Discussion in 'Pitchside - Football Forum' started by Ataturk, Oct 11, 2012.
Internationals? I despise them.
Me too. Vote leave.
Done and done.
The IN or OUT debate is the Brexit thread..
Thought I'd drop a few words on the Bulgaria - Netherlands game as some ex and current LFC players were involved + a bunch in the Dutch team that were either linked with LFC or some people want(ed) to see at LFC.
First of all keep in mind that this is an appalling Bulgarian team that the Netherlands were facing and one of the best examples to illustrate that (lack of) quality is LFC's own ex keeper Nikolay Mihailov (anyone remember him?) - he spent a lot of time not playing at all in the last few years (i.e. warming the bench somewhere) and now is playing for the last team in the Turkish second division. Still because of his father, he was in the national team even when he was not playing at all for his club and now started in this game. Ever since his transfer to LFC I wonder if anyone at LFC watches the young players that are signed, because if they did with Mihailov, then it must have been some blind scout watching him, everyone and his dog here knew how bad he was, even the fans of his own team were mocking him for some of the goals he was conceding before he went to LFC... but that's another topic
So Gini started this game and played alongside Strootman in what looked like 4-2-3-1. The game was similar to the Burnley - Liverpool game with the Dutch having around 70+% of the possession and doing nothing with it (one shot on goal all game). The Gini - Strootman double pivot was obviously not working even though both are good players (imo), they were lacking playmaking qualities and none of them tried to do incisive passes. It was apparent that the Dutch needed different type of player to unlock a very deep playing defence and none of Gini - Strootman (nor Klaassen playing in the number 10) had the required qualities to do that. So Gini had terrible first half of just recycling the ball and doing nothing positive (and sometimes just making wrong passes), but so did the rest of his teammates and Gini was subbed off at half time for Sneider, which changed their midfield from 2-1 to 1-2 with Strootman the most defensive, which improved their game a bit, but didn't help much overall.
Strootman I already mentioned, similar to Gini, showed that he's good player in some moments, but overall didn't help much his team and apparently he's not very good at "directing" the play, they needed someone with Alonso-like qualities imo and Strootman is just different player.
Promes (who we were linked with in January) played on the wing, was totally invisible the whole first half, isolated and outplayed. Quite bad second half as well, although at least in the second half he tried to do something on occasion, but nothing successful.
Davy Klaassen - played in the number 10 the first half and looked like he doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing. Getting no space between the lines because of the deep, compact defensive play of the opponent, obviously didn't help him. Second half looked a bit better with Sneider along side him, but still could not influence the game in any positive way.
I wouldn't judge any individual performance from that game as the whole Dutch team was very bad, even Robben looked bad and they lost the game 2-0 against a Leicester-like playing team - deep and organized defence with two small, fast forwards, quick counter attacks, got an early goal (5th minute), another one soon after and defended those goals the rest of the game with the Dutch team managing just a few shots totally and one shot on goal and never looking a threat the whole game.
You know Holland are in a bad place when Martins Indi plays RCB for them.
They played a 17 year old with only about 6 senior starts at CB in the last match. He had a mare, played a role in both early Bulgarian goals, incidentally goals that set a record for Holland being down by 2 goals so early in a match, and was then subbed off at half time. Blind then got sacked. So, lets hope that kid is either dumb enough or has balls of steel that he isnt weighed down by that experience.
Messi suspended for four qualifiers, with five left. Argentina are in 3rd, but just 2 points ahead of Chile in 6th, the first spot that misses out completely.
Bizarrely, the suspension was served not long before the match, the classically brutal away game in La Paz.
2-0 loss to Bolivia, now 5th and in the intercontinental playoff, but facing a match versus 2nd place Uruguay at the end of August.
A World Cup without Argentina would be the shits.
Even if they can't win it they somehow belong there.
Messi not being there will be disappointing to many if it happens - I expect he will retire from internationals before the next, maybe even before the next Copa
Do really think he would retire that early without winning a world cup?
Even if it was that close in brazil.
One fo the problems Argentina have is theyy have so much attacking talent, but Messi creates almost a Zlatan like problem for them. They all have to figure out how to play to get the most of our him, and it often results in really really good player being left on the bench. Without having to do that they have a chance of putting together a more coherent side, one that is still good enough to go and win the whole thing, but they then face the dilemma of qualifying with one approach and having to drop it to reincorporate Messi once they get to Russia.
He has already nominally retired once, and he will be 30 this summer, 31 during the World Cup. Other anchor players like Mascherano will be gone, Banega probably, Di Maria and Aguero will be in their 30s. Not many players are anywhere near the peak of their powers when they are 35, and Argentina will be in a rebuilding mode soon enough. Messi hasn't entirely enjoyed playing for Argentina, and it would be no surprise if he decides that there is not much hope of seeing a World Cup win in 2022.
Maybe, but I think the more fundamental problem is that the attacking talent is enormous, the defensive talent far below that. Rojo and Funes Mori are probably their best defensive pair right now.
That's what it looks like on paper, but in terms of the way it plays they tend to seem better defensively than they are with the ball. That could be the knock on effect of most teams being too petrified of their attacking talent to even try and attack themselves, but the result is that is the side that rarely lets them down.
I may be over-generalizing from the games last Fall, which are the three that really got them into some trouble. They gave up goals under relatively little pressure - I recall in particular the Paraguay win, where Paraguay really should have been up 1-0 already when they got the go-ahead on a counter.
My mistake. I thought Messi is still 27/28.
You are right, there ain't much hope left.
Maybe we can target some non-English players this summer?
That's not a slam against their ability.
I'm just tired of having Liverpool players get injured on England National Team duty.
Argentina sacked Bauza last night. This after a couple of weeks of denials that he has been sacked. Now they've finally admitted it but dont seem to have a replacement lined up, which sort of sums up how he got the job in the first place. The FA are allegedly pushing for Simeone or Sampaoli, both of which seem absurd, a bit like me saying I want to marry Natalie Portman. Argentina have outrageous talent and strength in depth yet it looks like continued administrative incompetence is going to sink the international career of possibly the best player of all time.
How about they get Mauricio Pochettino please?!?!
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