Jürgen Klopp: 2016-17

Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by El Dorado, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    French name fancier than Spanish perhaps? You know the old saying, English names not fancy got footballers to be rated highly, now even Spanish or Portuguese names aren't fancy anymore.....:-)
     
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  2. indianscouser

    indianscouser Oh ya Beautttty!!

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    Really?
    Chelsea - Hazard/ Costa
    Utd - Zlatan / De Gea
    Man city - De Bryune / Aguero
    Arsenal - Sanchez / Giroud

    Spurs probably the only complete team in the EPL.

    Id say, our dependancy on our star players is much less that other teams.
    Look at our injury list: Matip, Henderson, Lallana add to that Coutinho and Mane.
    That is like 5 1st team players missing for good chunk of the season.

    The reality is, the League is very tough and compressed at the top. A few wins/loss even after 30+ games can change the table significantly.
     
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  3. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    It beggers belief that people can come on and say that we're only good when everyone is fit and on form, and we cannot deal with just a couple of injuries during a season in which we are third despite barely ever getting to field our first choice XI, and routinely missing 2 or 3 at a time.
     
  4. Kanonkop

    Kanonkop Well-Known Member

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    We need to see that quoted by someone from the club, in a reputable newspaper, for that to be taken as a fact though.... ;-)
     
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  5. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    Even then it wont be enough, just propaganda because FSG doesnt want to pay any money lol
     
  6. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Not enough, you now need the money to be put on a table next the podium during every presser like what Trump and Spicer did as part of the props. Then when you sign one player, get the selling club to come over and hand them the cash, count in front of camera. That's the level of evidence we need these days.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
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  7. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    I think the biggest issue is that when our 'difference maker' players have been out, chiefly Coutinho and Mane, that's when we've struggled to break down the sort of teams that sit deep and defend. Of course, we're not the only team to struggle to do so, especially when key attackers are missing, but I don't think it's any great revelation to say we need more of those types of player to cover for such injuries if we're to challenge for cups and titles. I think Stoke was the only game we've won all season why Mane has been out, which kind of highlights the issue.
     
  8. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    I would like to hear from those who kept talking about Chelsea having far better squad than ours. Missing Alonso and Courtois, and they are being picked apart by United who had to park the bus against us. Imagine if they had lost Hazard like how we lost Coutinho to a two month injury, will they still be up there?
     
  9. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    Alonso and Moses have been key players for them, yet its' Kante who gets all the hype.
     
  10. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Moses not exactly the key as you may have seen today. Alonso maybe. But with those two, they get to pinned the opposing team back. They are an attacking threat.
     
  11. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    But Chelsea dont have anyone who can step into those roles as effectively, so they have been key.
     
  12. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Yes, that is true. They don't have anyone to take up that task. Much like us not having anyone who could take up Mane's slot, or Lallana's pressing, or Henderson's stability. But that's the shit that grinds me in here when some members in this forum (you fuckers know who you are), been raving about how our squad was shit, one player out and we are screwed and so on. Not realising Chelsea has never had their key players injured in a long spell. Today showed how difficult it is for them to not have their first team, they could not even muster up a shot on goal.
     
  13. Wyld@Heart

    Wyld@Heart Well-Known Member

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    And they have a 30mil striker who has obviously shat in Conte's garden and then pissed in his cornflakes to boot. Chelsea were extremely fortunate with injuries this season and their squad is not that brilliant in depth. They have played well this season but they have been blessed on the injury front.
     
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  14. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    You mean that "M-itchy Batshit-shuayi" Belgian striker? Haven't they learned from us, £30m for a Belgian striker with last name starts with "B" is only good enough for bottom half teams.... Well they did have Purslow at that time when they bought that fella. Go figure. lol
     
  15. Etipafilaf

    Etipafilaf "If we want, this can be a real special day."

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    Might be in for a wait.

    Somehow it seems some of those folks are unlikely to show up after a hard fought, much needed away win (and a clean sheet) without Mane, Lallana and Hendo.
     
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  16. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    There was an interesting conversation on the WBA thread just before kick off with Arminus making the point below and that he felt it wasnt the tactics so much but the players were burnt out and couldnt carry out Klopp's instructions

    I think the fundamental problem is worse for him without a winter break. His Dortmund teams often looked invincible in February, somewhat more mortal in April. His 2010-11 champions were 0.4 points per game lower after April 1 than their season average. His next team finished with quite the run, but his team the next year just couldn't keep pace with Bayern in the run out.

    Not only do you not have a winter break you play 4 PL games less but the real issue is the intensity of a PL game is just much more than it is in Germany, I would suggest over a course of the season its like playing 45 plus games in Germany.

    If he wants to win the PL here then he is going to have to make adjustments. Lets remember this season we havent had CL football.

    We got stuffed in Jan because we went from playing one game a week to 3 over Christmas that had a knock on effect in January.

    Next season hopefully we will have the abillity to completely change the front 6 from PL to CL and in the PL over Christmas so these players dont get the burn out that has happened with all Klopp's teams.

    Even yesterday we were conceding loads of opportunities when we lost the ball and one pass later WBA were straight on our back 4 and you can argue its the system or the players not being fit enough to carry out Klopp's instructions.

    Also there is no point just filling out the squad with players that Klopp is not prepared to trust in the games. Stewart would be an example of this.

    Lets hope we get 4th and Klopp can bring in 5 or 6 players that he will be able to trust
     
  17. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    Our problem in January was more to due to unavailability of key players. It was made worse by the lack of rest/preparation time between games during that period.

    I think you overstate WBA's opportunities for getting at our back 4.
     
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  18. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    I actually think our problem lies in the experience or rather lack of it from the manager himself. After having a pretty decent run the year before at the tail end, where we are actually playing quite a high tempo game, he thought he cold get away with a small squad since we were not in Europe. He did not anticipate how tough the league will be after that new money poured into every club, and the Africa Cup fucked us up even more.
     
  19. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    I dont think he deliberately went into the season with the size of squad he did, and he did try to buy in January, so i dont think it is fair to put January's problems down on the manager (unless it is in regards to discussing a resistance to changing formations). A number of players who performed well last season didnt replicate that in January, and others he could have hoped to have game time were not fit. So, for me, it was more a 'Perfect Storm' of what could go wrong, did.
     
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  20. The Elusive 19th

    The Elusive 19th TIA Youth Team

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    Form/unavailability of Ojo, Stewart, Can, Grujic, Gomez and mainly DS and Ings - all affected our Jan a bit, i think. Apart from missing the main guns. I think we should more quality, injury free bodies in the squad.
     
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  21. mattyhurst

    mattyhurst TIA Regular

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    Yeah Stewart stepped up the previous year but hasn't shown the same form this year. I think certain players he expected would be available more haven't been, I'm not sure what more he could have done considering you would have a number of unhappy subs if everyone had stayed fit and we had exited the League Cup early on.

    Maybe a sub for Mane, but then again it's a month and outside of that month Mane has been undroppable. Also losing Ings so early and Sturridge throughout (also Origi has struggled and he lost Coutinho for most of December/January) they all pile up.

    I think at the end of the day European football is vital season in season out, even if it's Europa League as it allows you to retain players who are up to it but not your very best.

    We've spent too many seasons without in the last few years, hopefully we will enter the CL next season and do that for many years but when we don't we still need to look on the EL as an important tournament.

    Spurs have used it immensely well.
     
  22. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    If you look at us now without Mane we are coping which makes me believe it was more to do with a lack of freshness in Jan which is the problem with the way Klopp likes to play football. Chelsea or Utd dont use the same energy levels so the Christmas games probably took a lot less out of them.

    Next season however with at least 12 quality front 6 players to pick from it shouldnt hit us so hard
     
  23. NYRhockey

    NYRhockey Well-Known Member

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    The problem with January is that we were missing 1.5 of our front 3. While Coutinho was physically on the pitch he was so out of form (may have come back too early from injury?) that he was invisible.
     
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  24. The Elusive 19th

    The Elusive 19th TIA Youth Team

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    We are coping by changing the formation and playing as in Klopp's words 'ugly'. Actually we are just surviving. And it's not just Mane as the discussion above suggests. And it's not the system.
    And **** United and Chelsea.
     
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  25. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    I dont think Chelsea had the same number of games as we did during that period this year, they certainly had the bulk of their first team players available for much of that period. United have a far bigger squad. We were missing key players through injury and AFCON. Freshness was a secondary factor.
     
  26. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    So if its not the system, what do you think it is then?

    I dont agree that it was just players missing, we had good enough players available to beat Southampton and Wolves they just didnt have the energy levels to play the way Klopp likes his team to play. The good thing was we had it out of our system by mid Feb.

    We have just won at Stoke and WBA without Henderson, Lallana and Mane so it not just the injuries that killed us in Jan
     
  27. NYRhockey

    NYRhockey Well-Known Member

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    I can point to Coutinho's form as the common denominator. He's had 3 goals and 1 assist in April where we've gone 3-1-0 so far and even though he did not have a goal or assist yesterday he played very well. Compare that to his form when he returned from injury (Jan 11) to Feb 11 where he only had 1 assist to show for that entire month of play and we sucked.

    We can cope with either Mane or Coutinho out, but only if the one not injured is playing well otherwise the offense really suffers.
     
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  28. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    Not saying it was just injuries that affected us badly in January. I pretty much said it was multiple factors in my previous reply when i included our small squad and multiple games per week. I'm saying injuries were the most significant factor - because it gave us fewer options to rotate and weakened our first 11 at the same time.

    We didnt lose against Wolves because our energy levels were low - most of those who featured had barely played for the first team this season (wijnaldum and Firmino the only out and out first teamers involved i think, Origi also starting).

    Several of those players involved in games that month were still carrying injuries which impacted their ability to play (Can and Hendo were both i think, and Coutinho was off the boil once he came back and was believed by many to still be unfit). Switching players around to make up for the loss of Mane was also an issue as we tried to keep the same formation, but lost our balance as a result.

    We are changing up formations/starting positions and we have more of our first team back, and on form (Matip barely played in January, Can is now fit, Coutinho and Firmino are on form).
     
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  29. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    You do know that it takes time learning a new system? To be playing a more defensive system we need players like Lucas, Matip and Can fit. Lallana and Henderson isn't that important in a defensive system.

    Not even the so called best manager in the world(Pep) have learned the league yet. Conte didn't had that problem because he play a defensive system. He also took over after a manager that also played a defensive system. The last manager we had that played a defensive system was Rafa. Our squad is built to play attacking football, not defensive. It takes a few years to change the squad so we can play both defensive and attacking football. It also takes time for the manager to learn the defensive system.
     
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  30. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    Conte gave up trying to learn his players playing attacking football. Next season he must be able to get his players to play more attacking or he will be found out.

    Klopp have been found out. Pep have been found out. You need more than a working plan A if you want long term success. Even Barcelona have been found out and they have Messi, Suarez and Neymar but that isn't enough if you only play the same system all the time.
     

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