Let's talk tactics

Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by TheSweetSilverSong, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Artrain

    Artrain Well-Known Member

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    I have to say it, I'm getting worried. Since the City game on 31st December, we've played Sunderland, Plymouth, Southampton, United, Plymouth, Swansea, Southampton, Chelsea and Hull. All of them have used the same basic tactic against us, which is to sit back in two compressed banks of four and defend, defend, defend, and then hit on the counter when they get a chance. You'd think nine games playing against the same style should be enough to find a way to break that style down, but we're still struggling, and worse, we're still approaching the game in the same way.

    I don't want to criticize any of our players too much because these same players got us to our best start in 2-3 decades, so saying that they need to be shipped out now is sort of foolish. Half or more of the problem IMO is purely tactical. For the manager and coaching staff, the alarm bells should have started going off against Plymouth itself. Despite being such a lower league side, they created some really genuine chances against us for both the legs. Chances that, I remember thinking at that time, any league side could have probably put away. But then I thought things would definitely get better defensively if our first team was playing, no way we'd be countered that easily. Turns out I was wrong. Every single one of these games we've committed players forwards, and paid the price when opposition broke. By now, I'm sure we have a really diverse video collection on various ways in which teams can mount a counter on us.

    The bad thing is, our defensive frailty has been directly due to our plan going forward, and our plan going forward has absolutely not worked either! Its a bloody double whammy, is what it is.

    How the heck are we supposed to deal with it then? Well thats for our manager and his staff to decide, and I hope they're spending every single minute of their working time to find a strategy that can break this double bus park, but in the mean time, I guess we can just speculate on what might work. I think there are two ways to go about it.

    The first one is a slight change to what we've been doing. I remember when watching Champions League matches, quite often Barcelona used to come up against teams who absolutely sat back and did nothing but sit back. Most notably like Chelsea. Organized banks of four, or sometimes even more, leaving Barca to just shuffle the ball from side to side to try and stretch their defence. What they used to do at such time was get players on the wing to cross from really high up the pitch from behind the defence, almost from the byline. Remember Barca has no tall players up forward, and its not like they're masters of headers, so the crosses generally used to be low and whipped in with pace from the byline. An organised defence generally clears 80-90% of such crosses, but sometimes either the cross is perfect or the defence mucks up causing hell lot of trouble. It is difficult though, and you have to be persistent. Instead of crossing, players even have the option of continuing to dribble on the byline into the penalty area and then try and make something from there. I believe we had such moment in the Hull game with Milner, but couldn't make it count.
    We can also just cross in the normal way, which is what we've been trying I think, and try to get headers in, but they're also quite difficult, and we're neither that good at crossing nor at heading. I believe Can playing has a lot to do with this, so that he can get forward in the box and try and head one in, but Wijnaldum has shown that he's also capable of scoring good headers too, so I'm guessing its something Klopp is seeing in training.

    Anyway, if we're going down this route then its crucial for us I think to get the first goal. If we don't, and if, with 70-80% possession, we are still the first to go a goal down then that is killer IMO. The other team will then just shut up shop and might not even bother too much trying to counter at every opportunity.

    The second way I think is to say "screw possession football". Let the opposition have the ball. Sit back. Be passive and organized. We've shown against City that if we stay organized, and defend, we can be one of the best defensive teams. We can press and just play them on the break in pure counter attacking sense. I think this one is a lot more doable as we used to play like this before. Remember Klopp's interviews where he'd try to convince journalists that we're not just a counter attacking team, but a possession based team. Well right now possession is doing squat for us unless we learn to use it, so I say we go back to counter attack. Let the teams have the ball, let them come in our half, press, then break.

    Next game is Tottenham. I wonder if Pochettino will bother playing open football against us when he's seen parking the bus works so well. Come on Jurgen find some solutions dammit!
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  2. cardiffpete

    cardiffpete TIA Reserve Team

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    2 FB's very high and wide (last 3 games) and ultimate possession stuff (slower stuff too). Ally that with quite a few centrally based dribbles and loads of aimless crosses into the box. Then you are always very exposed centrally to a very fast thrust up-field, or else wing-first and then central.

    Teams will then sit tight and then just break in numbers and break very fast. The gaps are always there to start with. Just sit and wait for a moment when the encirclement strategy breaks down and then just go for it, in a fast counter break. Chelsea do this very differently here. They underpin the attack in a triple way, with Matic, Kante and Azpi too (all defending in an arc back) with 2 behind too in Luiz and Cahill. We only underpin with maybe one player (possibly 2) atm. Chelsea also have the option to go central or else out wide, whilst we do telegraph the move a lot more atm. Much slower play too. Our wing stuff is either slow or else too telegraphed.

    LFC also do like to actively reach our FB's in build-up play, whilst for Chelsea it's only an afterthought to involve the wing-backs in any actual build-up stuff aka vertical play maybe not possible or else to allow CM's to just shift across better, to better occupy spacings. LFC building it via the sides way too much, Chelsea don't do that.

    It's groundhog day and the counters of Swansea, Wolves and Hull were all semi-identical. Too many men ahead of the ball, or level with ball, then an unnecessary ball loss and then a 5-second counter straight-down the pitch. Both of our FB's stationary and very high, so all-the-space in the world here. Team not compact either aka 30 yards between our CB's and the rest of the team. Enormous holes being left then. Wait for LFC to gift cheap ball and then go on the counter. Or wait for a gifted corner instead and then just work a primitive routine.
     
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  3. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    Chelsea are very reliant on their wing/full backs in their attacking play. You pin those 2 back then they can only hurt you with some wonder stuff from Hazard or dodgy stuff from Costa once in a blue moon type stuff. I think I get the point that they go down the wings much more whilst we try switching (which isn't working because it's too slow predictable and leaves our Full back isolated, funny really it's us who decide to switch yet we're not ready for it but the opposition is).
     
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  4. Jaytinho

    Jaytinho New Member

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    [​IMG]

    I posted a thread on this...the general consensus was that we dont have the CDM strength and CB quality for this system...but, does it not help narrow the spaces in cetral midfield? 3 in the middle seems to be leaving Hendo and Gini/Can exposed...Mane will obviously be alot more advanced than Milner/Moreno on the left, Lallana focal point at CM with Firmino and Coutinho free up front
     
  5. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    That is basically what we play anyway, just with CLyne further forward and Henderson dropping inbetween the CBs or out to the right/left.
     
  6. costared

    costared TIA Reserve Team

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    The fact is it is easier to defend than attack. Most teams are built on a strong defence. Th old adage " build from the back" still applies. Our build up play is much to slow , we need to pass the ball forward sooner and quicker rather than sit back and let the opposition get organised and then try to break them down.
    There is another old saying I have found often works , " a change is as good as a rest". I think this is because when things are going wrong a change gives players something new to focus on and gives them fresh hope. It need not be a massive change, just something to make them think a bit. Such a big part of the game is psychological.
     
  7. cardiffpete

    cardiffpete TIA Reserve Team

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    Chelsea are not at all reliant on their wingbacks, normally anyway. All normal build-up play is usually highly vertically based by Conte.

    The 3-at-the-back and in build-up (facing one attacker), all 3 will just split high and wide, facing 2 attackers/pressers they assume the Diamond shape with Luiz ahead of the other 2, facing a committed 3 man press, Courtois then goes (lofted) to one WB or else just fast-passes his way out of it.

    Normal (aka Conte's vertical) advance ball template, from basic CM play also promotes one side-back (Azpi or Cahill) into another triangled Diamond - with 3 outs here, either diagonal forwards or else backwards or else just square instead, where the least favorable method is to involve any wingback play, as potentially too isolated.

    The switchback plays from Conte involve the opposite based side-back advancing up into CM, to provide outs and passing templates up-field - or else pops back to Luiz as the sweeper guys, who then pops a long-ball up-the-wings. Those forays into CM by Azpi etc are designed though to move the ball much more vertically, not laterally.

    Attack templates by Chelsea: The rule of 3 here. Basic ball in the middle and centrally - and then 3 ideas, up-to Costa who is always on the move, into the half-space with Hazard or just go vertical with Pedro or else move it out wide instead. Again and if they choose Costa here, then there are 3 spin-off ideas aka 3 men instantly on 3rd man runs here. Hazard going deeper, outside right (or left) wide and one CM thrusting-up. You force the opponent to then make choices. just bluff the opponent to make a choice first here. If they don't succumb here, then you always have a proper striker (in Costa) to just nick something maybe against the run-of-play, like vs WBA and others. The value of a striker who will bail you out, like Sturrideg vs Everton for us. Nothing really working on the day for us, bar a last-minute and last-gasp proper striker's goal.

    Breakdown choices are to have one side-back (the opposite one) just take a position in an arc midfield defensive surround. That is more than enough to counter most fast-break threats. Otherwise you have 1 or 2 players running a slow-down or delay template.

    Conte on attacking corners stuff:
    A) If facing the man-marking stuff, then he puts 3 men well-back at centre circle (he always goes Moses right, Kante central and Azpi on left duty) , then he squares 4 men aka his 4 best aerial threats (Cahill, Alonso, Costa, Luiz) at around penalty spot, in a very compact square and all touch-tight. Pedro meanwhile will be positioned very central and just outside the box, while Matic will be about 6 yards out at near-post stuff (for basic head-it-on stuff). All of Conte's 4 main aerial threats will then move inwards aka at least 3 will just gravitate towards the 6-yard area (on at times very different movements, one will do a looping run etc), whilst one single player will always go to far-post - mostly Costa, but also Luiz has done this here, as well.

    B) Conte's template against Zonal marking (aka basic LFC stuff on defending corners) is completely and radically different stuff here though. Unlike man-marking teams, zonal-marking teams defend almost always with all men-back, so there is almost no counter-attacking threat ever possible, so no reason for Conte to ever keep 3 men held back here. So it's now just the one aka it's always Azpi on the centre-circle. Instead Conte now deploys a very deliberate 3-man arc just outside the penalty-box, and it's also maybe more unusual stuff here -as now Kante is clearly deployed very far to the right, with Moses is now very central and Pedro is very much left-spaced here. All just to mop up breaking balls and to continue the attack. Probably as Kante is the best player to recycle ball back to the corner-taker. The next subtle difference is that Matic is no longer statically positioned about a couple of yards out of near post and 6 yards from goal. Now Matic starts from a central slot instead and he just runs into this position instead. The reason is that Zonal is well set-up to stop static head-on threats, with at least 2 men always ready to challenge this stuff, but movement is a big challenge for Zonal stuff here. Also instead of being in a square formation here, Chelsea's best aerial threats are now in a very-strict horizontal line (back) with about level with the 2nd zone (of zonal-marking). Never anywhere near the 6-yard primary line of the 5-4 or 5-3 Zonal ... but always coming-in from the height of the box stuff. 3 of the top headers will then go near-post (and here it's always very strictly Cahill, Alonso and Luiz), while Costa will be the only one who always does an about-turn to far post.

    I'd love to do a feature on how LFC approaches exactly the same stuff - except we don't have any clear strategy here, as far as I can see. At least not obviously anyways. It keeps changing for us and is never constant. Try one thing, try another etc. No clear over-riding principles here.

    The anti-LFC startegy at corners is also very clear though. Just a looping ball, swinging outwards, to just about past penalty-spot. Then 6~8 LFC players will simply turn back-to-ball, just focus on the man (and not the ball). Then it's quite easy just to head the ball ahead into the danger area of the 6-yard box. All LFC Zonal guys (in the first-line, of 5 or else 4) always break their shape too and head outwards ...so just then hit the box with 2 direct forward runs inwards and one other looping run, around the back-of ...and almost success guaranteed here. About 6 goals conceded to exactly this stuff.

    Then and on promoting bad counter-attacks against. Chelsea have one guy (in Costa) who is regularly guilty of just giving the ball away pretty cheaply in full-attack stuff. But they have a dedicated 5-man defensive unit to offset that stuff. LFC have maybe 5 guys who give away cheap balls in attack. Both Lallana and Firmino often run down blind-alleys here with no heed of what is behind for us, even Cou is pretty prone to a brain-fart short pass direct to the opponent, Emre Can is no slouch here either in the department of making some very extremely poor pass choices, while Mane constantly tries some very mazy dribbles, most of them are just about OK, but most are also asking for trouble. LFC however have no rescue template whatsoever in pace, to face any counter-attack on attacking balls lost, bar some gegenpressing stuff. If we can't do that stuff though (or switch to it fast enough), then we have 2 very isolated CB's left behind (aka not compacting play at all) and maybe only one single CM standing in the way of the opponent launching a very fast counter attack.

    Exploiting our very impulsive attack (after so much ponderous play and ultra-slow build-up, we just suddenly decide to take too many risks) with decisive thrusts up-the-pitch has suddenly become the way to beat us, as has exploiting our almost shambolic way of play the Zonal defense on both corners and frees-in too. 2 massive Achilles heels here. Opponents just sit-and-wait, hang tight, defend very tight and ...then we just clusterf**k it up, all by ourselves. It's not forced, just over-reaching, or just too slow build-up.

    Damn it. LFC was supposed to be doing what CFC are now doing. Aka front-running, with no European football to worry about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
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  8. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    Nice post above.
    Though I will stand by my statement though admit that reliant is perhaps going a little too far. Chelsea remain a defensive team and counter attack from deep, still Alonso arriving late into the box is very important to them. Also when they try to keep possession, after an 'aborted' counter, Moses and Alonso getting up to the opposition final 3rd is paramount, if they are forced deeper Chelsea struggle to keep possession let alone attack.

    Just simple observation on my part. to be honest I haven't seen enough of Chelsea to do much else (normally I only watch LFC games but this year have seen a bit more EPL due to a sports service on my internet deal).

    Definitely agree that LFC are very inconsistent in their approach in many areas of play, this bought me to comment that I haven't a clue what our actual formation or tactics is/are. I really hate how we switch play and isolate, normally Clyne, on the right for example yet we persist in looking for it all the time (makes Clyne look really poor.
     
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  9. Spitfire

    Spitfire Resident Realist

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    I'd look at going to a 4-2-3-1.

    The 2 becomes your platform you build from and also your insurance policy defensively - Hendo and Wijnaldum would be ok for now. Both can recycle the ball quick enough, you then also have cover for a flank if your fullback get's caught high without sacrificing a man in the middle.

    In the three you bring Firmino back into the ten role - he plays better when trying to exploit space between midfield and defense. You then also get to play with an out and out striker - for me at the moment Origi, he has pace and can compete in the air - someone in the box always looking for half a chance.

    If we keep doing what we are doing and expect a different result........
     
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  10. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    I thought 4231 was what we lined up against Hull, didn't look that good to me. We looked messy all through January possibly because the players struggled with adapting to personnel formation and tactical changes. Of those only personnel changes were forced the rest were implemented. We tried being a lot more fluid and lost our foundations imo.

    Also a match fit Can would be a better bet in a 4231 than Wijnaldum imo.

    I would just go back to our 433 template and bring lallana back into midfield with either Can or Wijnaldum.
     
  11. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "┬┐Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Now that would be something that isn't too drastic like 3 centre back change, and make us more secure defensively with 2 midfielders sitting back a bit. Leave the 4 up top run the show. With that sort of formation, the 3 supporting the strikers would be the ones that are more fluid, interchanging, while the striker can resume the role of occupying the two centre half he is going up against. I like it.... All 4 of Lallana, Firmino, Coutinho and Mane fits in the 3 spots perfectly well. That would be nice to see back in the game, lately not many teams use that formation anymore.
     
  12. cardiffpete

    cardiffpete TIA Reserve Team

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    It was definitely a 4-2-3-1 against Hull, with Can and Hendo almost side-by-side all game, all of our front 4 potentially free to interchange though. I would suspect that that formation choice was to further implement the 2nd half success strategy vs Chelsea of deploying both our FB's very high up the pitch then. Which we also saw against Hull too.

    Except the general play was far too slow and ponderous to take advantage of the advantages of higher (although static) width provided by having both FB's very high up-the-pitch, while the risk element was also very high as well ...as we were just insanely (maybe) left-open to the counters -as against all of Wolves, Swansea and Soton in both of the EFL Cup Semi-Final games too. Lots of very fast counters faced then.

    Koeman also briefly flirted with stationing Coleman and Baines very high for EFC too in the past 8 weeks or-so, often though by also converting his team to then play the 3-5-2 shape. Koeman has since abandoned that stuff though and has now reverted to basic 4-3-3 stuff instead, with success too as they are now going 5-2-0 in their past 7 games and his team look even a major threat to LFC here. The reason why is that probably a starting position of very high, looks very good on-paper, for FB's ...but is not so much in practice. Coleman was actually getting about 50% less of the ball then, while he is just very important for EFC.

    Instead having Barry as a dedicated DM with Schneiderlin (a really very good player btw!! and crazy how Mou did not rate him) is now giving Koeman the best of both world's here. In attack mode, Barry just basically assumes the 3-man arc of slotting between his split CB's (to replicate a 3-man defense idea) , while Coleman just sees so much more of the ball then, within the back-four set-up. While Barry also (with Schneiderlin, McCarthy, Idriss, Davies etc) can far better patrol and press the CM space then too, for EFC as well.

    I would be seriously concerned about Everton here atm, for the rest of this season. They do NOT have any easy fixture list, although it is no harder than LFC's is in all probability. But ... Koeman has been chopping and changing a lot, but he is also very recently and very slowly gravitating towards a success-template way of playing too. Lots of tough love with Barkley, now maybe working. After EFC's watershed loss at Watford (3-2) about 2 months ago with ultra-slow, pedestrian and very unimaginative attacking football on show (almost identical stuff to LFC since New Year), Koeman has since acted very radically.

    Goalie changed, CB (one) changed, the very good Schneiderlin added in CM stuff, Lookman added (with Delefou off-loaded), Barkely more RW (and less central and far less prima-donna, bar his premature celebration stuff ;-) ). Lukaku much better facilitated too, also Miralles out of favor here.

    I posted about Chelsea above, but they are simply miles above us atm. A complete and very high-functioning machine-like team. Everton might be a better example. They are not miles behind us ...and they are just closing very fast too. Koeman holds a lot of trumps atm, probably more so than Klopp does unfortunately too. Easier to motivate a new-look team with new personalities and many new and fresh ideas, than to re-invigorate a team gone stale by itself. LFC could very well find itself out of Top-6 ultra-fast, unless Klopp can arrest the slide very soon here.
     
  13. Flobs

    Flobs FADA

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    Your scaring me. I haven't seen EFC since we played them. Schniederlin is a good player (definitely many levels above Cleverley), much more useful than he appears and I have always liked Barkley with the right coaching he can do a lot of damage (just don't ask him to run fast).
    I did see Chelsea Vs Arsenal, thought Arsenal had too many players being carried when on defense, Iwobi and Ozil being the major culprits. I don't think that is possible against any team in the EPL these days so we could see them falling off the pace as well if they don't sort that out.
    The big worry is surely Manure they and EFC coming along could make our lives very difficult if we don't buck our ideas up.
    I can not help thinking that Klopp went too fluid with to much freedom too soon. The question is will he be able to rein it in? (if you ask me).
    We'll just have to wait and see where everyone is with 6 games to go.
     
  14. cardiffpete

    cardiffpete TIA Reserve Team

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    Both ManU and EFC are just waiting to pounce here IMO. Both managers i.e. Koeman and Mou have been playing catch-up for a very long time, which has been forcing both of them to make some decisive innovations qua playing squad, formations deployed, tactical innovations etc. LFC are on a slow decline spiral atm, with very little innovation on show either qua players or else in-match ideas.

    LFC are maybe now trending towards not only losing out on a title push (that's long gone btw!) , not only having to settle for Top 4 (that's surely between us Arsenal, ManU and Everton atm in a 4-way fight for only one CL ticket here now), or else to have to face a life in Europa league next season (and then not attracting the best players worldwide).

    That is NOT the very worst that could happen though. Our maybe biggest danger here is to slip out of Top 6 entirely. Klopp is showing no signs of accepting this new reality either. One or two players in or out of starting XI is not a reaction template here. Like Leicester maybe thinking they are too good to be relegated. Our next 7 games are really very difficult, starting with Spurs at home.

    I would love to see LFC kick-start a new and better sequence of results and performances and I do hope that we will do so under Klopp very soon. If we don't though, then we are very quickly on the slide to even outside of Top 6.
     
  15. Spitfire

    Spitfire Resident Realist

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    Yeah - like anything sometimes subtle changes are better than sweeping. While some have commented that we played that formation against Hull - it seemed for long periods we were far to disjointed to really call what we had a formation - and for mine Firmino seemed to be spending a lot of time too deep (admittedly I haven't gone back an re watched the game) - hence my reasoning of wanting to play an out and out striker if we do look at this formation.

    @cardiffpete made a fair point about our general build up play though, it was too slow, so while we looked bad with our supposed 4-2-3-1, we would have looked bad in any formation. It's also why my preference would be to play Wijnaldum over Can - he moves the ball much more efficiently, and that's something we really need right now. While the 2 play a key role defensively they are also crucial in transition - winning and moving the ball quickly into the right areas of the pitch to create momentum in attacks. Chelsea has been referred to and to be fair Kante and Matic have done this very well - it's not about being flashy it's about being effective.
     
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  16. Kanonkop

    Kanonkop Well-Known Member

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    One thing is certain, Klopp will surely take advantage of a defacto mid-season break now after the Spurs game. 16 day break until our next game at 8pm on Monday 27th. I don't know how the Spurs game will go but I'm actually pretty confident about our games thereafter.

    That's plenty time to refresh the players mentally and physically, get them back in a positive mindset and get all players over any niggling injuries.
     
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  17. Dane

    Dane IN SUPPORT

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    God help the poor little darlings of today if they were asked to kick or even head the footballs that our heroes from the 60's and 70's had to play with.

    Todays footballers are a true reflection of todays generation.
    A bunch of pampered soft arsed self indulgent brats.
     
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  18. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    Who have made it through possibly the most stringent selection process of anything in the world, having largely given up their youth to do so. Aye, fucking wasters.
     
  19. Dane

    Dane IN SUPPORT

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    To earn an obscene living doing what millions would give their right arm to do, but weren't good enough.

    I feel for them.
     
  20. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    Well, millions would claim to give their right to do, but very very few would actually give it, or put in half the work that these young men put in during their youth to get there.
     
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  21. Dane

    Dane IN SUPPORT

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    Figure of speech.
     
  22. ubermick

    ubermick Willing to drive Moreno to the airport Admin

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    I dunno about that... the game was a lot rougher back when we were kids (well, technically wasn't invented yet when you were a kid) but was also almost more of a pastime than a profession. Lads playing for top clubs would get up Saturday morning, full breakfast, play their match in the afternoon, and have a pint in one hand and a fag in the other before the stadium emptied out. Training was a couple of times a week, few laps around the pitch and a kickabout.

    Players today might throw themselves around like sissies at the merest hint of contact, but they do have to devote EVERYTHING to be a top pro these days. The constant training, every calorie is analyzed, drilling of tactics and the like - and as limiescouse says, most of them have to bin off school at a relatively early age to even TRY and make it - meaning those that don't have absolutely fuck all skills or preparation to live in the real world if their football career either never happens, or gets cut short. To top it off, you have predatory agents and money men who, despite these lads earning tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds a WEEK, hoover it up from them, leaving most players broke and wondering where it all went at the end of their careers. And every idiot with a cell phone pointing them at you making sure that if you do fuck up in the slightest, it'll be all over the world within minutes.
     
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  23. Dane

    Dane IN SUPPORT

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    That's the price of fame Gaz.
    And although agents are predatory, I doubt very much they leave many of the top pros broke.

    Some of the smaller names, the ones at the smaller clubs maybe, but I've always perceived them to be harder workers on the basis they're less naturally talented so have to work harder to try and reach the top.

    There is a different mindset to many of the current "I want it handed to me on a plate" generation though, and that includes footballers.

    Plus, I'll bet not one of our current players played with worms when they were kids.
     
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  24. Etipafilaf

    Etipafilaf "If we want, this can be a real special day."

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    A question for those who know tactics better than I.

    Would it help to have Karius instead of Migs? He's more comfortable in the sweeper keeper role and seemingly comes further up the pitch when teams do park the bus.

    Would that help limit the long balls and through balls we been exposed to? Or would it not help enough to matter or make that change? I've always thought that would allow the CBs to push up and condense the space even more to the point where if we lose the ball there would be so little space that would could regain it almost immediately, similar to the first meeting with Hull. But, then again, my knowledge of tactics is nowhere near most posters on here.

    Both make mistakes, migs is probably the better shot stopper but I assume Karius was bought for a reason and seemingly will improve. He's still young after all, I mean he's not that much older than Kevin Stewart or Emre can. So I'd be all for giving him another shot to be our No. 1.
     
  25. Quagmire81

    Quagmire81 TIA Regular

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    That's a little unfair to all the young lads that didn't make it. for every professional player there must be thousands that didn't. I'm sure they all gave themself 100%. Look at our own Academy, how many actually makes it.
     
  26. Quagmire81

    Quagmire81 TIA Regular

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    I personally think the whole sweeper keeper thing is overrated and hold very little value.
     
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  27. cardiffpete

    cardiffpete TIA Reserve Team

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    First bolded bit and yes for sure here. On 2nd bit and the limiting of the long and and through balls, no - for short. Yes CB's could push up better and compact play more, but if also the FB's are very high here and with only one or two cover players ..then you are always cruelly exposed to potential counters. The better thing here is to then not give away cheap ball, in the first place when in full-on attack.
     
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  28. James H

    James H "I dunno, I just work here"

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    I say this with all due respect, but these statements are utter nonsense. I can agree that players before played a harder game, with less soft tackles, but the speed of the game has increased to a level that many of those players could not survive at now. And to claim that all these players are "A bunch of pampered soft arsed self indulgent brats" is at best forgetting all the players who come from rough areas in south America, Africa, eastern europe and other dangerous places. Dejan Lovren talking about being a refugee is out now too, and Diego Costa grew up in flavelas'. there are many players who will have been far removed from everyday life from an early age but just as many had to improve at football because it was their escape from their surroundings. To make generalised sweeping statements that all of these players are spoilt and pampered is unfair on the many players who's drive to succeed was to better the lives of their families or even their homeland, Drogba puts in an effort above and beyond in the Ivory Coast, going so far as to help build houses himself.

    As for the section in bold, how do you think Messi, ronaldo, Suarez and Neymar got as good as they did? Supremely talented players who had to work tremendously hard to get to the top and stay there. They wouldn't be where they are now if they were soft. Maybe the players at smaller clubs are at smaller clubs because they didn't work hard enough.

    As for kicking or heading the footballs of the sixties, I don't understand why that is relevant? Should they wear jerseys and boots from the 60's and 70's too? Play on the fields from the 70's? The game advances on the field with sport science and off it with scientific and technological improvements, saying the players nowadays are soft because the ball was improved is a tad unfair no?
     
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  29. Libero

    Libero Well-Known Member

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    We need to scrap the 433......

    Considering our defence is a shambles we need to offer it more protection, I'm advocating a 4-2-3-1 which is what we played early on in the season and we looked ok. I would like to see us implement this more to solidify us at the back, and we all know we are a counter attacking team (or play our best on the counter) so think this set up would help as well. When we seem to have possession we are clueless.

    Firmino is a strange one, I still can't work out what his best position is but I think of it as a traditional no 10 or second/support striker. The only reason he is playing the 9, or false 9 is that we cant rely on Sturridge and Div is maybe not quite there yet to be starting week in week out. Not to mention, the "Jurgen-Press" which Firmino does well.

    The dilemma then is who do you drop, and right now I would probably drop Coutinho (granted he scored tonight) he has looked out of sorts since returning from injury, trying to do too much, not releasing the ball when he should, not shooting when he should. He will click eventually but I would drop him.

    I won't bother with the back 4.

    -----Hendo Gini-----
    Mane Firmino Lallana
    --------Origi-------------

    Last time I went for a midfield duo of Hendo and Gini it was rightfully pointed out that they could not work, however that was in the Conte thread (talking about 3-5-2//3-4-3) I do think they compliment each other quite well Henderson the worker while Gini ticks the ball along and can be the one who advances further forward.... and lets be honest they are probably the 2 best CMs we have.

    Anyway, we need to change something.
     
  30. redbj

    redbj crowd fund for you to shut up give me the details

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    agree with Cardiff Pete here now...where as I used to think hes just gotta keep at his game plan and keep ramming home his 'plan a'...jurgen now needs to tinker...massively.

    playing Lucas at centre back is pointless (literally!!!wahey!!!), and Can needs the next few months off.

    Klopp needs to redefine his blueprint.

    this season is gone...even CL qualification will paper over the mental cracks of being within touching distance of Chelsea to scrapping with Everton.
     

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