Fifa Ban Poppy

Discussion in 'World Football' started by treboeth, Nov 1, 2016.

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  1. hugo the horrible

    hugo the horrible Ridiculously optimistic.

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    Have always been surprised that we have fallen over ourselves to recognise a defeat,and for a long time now except for a very few it is just another holiday.
    Can imagine FIFA's reaction if something related to Anzac Day showed up on our kit.
    FIFA have yet again shown themselves to be a bunch of idiots.
     
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  2. Kaliberbeats

    Kaliberbeats Well-Known Member

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    If you wanna blame anyone then blame the FA. If they just did it and said nothing then nothing would have happened just like Ireland commerating 1916. Instead they had to drag up the 1916 branding just so the Irish FA would be fined. This was all very badly handled.
     
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  3. Arminius

    Arminius FSG PR plant Moderator

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    Associations are supposed to obtain approval for any marks or insignia their representative teams wear. The English FA may not have been aware that the Irish FA had not obtained approval (presumably what happened), given they attempted to use it as a precedent. You can call it a stupid rule, but it is not the English FA's fault for following the proper process - and there is absolutely no way that nothing would have happened. This issue came up six years ago, when FIFA allowed the armbands after initially saying no.
     
  4. Kaliberbeats

    Kaliberbeats Well-Known Member

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    Who called it a stupid rule?

    We wore the 1916 branding last March/April. It was heavily featured in all our news and TV coverage yet FIFA did nothing because we didn't ask so they could happily keep their head buried in the sand. When you ask you force them to act and FIFA hate acting. It's always easier to ask for forgiveness.
     
  5. treboeth

    treboeth Well-Known Member

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    http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37941608

    Fifa has rejected a request from Wales to wear poppies on their shirts or on armbands in Saturday's World Cup qualifier against Serbia.
    Wales will wear black armbands instead, while fans at Cardiff City Stadium will form a poppy mosaic before kick-off.
    Football Association of Wales (FAW) chief executive Jonathan Ford: said "The FAW naturally wishes to respect and honour those who fought and lost their lives fighting for their country.
    "We felt unable to take the risk of a financial penalty or point deduction. However, as we always have done at this time of year, we will be paying our respects in other ways."
    :unhappy:
    Good luck to England and Scotland hope you have more balls than us :unhappy:
     
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  6. DeathOrGlory

    DeathOrGlory Fortune Favours the Brave

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    I could've sworn I saw poppies on the shirts of our players vs Watford.... and also the British Legion had two people dressed as soldiers bring our an oversized poppy onto the pitch before kick off...

    So what's the big deal? Looks like common sense prevailed?
     
  7. treboeth

    treboeth Well-Known Member

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    Our games are covered by the FA.

    Fifa like to lord it over the Internationals.
     
  8. Celtic Dragon

    Celtic Dragon TIA's Tusken Druid Valued Member

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    Yes, they do. And we can be sure of a hammering from FIFA as they will look to make an example of both us and Scotland. Huge fines, points deductions, or both. They won't let us get away with the poppies on the shirts after they have specifically forbade them already.
     
  9. Jase

    Jase Well-Known Member

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    FIFA have a rule that prohibits political symbolism for international games. Disregard it if you want, but be prepared to face punishment, same as any rule or law.

    Is it a stupid rule?.. not imo, there are plenty of other avenues to show support and solidarity for things, and it's not like we haven't already had a huge showing of support via football in that every EPL club (the country that it should matter to most?) had embroidered poppies on their jerseys last weekend.
     
  10. Celtic Dragon

    Celtic Dragon TIA's Tusken Druid Valued Member

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    Not a stupid rule generally, no. But what is stupid is that they are classing the poppy as political symbolism.

    It's not fucking political. It's nothing more than a remembrance symbol.
     
  11. Jase

    Jase Well-Known Member

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    yeah i'm not far from agreeing with you but technically speaking the poppy is symbol of remembrance day, which honours the men and women who died in the allied armed forces, usually in a war, usually with another country.. if it honoured the dead, both armed forces and civilians, and on both sides of all conflicts, then it could be said to be apolitical
     
  12. Division

    Division Member

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    I believe that everyone who appears on TV is expected to wear it.

    Footballers, no matter where they are from, are expected to wear it or face criticism even in mainstream media.

    It should not be mandatory and nobody should have to explain their reasons if they choose not to wear it.
     
  13. StrongINTheAir

    StrongINTheAir The voice of reason

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    How does "commercial" fit into that ban when there are sponsors on shirts?
     
  14. StrongINTheAir

    StrongINTheAir The voice of reason

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    Hey FIFA, don't try to remove the speck from my eye until you remove the plank from yours
     
  15. RedSeven

    RedSeven On the one road Valued Member

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    Wearing a small emblem to commemorate a particular day in a countries history is no worse than listening to a politically and emotionally charged national anthem prior to kick off.
     
  16. treboeth

    treboeth Well-Known Member

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  17. RaoulDuke

    RaoulDuke Wind-Down Merchant

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    http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/38077727

    :rolleyes:




     
  18. Lostmyfunk 3421

    Lostmyfunk 3421 Standing on the verge of getting it on

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    FIFA/UEFA are bunch of evil Nazi supporting gold embessling two faced vindictive bastards. Should all be burnt to the ground by masses. I"m in rage reading this. World War 1 and World War2 are political???? f**!* me!!! Half the kids in the world have no F****ng idea why they are alive in the world they are. Why they have freedoms like football in the first place. This is not political in any way. It our world history. Acknowledged by treaties and alliances ever since. My Grandparents and many others will be disgusted and I hope they have big sh** on the Zurich HQ, because its all dirty rotten power they have. Jules Rimet would be pissed too. What the f***! FIFA, U truly are scum...

    Now I need smoke...Off to the Player Forum.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2016
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  19. Barnestormer

    Barnestormer Left wing.

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    The Fédération Internationale de Football Association (or CUNTs for short), need subverting and replacing.

    Just how they can legitimise this pedantry after their carryings on over the last 10 years is a compete mystery. Tell you what - lets go out wearing brown paper bags and see if they get the message then.

    As an aside rant - however people really think they can have valid political debates nowadays anyway is beyond me - the entire upper echelons of world politics and commerce are corrupt. It really would not surprise me that CUNTs are taking this step simply because to re-assert themselves after #brownbaggate
     
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  20. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    The stance taken by FIFA in relation to the poppies is perverse, particularly when you consider that they have been happy to highlight the match played on Christmas Day in 1914. FIFA and UEFA (as well as some other national associations) even marked the centenary of the occasion...

    http://www.uefa.org/about-uefa/news/newsid=2194933.html

    Fifa have a news article about it

    http://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/news/y=2002/m=6/news=first-world-war-christmas-day-truce-82616.html

    The FA said it was one of the top 10 moments in the history of the game

    http://www.fairplay150.com/

    The PFA commissioned a wonderful sculpture to mark the anniversary

    https://www.thepfa.com/news/2014/12/16/christmas-day-truce-sculpture-unveiled

    In 2013 FIFA produced a video...

    [​IMG] FIFA.com Verified account ‏@FIFAcom
    VIDEO: Learn more about the role football played in the 1914 'Christmas Truce' on this Christmas Day - http://fifa.to/18KUrwM

    (Although the video didn't load for me when I followed the link)

    It even featured in their Weekly magazine, issue of 20 December 2013

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...TfCW64fKowtZOdYlw1bqGA&bvm=bv.139782543,d.ZGg (this ought to open a pdf)

    On page 39 of that magazine is an interesting article on Shankly. Then skip past pages 40 and 41 (quickly) and at page 42 you'll find an interesting article on the Christmas day match. At the outbreak of the first world war, the FIFA congress made the following declaration in favour of peace, "The Congress declares that it wishes to support all actions designed to bring nations together and to replace violence with mediation in settling any disputes there may be between them."

    http://www.fifa.com/news/y=2013/m=12/news=the-christmas-truce-the-power-football-2248071.html

    In the above article about the Christmas Day Truce, written on 24 December 2013, FIFA wrote, "The fraternising took a sporting turn when the opposing soldiers decided to play a football match, with the Germans reportedly winning 2-1 [or 3-2]. Sadly, the unofficial ceasefire was short-lived, and no sooner was Christmas over than the war resumed, the hostilities only coming to an end nearly four years later. However, the powerful symbolism of that impromptu game has lasted far longer."

    You know another powerful symbol of the need to remember all those who have lost their lives, on all sides and in all conflicts...the poppy. You can be certain that the yearly call to remember those lost lives on Armistice Day and the symbolism of the poppy has done (and continues to do) a fuck load more "to bring nations together and to replace violence with mediation in settling any disputes there may be between them" than FIFA or any game of football, no matter how evocative.

    This is not just about a game of football played out in No-Man's land. This is about the sanctity of all human life.
     
  21. treboeth

    treboeth Well-Known Member

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38368144

    Fifa has fined all four home nations for displaying poppies during World Cup qualifiers around Armistice Day.

    England and Scotland players wore armbands featuring the symbol when they met at Wembley on 11 November.

    Wales and Northern Ireland's respective games featured displays on the pitch or in the stands to mark the event.

    England have been fined 45,000 Swiss francs (£35,311), Scotland and Wales 20,000 Sfr (£15,694) and Northern Ireland 15,000 Sfr (£11,770).

    Fifa disciplinary committee chairman Claudio Sulser said he "fully respected" the commemorations but stressed the rules "need to be applied to all member associations".

    "The display, among others, of any political or religious symbol is strictly prohibited," he added.

    "In the stadium and on the pitch, there is only room for sport, nothing else."

    Fuck fifa
     
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  22. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    Fucking Imbecilic Fucking Arseholes.:-)
     
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  23. Strictly Armchair

    Strictly Armchair Perspective and equilibrium

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    That means all the nefarious activities for which they are now renowned must take place in hotel rooms and conference centres then.
     
  24. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    Stuffing your fcuking pockets and bringing the game into disrepute also making the game itself a laughing stock,how dare we show respect when those above us in charge are so unbelievably shallow,disband the fcuking lot and start again,they make the mafia look like amateurs.
     
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  25. RaoulDuke

    RaoulDuke Wind-Down Merchant

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    It seems fifa have found themselves a new annual source of revenue.
    I guess we can expect this "special" home nations tax every year from now on.
     
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  26. Kaliberbeats

    Kaliberbeats Well-Known Member

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    FIFA's rules are clear. Always have been. No politics involved in football. Period. If the FA hadn't asked and just done it then there would have been no fine as FIFA don't need bad press. Once the FA asked then FIFA was forced to answer. The FAI didn't ask about their 1916 emblem on their jersey and nothing was done about it until the English FA grassed them up and again forced FIFA into a decision. The blame lies with the FA.
     
  27. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Difference is that the 1916 emblem was political, the poppy isn't.
     
  28. James H

    James H "I dunno, I just work here"

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    1916 commemorates Irish history the way the poppy commemorates English & commonwealth history, there is no way to commemorate a war or the people who fought in it without it being political, there is always a chance it will upset someone for example

    "Dear Mr Whelan

    I wanted to write to you before talking about this face to face and explain my reasons for not wearing a poppy on my shirt for the game at Bolton.

    I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

    I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

    I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

    But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

    For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland’s history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.

    Mr Whelan, for me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles – and Bloody Sunday especially - as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII.

    It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people.

    I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past. I am a peaceful guy, I believe everyone should live side by side, whatever their religious or political beliefs which I respect and ask for people to respect mine in return. Since last year, I am a father and I want my daughter to grow up in a peaceful world, like any parent.

    I am very proud of where I come from and I just cannot do something that I believe is wrong. In life, if you’re a man you should stand up for what you believe in.

    I know you may not agree with my feelings but I hope very much that you understand my reasons.

    As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the club’s supporters this explanation.

    Yours sincerely,

    James McClean"

    Read more at http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/news/a...ames-mcclean-2070059.aspx#SGoqGq0mP76DSomT.99

    I'm not saying they shouldn't allow the poppy but that depending on points of view it could be seen as political.
     
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  29. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    The first bolded part is just totally incorrect. The poppy commemorates all lives lost (on all sides) through conflict. Even James McClean acknowledges that in the letter you have copied...

    "[...]if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

    I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

    But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.
    "

    He's got the wrong starting date (it is conflicts since the First World War, not the Second) but other than that he's correct. The poppy commemorates the victims of all conflicts on all sides, and I see no reason why the victims of the Bloody Sunday massacre would necessarily be excluded from that. Do you?
     
  30. James H

    James H "I dunno, I just work here"

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    1)It is not incorrect
    " Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November in most countries to recall the end of hostilities of World War I on that date in 1918. Hostilities formally ended "at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month", in accordance with the armistice signed by representatives of Germany and the Entente between 5:12 and 5:20 that morning. ("At the 11th hour" refers to the passing of the 11th hour, or 11:00 am.) The First World War officially ended with the signing of the Treaty of Versailles on 28 June 1919."
    It is only celebrated within the common wealth. It is only since world war two that it became the symbol it is today.
    2) The point James McClean is making is that Ireland was part of the Empire in world war 1, and it is only after world war 2 that the troubles heightened in N. Ireland.
    3) Are you claiming that the victims of the bloody Sunday massacre of 1972 should be remembered and celebrated alongside the men who murdered them and who put forward false accounts to justify their murders?

    The point with this and the reason the poppy and other political symbols are banned, including the 1916 commemoration, is that it is and always will be a sensitive issue, my point with James McClean is that these symbols are never universally viewed the same way, if Ireland had been playing England with the 1916 commemoration on their shirts, it would have been perfectly valid for English players and fans to think it was inappropriate.
     
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