Discussion in 'European Football' started by RedCanuck099, Sep 2, 2014.
Oh I remember that....it was depressing shit.
Watching Holland 'play' football makes me appreciate what we have at our club. Unbelievable how shit they are in all departments from the goalkeeper all up to the manc attacking prodigies of van Persie and Depay. Couple that with a manager who is even more backward thinking than Hodgson and you have a real recipe for success.
Koeman should have been appointed, not the very ageing Hiddink and certainly not the nobody that is Danny Blind. But even then, you have maybe 2~3 players worthy of the shirt, 5~6 very young players and very few 24~28 y.o.'s.
It's just a very bad time for Holland now ...but I would still have expected an easy qualification to the Final tournament. If Northern Ireland, Wales and Albania could ace it ...then who should not?
I would hope that heads will now roll aka van Oostveen at the KNVB (...and he should be sacked tomorrow IMO). He just must be sacked very quickly. Not any quick fix though, as Holland have nothing coming through (qua youth etc) for maybe another 6~8 years now. It will just take a very long time to address this stuff.
Looking at Holland's squad, it's as bad as I can ever remember it. One elite player who is injured too often, and either old timers or very inexperienced players at this level. In a tough group I'm not shocked they've completely failed.
I agree the players aren't great, but they're not being helped by the terrible tactics. Personally I'd say they need a foreign manager, something I doubt will ever happen but a fresh set of idea's is exactly what dutch football needs. They keep holding on to the 433 from the 70's, with two true wingers swinging crosses in front of the goal. Pointless.They also refuse to acknowledge that defending is something which can be improved on by working and training as a team. Instead the attitude is 'dutch teams cannot defend', which is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Major problem is the fact the generation which is currently entering their prime is quite shit. Wijnaldum, Luuk & Siem de Jong, Anita, van der Wiel, Lens, Narsingh, Bruma, Affelay... They should form the core of the squad, but none of them are good enough to build something with, at best they should be squad players. Daley Blind is the only exception of this generation. This leaves us with the ageing great players (Sneijder, van Persie, Hunterlaar all fell off the cliff, van der Vaart fell off Mount Everest), a genuine world class player in Robben but always injured. The young generation is showing promise, Tete, Riedewald, El Ghazi but I don't think there's any potential stars amongst them, merely very good players. The future indeed looks bleak in terms of talent, which makes it all the more important to appoint a good manager.
They actually lack players with intelligence. Look at their best group of players, Van der Vaart, Sneijder, Robben, van Persie, they are all players with brains. And you look at them now, with De Pay not knowing when to put the ball in the box, make runs and passes. They might need to do what the Germans did 10 years ago which produces another batch of great young talents.
They are still using players sent to Turkish league for god sake.
Agreed that they need to perform a total rebuild, from the grounds up. Start looking to the future instead of clinging on to increasingly ancient traditions.Unfortunately the will to do that is currently lacking, who knows what might happen after this evening though. They haven't qualified and it's been utterly deserved.
At least one of those turkish players has now scored. Shame he has forgotten which goal the ball belongs in.
Dutch side is an abomination. Thing is once robben, rvp and Schneider retire it's probably only going to get worse
Depay the only young player that seems to have any semblance of talent and defence is full of trash that even Southampton or Brendan Rodgers wouldn't buy
Low population and a league which is becoming a basket case as well, could be a long way back for them. Like it was between 78-88 but worse
Basically Netherlands have no depth. A great starting 11 (when healthy), but that's it. If they get injuries, they look terribly average.
Oh well RVP o.g. is freaking hiarious through
Unfortunately for the Dutch, but their world cup quailfying group isn't easy either
I can't say that I will lament the absence of Holland at the Euros too much. I know that it is like Christmas without presents, but I thought their behavior at the World Cup was questionable to say the least. Some great talents, but a team half full of cheats and drama boys.
Shame Turkey couldn't draw as I think that would have put Hungary through
The dutch were shot down..they are out..but what a complete mess..going 0-3 down before they put anything worth a fight back in order to bring it back to 2-3....they don't deserve to go through and I am glad other teams got the opportunity to do so at their expense.
Yeah thought the same when I saw the score, I thought they don't even care.
That was a close one for Croatia. Norway were actually leading in Italy while our performance/result in Malta wasn't convincing as you'd expect. Nervy times. Promising start to the qualifiers, but a couple of events with fans & their ban, a bad performance or two (the defeat in Norway) and the players not happy under a strict regime resulted in change of coach (+ new guy who took over not really a favourite among the majority) and almost not qualifying. Some key players like Srna and Mandzukic were in absolutely poor form lately while we again struggled to find the right combination to get the best out of both Modric & Rakitic (though Modric is more consistent while Rakitic does it more in flashes). Kovacic now gets more minutes in one of the two deeper positions for club & country so that may be the new way to field that trio together. Perisic is our best performer for a while now and there's a young wide forward Pjaca who might be Dinamo Zagreb's next 'big' sale. He will probably be a regular starter now together with Perisic on the sides. Made it in the end, but this latter period was really one to forget and turn towards improving.
The playoff rounds seem evenly matched for evey tie
Potentially...but it will be interesting to see who falters and who does make it into EURO 2016....will we get good match's or will teams be so scared to make a mistake that we get cautious football....boring football...and a lack of goals. And european bravado!
Draw on Sunday, 1120 CET for the play-offs:
Seeded teams: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Ukraine, Sweden, Hungary
Unseeded teams: Denmark, Republic of Ireland, Norway, Slovenia
Each fixture will see a seeded team play against a non-seeded team.
When are the play-off ties?
First legs: 12/13/14 November 2015
Second legs: 15/16/17 November 2015
Coefficients of teams qualified for the final tournament
France (33.599) – guaranteed in Group A, position 1 as hosts
Spain (37.962) – guaranteed in Pot 1 as holders
Germany (40.236) – Pot 1
England (35.963) – Pot 1
Portugal (35.138) – Pot 1
Belgium (34.442) – Pot 1
Italy (34.345) – Pot 2
Russia (31.345) – Pot 2
Switzerland (31.254) – Pot 2
Austria (30.932) – Pot 2
Croatia (30.642) – Pot 2
Czech Republic (29.403) – tbc
Poland (28.306) – tbc
Romania (28.038) – tbc
Slovakia (27.171) – tbc
Turkey (27.033) – tbc
Iceland (25.388) – Pot 4
Wales (24.531) – Pot 4
Albania (23.216) – Pot 4
Northern Ireland (22.61) – Pot 4
Coefficients of teams in play-offs
Bosnia and Herzegovina (30.367) – seeded
Ukraine (30.313) – seeded
Sweden (29.028) – seeded
Hungary (27.142) – seeded
Denmark (27.140) – unseeded
Republic of Ireland (26.902) – unseeded
Norway (26.439) – unseeded
Slovenia (25.441) – unseeded
I was hoping we could hold on in Rome, but as soon as the equaliser came it was very clear we didn't have a chance. Italy were simply much better than us from start to finish, and should have scored at least two more goals. On paper - in terms of the names - this was a fairly ordinary Italian team I hoped we could compete with and keep them quiet, but collectively they were really good. Really solid at the back with that quartet from Juve and Darmian+De Sciglio on the flanks, and going forward they kept it very simple and sensible - but with really good quality. Combinations, one-touch passes, setting up Florenzi for his excellent crosses; and Norway just couldn't quite keep up with the tempo. Very deserved win for Italy.
Pity for us, but as a football fan I'm always happy to see the best teams qualified. Then we'll see what we can do in the play-off. We can definitely beat Hungary, and with a good slice of luck maybe also Sweden; but the other two teams should be too strong for us over two games. Especially Ukraine, who apparently were impressive against Spain (De Gea at it again).
Always interesting to see what Croatia can do once a tournament starts. A lot of quality there, although maybe a bit so-so in defence at the moment? With everyone injury-free and with a decent draw, it's always a team that have the potential to get to a quarter-final.
Yeah, offensively on paper, Italy didn't look great, but it looks like they showed their professional side. Not seen B&H play since the WC, but I'd give Norway a certain chance even against them. B&H are pretty inconsistent (many are at this level apart the top ones, but they can really variate from looking poor/badly organized to a bit wild but surprisingly good & fun the odd time if they pull together) and they can be their worst enemies in key moments. It really depends what version steps out on the pitch.
Croatia has a couple of problems to solve. Defensively, both full back positions are a worry. Srna's been having a difficult period like Ivanovic (though Srna was never really at his level, but having similar defensive problems now). At left back we either have an offensive option like Pranjic (plays mostly in midfield at club level now) for smaller opponents, or unspectacular/unproven/lacking quality names like Leovac (PAOK) and Pivaric (Dinamo Z.). Strinic is solid and would probably still be first choice, but had a problem with the last coach and isn't first choice at Napoli, so who knows what happens there. Vrsaljko is a decent first backup for both sides and he will probably takeover at RB when Srna calls his time after this competition. Corluka plays with a bit more urgency now while Lovren will still be 3rd choice (if nothing spectacular happens at LFC!).
Collective performance, work on a quicker and more simpler game, have a clearer idea between the 3 main guys in midfield (good depth here). We have a pair on the sides who can beat a man/penetrate/get in behind to score so that's a progress from times when Kranjcar, Rakitic and even Olic played out wide. Up front, Mandzukic will still be first choice in terms of overall quality, but is out injured & lacks form, needs to at least get back to his old self, not try and act like he's a "classy striker" and forget to run & fight inside the box (which is what he does best). He really needs to be 100% with his approach if he wants to be successful at a Juventus-level club, no other way. You'd think he would catch at least some normal form as the season goes on. Nothing special in backup though + they're all a bit similar & slow considering we have midfielders who love playing into space. Kramaric, actually a decent finisher for a mid-table but needs more creative side, struggles to make the bench at Leicester under Ranieri (probably a wrong match + they have a hard working duo in Okazaki & Vardy, while Ulloa is still there so he might be looking for a change in one of the next 2 windows, maybe in another league). Kalinic, a target man, moved to Fiorentina (finally to a side that plays more football after years of Blackburn & Dnipro), lost 8kg's of weight and is having a good start to the season as their first choice at the moment.
And again, the fans. There might be a boycott from at least one part of the fans, if not half of them, aimed towards the FA. All that creates not a great atmosphere so we'll see what the situation is when the tournament starts.
England are getting Wales or Northern Ireland for sure.
12/13/14 and 15/16/17 November 2015
Ukraine v Slovenia
Sweden v Denmark
Bosnia and Herzegovina v Republic of Ireland
Norway v Hungary
With the play off draw decided who will be going through.
Ukraine, Denmark, Bosnia, Norway.
Denmark, Rep. Ireland, Hungary and Slovenia.
Norway haven't lost to Hungary since 1981 (9 matches). In the battle of two average teams....I think Norway have the upper hand!!!
This is a different Hungarian side..from Hungarian sides of the past...:0
So much for the FIFA ranking system. The top 4 playoff teams are playing against each other.
I'd say Ukraine, Bosnia, Sweden, Norway go through. Hoping for Ireland though.
Hope Ireland and Hungary get through, do Denmark still have a certain Daniel Agger if so choose them also, not fussed about either team in the latter though Slovenia would be different.*
I know potentially I've chosen the 4 that will lose bar Hungary I think they are good enough to make it.
Looks like Hungary we the first of the 4.
Nemeth has just come on.
Separate names with a comma.