    Woolyred New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    5
    It is for the dirty kit/laundry
     

Share This Page