Javier Hernandez (CF) Bayer Leverkusen

Discussion in 'Rumour Mill - Transfer Talk' started by Zoran, Jan 29, 2016.

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  1. teto_pp

    teto_pp Active Member

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    We've had Lambert, Balotelli, and now Benteke who used to score but stopped when they came to us. We need the right striker not just someone who scores in his current team but will most likely fail with us.

    Chicharo is a luxury player, someone you bring out of the bench to close the game, not someone to lead the line. He never could really cememnt himself at utd despite scoring so many for them and there is a reason for that.
     
  2. GreenRedGreen

    GreenRedGreen Well-Known Member

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    Binned by LVG at Utd, horrible decision, he was a vital player for Fergie in those 3 years. Then loaned in by Real Madrid as a bit part player who scored a few important goals, wasn't binned at all, they just have an embarrassment of riches in terms of attackers. He's currently on fire in Germany, and in no danger of being 'binned'.
     
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  3. GreenRedGreen

    GreenRedGreen Well-Known Member

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    This is why forums are funny, people just randomly creating points to argue against, when nothing of the sort was ever suggested. And he cemented himself at Utd doing exactly what he was good at, scoring goals, and being the new Solskjaer.

    He's almost exactly what we need these days, someone busy in around the box who knows where the back of the net is, and/or a proper goal threat off the bench to change a game. He'd even make Benteke useful.
     
  4. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    I also think the criticism of his overall game is pretty unfair. He is far from the passenger some people have tried to present him as.
     
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  5. CymruRed

    CymruRed TIA Youth Team

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    Apart from his past playing for United (nobody is perfect),this guy knows how to put the ball in the back of the net first and foremost.

    He's the kind of striker we don't have at the club at the moment, a goal poacher and dangerous in and around the box.He can also be used as an impact player/super sub.

    If he's a player Klopp can work with and intergrate him into the team he's building,then i'm all for buying this guy.
     
  6. Nikola

    Nikola Optimist with a bit of experience. Admin

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    One more important thing with targets like Hernandez: genuine big club, big competitions and big game experience. There was an article on TIA yesterday that outlined my thoughts about certain players we bought over the years (though I admit I'm guilty of wanting a lot of these players signed, to a certain level at least) - buy midtable, end midtable. "You are what you eat", as late Peter Steele used to say (I won't quote the rest of this particular thought, though :-) ). Chelsea bought players from La Liga champions - ended up being champions. We bought in Southampton - ended up being very close to them in the table. Playing style and attitude count for much more than origin, though (the likes of Alonso, Mascherano, and Henderson can testify to that - that's why I like players like Arnautović and Mane, two self-confident and massively talented bastards who are playing consistently well for midtable teams, with the added bonus of playing well in big games).

    I think that someone who genuinely works hard at some big club to earn his place in the starting XI should have bigger priority on the list of targets than someone of similar age who's fighting for midtable or survival in clubs that play differently to what Liverpool aspires (or should aspire) to be. There lies the biggest mistake our club has been making in terms of transfers, their desire to find a financial bargain without improving on scouting has resulted in discord between what the team needed and what was available to them.

    Wenger's presser got me thinking even further about current crop of strikers in top leagues. Indeed, all the good ones are tied to long term contracts, are on huge wages and/or have huge buyout clauses. As per usual, rich clubs will probably go in for the likes of Cavani, Higuain or Lewandowski, so we'll probably have an easier go for the likes of Hernandez. Look at Napoli this season as the latest example of having a great goalscorer - they remind me of Liverpool 2013/14 (and I think they will ultimately suffer the same fate), only with a better defence - they have a great supporting cast for their star striker and he's as reliable a finisher as they come and the main reason why they are top of the table. We need that kind of player, someone who will score goals even when we don't deserve them and keep us afloat.

    I guess I can say that penny has dropped with me on Hernandez after looking at struggles we're suffering last two seasons in front of opponents' goals. It's not even the case of our players missing chances as much as it is a problem of stylistic differences - Lambert, Balotelli and Benteke have struggled a lot to prove that they belong here and we can't have that kind of thinking anymore, no matter how highly people in the game rate Benteke (maybe his fortunes at Liverpool will change - but until then, we'll in for a world of pain). Unless we can pluck some Aguero out of obscurity, I won't have any problems with Liverpool signing a former Man United player if he could guarantee us 15-20 league goals per season for the next four, five seasons, without us having to alter our approach to football in order to get the best out of him and those around him in attack.

    Hernandez has his flaws that we spoke of here (not versatile, not much of a chance creator, doesn't contribute to build up enough) but he specialises in things we lack here - and that's ruthless finishing in the box with either foot or head. He's intelligent and concentrated enough to anticipate when and where to move, to beat the offside trap, knows how to attack both posts and ghost past defenders without the ball - Sturridge is the only one here even remotely capable of doing so, though Ings can maybe become that kind of player in time but his long term fitness is a worry. It's demoralising to see so many weaknesses in our forward line after getting to watch the likes of Torres and Suarez for almost a decade.
     
  7. NJLFCJake

    NJLFCJake Active Member

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    I feel like Hernandez doesn't fit in our team when Ings gets fit. I believe Ings has to the potential to be our Javier
     
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  8. legalalien

    legalalien The Tweetherder

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    After having given a 'like' to the above post, I then read Nikola's very well put piece and I have to say it won me over. I can now understand the benefits of having him at Anfield, rather than waiting for our reserves to come good.

    Won't be easy to get though; player of the month for the third month running and now Arsenal are being linked with him.
     
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  9. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

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    You don't want us to alter our approach to football? As far as I can see, it's absolutely dreadful.

    Do City alter their approach to football when Bony replaces Aguero? Do Arsenal struggle to completely change when Giroud is in instead of Walcott?

    They don't. The whole style argument is overplayed. No number 9 is going to make our midfield look good, because our midfield is not good. It's that simple. Our problem isn't style, it's deficiency. Our midfield is devoid of quality. Some strikers will struggle less than others but that's about it. Sturridge and Aguero would score more goals than Benteke, Firmino, Balotelli...but they wouldn't suddenly make our style something to be admired.

    I sincerely hope we do change and adapt the way we play football.
     
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  10. Nikola

    Nikola Optimist with a bit of experience. Admin

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    I'm not desperate at all for our style of football to be admired, I simply want us to win. I don't think anyone admired Ferguson's style because it was beautiful - it was not, mostly it was two quick wingers, two lethal strikers and midfield who could get the ball to front four quickly. I don't think that it's our style of football that needs altering - it's more the personnel who are supposed to carry it out.

    There's a world of difference when we have Coutinho and Sturridge available in attack and when Ibe is on form in comparison to having Benteke leading the line or Milner, Henderson and/or Lallana as your wide players. Even if we win the ball high up the pitch, there is rarely a quick option available for a pass because Benteke is too static and the others are too slow or naturally inclined to drop deeper when looking to receive the ball. Just remember how Dortmund or Liverpool from 2013/14 rushed to front whenever they won the ball. Now we don't have that pace, no one to stretch the last line of opponent's defence, no lethal strikers and no penetration - having options like Hernandez and (name a quick, skilful, mainly consistent wide player here) would definitely help us make the most out of such situations.

    As for your argument about Bony and Walcott, you don't think that City have struggled with Bony up front? Or that Arsenal struggle more often than not when Walcott is leading the line (admittedly, I expected him to become a good CF for Arsenal)?

    Our midfield sucks, no two ways about it. Even Henderson is playing poorly (though, in his case, it's probably down to injury problems he had this season) and collectively, it's an area where we need to upgrade first (the irony is that our midfield lost only one of its members from 2013/14), then defence and lastly attack. However, if I was given a chance to swap Benteke for someone like Hernandez, I would, in a heartbeat. I'm tired of these experiments with players who were supposed to be good but were actually brought in mainly because they were available and got me trying to convince myself that they could be our Yorke, Cantona or Giroud.

    In the end, I firmly believe that having a striker who fits into your football and scores quite often can mask a lot of deficiencies in your side and buy you time to strengthen. Such players won't win us the title unless our defence and midfield are equally good but at least our opponents would have something to worry about in the meantime. Looking at our defeats from Newcastle away onwards, I couldn't find a player our opponents would worry about, it surely wasn't down to style of football.

    I'm curious, what alterations would you make to brand of football we're playing at the moment with the squad Klopp has at his disposal?
     
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  11. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

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    Not really, no.

    Bony's started 14 games for them this year, they've won 10, drawn 2 and lost 2. Also started their 0-0 draw vs Villa but had to go off after 25.

    Doesn't seem like much of a struggle to me and I didn't remember them struggling when Dzeko was firing them to the title ahead of us either. They don't have to completely alter the way they play with them up there, despite them being static and not offering a lot of movement and being nowhere near as good as Aguero is. Small adjustments are needed but it isn't as if you have to go back the the drawing board and completely rip up what you already try to do. We should be able to do the same whether it's Sturridge, Firmino or Benteke up there.
     
  12. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    @ILLOK, I disagree about the notion of no strikers can make our midfield look good. Other than Gerrard, the rest are practically the same midfield we had in our super season under Rodgers. The difference is we had Suarez. If we have a striker like that. He will make everyone looks good.
     
  13. RMP

    RMP TIA First Team

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    Ironically, I think our midfield has been our strongest area (albeit we are more or less shit every where else). I had my doubts about our forward line up before the start of the season. We keep buying stationary strikers such as Benteke, Carroll, and Balotelli expecting that they would adapt to our game or vice versa.

    I remember mentioning Hernandez a few years ago. Granted he had a bad run of form but i thought his style suited our game. He was a good alternative, keen to exploit space and playing off the last defender not to mention his goal per minute tally was insane.

    I wouldnt be against this move one bit.
     
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  14. carragold

    carragold TIA Youth Team

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    Seriously? Hernandez who has played for big clubs and has scored goals wherever he has went. Ings who has played for Burnley, had a very good season with them in the Championship and followed up by having an okay season with them in the Premier League and been bought by Liverpool only to have played a few games due to injury and from that you make out he is a better player than Hernandez. How?
     
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  15. NJLFCJake

    NJLFCJake Active Member

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    "I feel like Hernandez doesn't fit in our team when Ings gets fit. I believe Ings has to the potential to be our Javier"

    since you took the time to reply and write that lengthy paragraph, please tell me where I say that Ings is a better player than Hernandez
     
  16. carragold

    carragold TIA Youth Team

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    I'll look forward to the day Ings will be linked with Real Madrid because you will have proved me wrong.
     
  17. Semmy

    Semmy walk on...walk...on...

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    Chicharito > Ings

    Proven quality vs unproven and now a serious knee injury. Ings may never be the same

    Assuming we are playing a 4-3-3

    Horn
    De Sciglio Matip Sakho Flanno
    Hendo Matuidi Coutinho
    Sturridge Morata Firmino

    subs Clyne Lovren Grujic Çan Texeira Markovic Benteke

    keep Allen Smith Ilori Skrtel Migs

    Sell Balotelli Leiva Moreno Alberto Lallana Wisdom Yesil

    Release Toure Enrique
     
  18. NIDINGR

    NIDINGR Death by heavy metal.

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    Mel C lyrics?
     
  19. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

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    At his age, Ings can only get better.
     
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  20. RMP

    RMP TIA First Team

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    Why can't we have both? It's not like we are blessed with striking options
     
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  21. GreenRedGreen

    GreenRedGreen Well-Known Member

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    If Ings hit all of his targets, and maxed out his potential, he might reach Hernandez' level.That's not intended to disparage, I just think that would make him really good.

    Or we could just buy Hernandez as a ready made Hernandez. I like Ings, though, damn bloody shame he got injured when he did, I could see him and Klopp really hitting it off. What a fuck of season it's been.... bar getting Klopp, that is. This time next year, Rodders...
     
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  22. vjcpatriot

    vjcpatriot Active Member

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    My question would be - why would Leverkusen want to sell when they finally found a player to lead their line and it only cost them €12m to land him and he is under contract until 2018?

    I would like us to land a young striker or winger on the cusp of hitting his prime who is ready to contribute.
    Why haven't we looked to Argentina?

    Facundo Ferreyra, Luciano Vietto, Angel Correa, Paulo Dybala, Mauro Icardi, Lucas Ocampos, Salvio, Juan Iturbe, etc.
     
  23. NIDINGR

    NIDINGR Death by heavy metal.

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    We can only D.ream
     
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  24. Quagmire81

    Quagmire81 TIA Regular

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    We can easy give them an offer they can't refuse. Remember they don't receive crazy tv money like in England, or rip their fans off with crazy ticket prices like in England, so they can't offer the same crazy wages like in England.
     
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  25. Eggmundo

    Eggmundo If you fail to plan, You plan to fail !

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    Surely we can lock this one up now lads?
     
  26. legalalien

    legalalien The Tweetherder

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    Actually we were linked with himquite recently, although there's probably more chance of Liverpool signing me.
     
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  27. Chewbazza

    Chewbazza True Believer

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    ....Are....are you saying you're DEFINITELY signing for Liverpool? It's just Melissa hasn't mentioned it yet.
     
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  28. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    Can legalalien run up the left side of the pitch without shitting the bed in the process?
     
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  29. Wyld@Heart

    Wyld@Heart Well-Known Member

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    Bigger question; can he run BACK? ;-)
     
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