Jürgen Klopp: 2016-17

Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by El Dorado, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. norwegian wood

    norwegian wood TIA Regular

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    And then you said Klopp needs to modify his approach regarding midfielders and attackers, which - in the context of what you wrote about Lovren and Matip - made it seem like you think the injuries to our midfielders and attackers is a result of the pressing they do. Which ILLOK responded to.
     
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  2. redbj

    redbj crowd fund for you to shut up give me the details

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    I'm getting fairly fed up with our "failure" when we try and sign someone as just being written off as something that happens.

    Take draxler....what's the point in even talking to him if you are going to get shitty if someone else offers more?.... Why are we interested in guys like texiera if we want 100% commitment to the plan? Why waste our time...as in...who's vetting these players....

    Same thing this summer....what's the chances we don't sign Keita or Brandt and the clubs left just shrugging it's shoulders....'who knew'.......well.....you should have fucking known.
     
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  3. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    We'll have secondary (probably even tertiary) targets. The reason we didn't settle for lesser targets in January is no doubt because we wanted to try for our first-choices in the summer, than settle for someone not as desirable six months earlier. I'm also pretty sure by now we know who is and who isn't available and even how willing they are to come to us... Klopp himself has said they've already started speaking to people and sounding them out.
     
  4. redbj

    redbj crowd fund for you to shut up give me the details

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    Hope so mate....I really do.

    There is a pattern though, where we generally are linked with all sorts of players we probably shouldn't waste our time with.....

    I admit, the fuzz created by media guesswork probably skews my opinion unfairly.....
     
  5. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    Some of the names we're hearing will be genuine, I'm sure. Others have no doubt either been made up, or are the result of guesswork by journos, possibly based on nothing more than looking at our needs, hearing which clubs/matches we've had scouts watching, and putting two and two together. There'll also be agents trying to spark an auction for their clients by linking them in the press to high-profile clubs (of which we're one).

    All of which means, it's better not to put too much faith in the rumours at least before all the reliable sources are all saying the same things and it looks imminent. Even if something doesn't come off, for example we know for sure we were after William, Mkhi, Costa and a few others.
     
  6. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    The Texiera deal ended because of his club's stance, not an issue with the player. We dont know why the Draxler deal failed - the player may not have wanted to come after PSG got involved and Klopp tried to put a positive spin on it.
     
  7. Arminius

    Arminius FSG PR plant Moderator

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    The agent factor is huge, particularly for LFC, particularly following the Comolli interlude. With the numbers we were willing and in fact did pay for some players that would not normally attract that much attention in the transfer market, we became an agent's godsend - out of all proportion to the number of transfers that actually happened. I think that has changed somewhat within UK circles, but you really see this in the Spanish press for example, where transfers like Moreno (1 season as a starter, ~15M Euros) have given it more mileage. It takes almost nothing for an agent to say 'LFC is looking at him, Club X should renew his contract' to make the pages of AS or Marca, which then finds its way into the English press with a wholly undeserved authenticity to it.
     
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  8. indianscouser

    indianscouser Oh ya Beautttty!!

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    Sakho has quality and is fucking clown and a blob (lost respect after what he did today). Lovren is a liability but gets to play. We are our own enemies.
    I hope Lovren doesnt even come close to the starting XI next year.
     
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  9. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    This manager has next to no match management qualities!
    Coutinho looked shagged and CP were dominating us with 20 mins to go. We needed fresh legs on just to stop CP. All we get from Klopp is nowt.
     
  10. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    Two issues screwed us this year not getting a replacement for Sakho and not getting cover for Mane

    If we had done that we could be looking at first instead of 4th to 6th
     
  11. Alex

    Alex since 2004

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    All the talk early season about klopp prefering to work with a small group of players instead of a large squad...
     
  12. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    Thats perfectly ok if you dont break them down and dont ship your best players out of town
     
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  13. Foldy

    Foldy Well-Known Member

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    "One step forward two steps back...that's what happens when Origi attacks"
     
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  14. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    Lovren is shit but don't get carried away with that best player bollocks.
     
  15. T.C.B

    T.C.B Well-Known Member

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    Get your axe sharpened Jurgen mate, swing hard and often.
    Sturridge, Sakashito, Moreno, Klavan, Lucas should all be the primary targets.
    Can, Origi, Mignolet, Milner and Clyne would be no great loss but maybe keep some as loose packaging.
    Keep Matip, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Mane, Frimino and Coutinho and build around them.
    Keeper, 2 centre halves, left full, central midfielder, winger and Striker needed as a minimum.
    But you are not absloved of blame either Jurgen......how is your side still fucking utterly useless under set pieces FFS?
     
  16. Kanonkop

    Kanonkop Well-Known Member

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    players - plural. Who are they? Sakho + whom precisely did Klopp ship out that are our best players?
     
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  17. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Who did he break down? Mane? Lallana? Henderson? Who?
     
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  18. Alright Now

    Alright Now Well-Known Member

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    Huh? Are you angry?

    I don't understand the break them down. And you're sure everything would have gone swimmingly if we'd kept Sakho?
     
  19. LFC-Orlando

    LFC-Orlando TIA First Team

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    Yeah what's worrying is that Jurgen did not want a large squad cause there was no European competition.

    There were 2 cups and they came and went. And then we had just the league. And the injuries continued to happen some on our dime and some on the National team's.

    I also remember how, in the summer, we were talking about having too many midfielders....Now I understand why a Klopp team needs to have too many midfielders. They get injured. And it's not just luck, I don't buy it. It's the demand on them legs, the defending and pressing which increases risk of injury and the fact that we are #1 in total miles covered in the league.

    Our respiratory experts at the hospital were once asked to help calculate the quantity of oxygen canisters we needed for one of our Everest expedition teams. We almost got it wrong, cause carrying too many increases the weight..... and then, we had a team member airlifted to the ER just to be sure. It was a complex calculation due to some team members having minor asthma .

    Here, Jurgen and his lieutenants have gotten their calculations so wrong, in so many positions, it's worrying. As a matter of fact, they got their calculations wrong in defense, midfield and attack. Very worrying.
     
  20. eng.amohd

    eng.amohd The false nine

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    Disheartening result. Same heart break like that 3-3 game 3 years ago. However, people blaming Klopp for lack of January activity and a poor bench is ridiculous and annoying. I don't believe this is the case. I see it that we are a top-ten team who are returing to its former glory, and is currently being hit by an injury crisis. Our team at the beginning of the season was (excluding kids):

    Karius, Mignolet
    Clyne
    Matip, Sakho, Lovren, Klavan, Gomez
    Moreno, Milner
    Hendo, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Grujic, Can, Lucas
    Coutinho, Bobby, Mane, Origi, Studgy, Ings

    This makes 22 players for the season, which only involves playing only in the league and 2 cup runs, in which case the kids could help. Logically, the squad makes perfect sense, especially that we have several "utility" players that can play in several positions. This squad can be divided into first and second choice teams such as:

    Karius / Mignolet
    Clyne
    Matip-Sakho / Lovren(Gomez)-Klavan(Lucas)
    Moreno / Milner
    Hendo, Lallana, Gini / Can(Lucas), Grujic, Milner
    Coutinho, Firmino, Mane / Origi, Ings, Sturridge

    The bolded players would normally be our bench in case our squad is fully fit in the league. Our bench would be stronger than most teams if he had the same sort of luck with injuries like Chelsea. It would be further strengthened by the likes of TAA, Woodburn and Ojo.

    Unfortunately, along the course of the season, we had several random setbacks:

    1. Sakho's exile
    2. Matip's Cameroon debacle
    3. Moreno proving he is unreliable
    4. Grujic long injury
    5. Sturridge vacation in the hospital
    6. Ings 2 long term knee injuries
    7. Mane's ACN duty
    8. Hendo's recurring heel injury
    9. Lallana's injury with England

    This excludes the injuries we have had during games such as Mane's and Coutinho's. These 9 situations leaves our effective squad to just 13, that is the 11 in the XI, the sub GK and Lucas; in which case the bench have to completed by Woodburn, TAA, Brewster and co. for the majority of the season.

    This would bring us to the big question: Why didn't Klopp buy in January?

    Short answer: It isn't easy to get the right player we want in January. Draxler preferred money, Azmoun didn't want a rotation role and Teixiera last season preferred easy money too.

    Top players won't accept coming in and become benchwarmers in a team that is just playing in the league, and if we find someone who does accept, he will be a perfectly average player, to which putting on a red shirt is the pinnacle of his dreams. The exact type of players we have been paying over the odds for as far as I can remember and have been suffering from them ever since. Klopp said, not buying at all is better than buying the wrong player. He was hoping that his team gets fit at a point in the season, but this only happened less than 10 times this season I believe.
     
  21. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    Against every fibre in my brain my heart just repeats over and over..

    /it's a marathon not a sprint, keep the faith, Rome wasn't built in a day.. Trust the Klopp.
     
  22. RedForever2014

    RedForever2014 Well-Known Member

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    1. If there wasn't one single player who we could have found and bought in January, who would have improved this team and squad for the run in, then put simply we either have a completely inept scouting department, a manager with poor judgement, a finance department (owners, CEO) that can't see the right sort of value, or - most worrying of all - a combination of all three.

    2. Klopp is clearly not a master tactician, which for us would make a huge difference in crucial matches and moments. It's probably why he loses so many semis and finals.

    3. If this is a long term project, and the club keeps referring to the fact, how can we expect to keep hold of the few top players we have today?

    4. This club has no realistic strategy to bring about success on the pitch. We either compete in the short term, or we never get there in the long term.

    For the 4th year in a row, we've bottled a huge opportunity. The league, two semi-finals, two finals, and now even a top four finish, in consecutive seasons.

    Much of it is due to a misguided transfer strategy, poor transfer activity, selling a top player every other summer, poor management of the resources we do have. Also, having too many young players without any experience of winning anything.

    The club does not look and feel like a football club, run by football people, which exists purely and simply to succeed on the pitch. It feels like a business whose product happens to be football, it feels like a brand, a huge advertising hoarding, with Anfield a museum, a zoo even, full of tourists who have been sold tickets to come and watch performing seals, on and off the pitch.

    In fact, it's often said that LFC is like a religion, and that is perhaps very apt. Religion asks people to believe in something they've never seen, purely on faith, and to not question the what or the why.

    There's a phrase, killing me softly, and many who follow the reds do so blindly, misdirected by a constant and intense PR campaign of expectation setting, ever moving timelines and excuses, when the reality is that their pockets are being picked by owners and club employees who feather their own nests regardless of whether anything is achieved on the pitch, and arguably at the expense of anything being achieved on the pitch.
     
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  23. Kaliberbeats

    Kaliberbeats Well-Known Member

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  24. RedForever2014

    RedForever2014 Well-Known Member

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    @eng-amohd

    1. Sakho's exile - known before 31/8
    2. Matip's Cameroon debacle - bad management by the club
    3. Moreno proving he is unreliable - known after the Europa League Final
    4. Grujic long injury - never a player who would make much impact this season
    5. Sturridge vacation in the hospital - injury problems well known, a 20 match a season player
    6. Ings 2 long term knee injuries - coming back from a year out it was reckless to have him, Sturridge and Origi as the strikers
    7. Mane's ACN duty - known
    8. Hendo's recurring heel injury - his injury prone nature was known
    9. Lallana's injury with England - the only new one

    We entered the season without a keeper who was good enough, with few quality defenders and no left back of the right quality, no top quality defensive midfielder and no established 20+ a season striker who could stay fit.

    This was not a squad that had all bases covered, good rotation options, tactical alternatives, the right physicality or mentality for the PL. It was a squad that was packed with similar type players, a lack of quality, and no experience of winning anything.
     
  25. eng.amohd

    eng.amohd The false nine

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    Right players aren't "found" in January. Right players are shortlisted and scouted thoroughly, and are headhunted in January if the right situation arises, or for insane amount of money. Clubs normally don't sell their stars in January, and the majority of the players sold in January are either for money that cannot be declined, or players that are sidelined at their clubs such as Coutinho and Sturridge.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  26. dandmc9

    dandmc9 New Member

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    the problem klopp has is he is trying to execute a plan with players not upto it , he needs to shoulder respsonsibilty for not signing anyone in january to help see us through, having said that i think the job he has done with these players is very good , it's an average team overachieving but we've made a big mistake not adding in january by the looks of things.

    having said all that we're still right in the mix but we should be out of sight
     
  27. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    I wouldn't waste your breath, he is one of the anti-FSG agenda driven types who you don't see till we lose, then comes on with his ranting bullshit.
     
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  28. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    It's a team that is still missing several key players. It's a bit unfair to expect Klopp to foresee that we would be without so many key players for much of the season from January 1st onwards.
     
  29. RedForever2014

    RedForever2014 Well-Known Member

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    There wasn't one player in world football, who could have been bought in January, who would have added something to the team and squad for the rest of the season, potentially even been the difference between champions league qualification and not, which not only would have covered their fee, but also enabled knock on benefits for the summer activity.

    This when the last few months have seen us woefully inconsistent, often lacking ideas, with a bench full of kids.

    Not one player?

    You've the right to your view, but I would respectfully argue that someone, somewhere in Anfield, earning big bucks for the responsibility of finding such players, laughs at how willingly sections of our fanbase lap this bull**** up.
     
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  30. eng.amohd

    eng.amohd The false nine

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    Exactly! Many of our problems are known and could be expected individually, but when several happens at the same time, it is bound to have an effect even on the largest of squads.
     

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