Loan Watch 2016/17

Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by Nikola, Jul 10, 2016.

  1. Nikola

    Nikola Optimist with a bit of experience. Admin

    Messages:
    15,174
    Likes Received:
    6,034
    Players currently out on loan:

    Ryan Fulton (Chesterfield) - until the end of the season
    Danny Ward (Huddersfield Town) - until the end of the season
    Ryan Kent (Barnsley) - until the end of the season
    Allan (Hertha Berlin) - until the end of the season
    Jon Flanagan (Burnley) - until the end of the season
    Lloyd Jones (Swindon Town) - until the end of the season
    Taiwo Awoniyi (NEC Nijemegen) - until the end of the season
    Andre Wisdom (Red Bull Salzburg) - until the end of the season
    Lazar Marković (Hull City) - until the end of the season
    Pedro Chirivella (Go Ahead Eagles) - until the end of the season
    Cameron Brannagan (Fleetwood Town) - until the end of the season
    Jack Dunn (Tranmere Rovers) - until the end of the season
    Mamadou Sakho (Crystal Palace) - until the end of the season
    Brooks Lennon (Real Salt Lake) - until the end of the season
     
  2. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    15,389
    Sounds like a bit of a loans shake-up from us, going by reports in the Echo this afternoon.

    We're now insisting on a 75% of games clause in our loan contracts - ie the players we send out will be played at least that much by their loan club - and are waiving loan fees instead.

    Brannagan was to be loaned to Wigan but the move broke down as WA couldn't agree to the clause, and also sounds like loan offers have come in for Kent (seven Championship-level clubs) and Flanagan (Burnley)

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...erpool-insisting-playing-clause-loan-11641458
     
    inaiq, TFC and Livvy like this.
  3. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    5,793
    I dont know how you enforce that sort of clause, and even if you can I do not I think it is advisable for our kids to be in a situation where they are getting game time for a club where everyone there thinks it is just because they are contractually obligated to get it.

    I get the idea, and in almost all cases it would be preferable to get guaranteed game time than a relatively trivial cash amount for a player to sit on the bench of a championship side, but it just seems like one of those idea that has no practical way to be applied.
     
  4. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    15,389
    In the article it talks about financial penalties being written into the loan agreements for failing to meet the targets.

    We've seen one loan deal fall apart now because of it, don't have any real problems with others following suit and at least it's good for everyone to be up front about the expectations for how often these players will play. Given the window-to-window loan deals now, it would be impossible for us to recall a kid who isn't getting game-time and finding another loan position for him, so I guess this change is in part motivated by the desire to actually ensure we and our young players get some benefit from these kind of moves.
     
  5. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    5,793
    If the info on the penalty clauses is accurate then I struggle to see why that would be a sticking point as the two scenarios then become 1) play him and get him for free, or 2) dont play him and pay us the loan fee we would have charged you last season anyway.

    I think like always a good loan is going to come down to finding a club where the manager rates the player and will use him, and hopefully cultivating relationships that we can go back to time and again (somewhat minimized by the length of tenures in the loaning clubs)
     
  6. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

    Messages:
    11,059
    Likes Received:
    11,476
    The most obvious one being Huddersfield. You'd think we'd look to use them every year Wagner is there, there's always going to be somebody in our academy who could improve them.
     
  7. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    15,389
    Maybe it was just showing good faith. They could have done the above but were just up front about not being able to give that kind of guarantee.

    Personally think he'd probably be one of the first names on their team-sheet, but there you go!
     
    inaiq and Limiescouse like this.
  8. TFC

    TFC TIA Squad Member

    Messages:
    7,182
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Depends on what the financial penalties are. The penalties could be worse than the loan fee. In an ideal world you're right, it would be best to find a club that rates the player...but practically speaking it doesn't happen. I think its being done as a compromise between what Inglethorpe wants and what Klopp wants. They either go out and get some first team experience (what Inglethorpe wants) or they stay and train with the first team (what Klopp wants).

    Edit: It may also open up loans to teams that we prefer to send the player to, but would not want to/cannot pay the loan fees
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
    inaiq likes this.
  9. inaiq

    inaiq "Some people feel the rain others just get wet"

    Messages:
    5,024
    Likes Received:
    3,354
    Interesting compromise scenario and it does appear to give us better control of our players.
     
  10. jgw_geneseo

    jgw_geneseo optimism in spades

    Messages:
    1,529
    Likes Received:
    854
    A question for someone who is familiar with new loan rules...if the agreed 75% game quota isn't met, could the player be recalled due to a breach in the loan agreement? I know there are new rules this year so no emergency loans or recalls, so maybe this is a way to try and skirt rules and recall a player if needed?
     
    inaiq likes this.
  11. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    5,793
    Sort of. The issue is with player registration and so we could recall a player who isnt playing but we wouldnt be able to play him.
     
    inaiq likes this.
  12. inaiq

    inaiq "Some people feel the rain others just get wet"

    Messages:
    5,024
    Likes Received:
    3,354
    I was about to post a similar question WRT Flanno (in the players thread) and thought I would check this thread first....
     
  13. He Drinks Sangria

    He Drinks Sangria Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    395
    I've just posted this in Flanno's thread but this seems a better place so I'll move it here:

    I'd love to hear what @Kopstar has to say about this '75% rule' and its enforceability with regards to injuries, lack of form, etc.
     
  14. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    15,389
    I'd imagine that injuries are taken into account and it's 75% of games the player is eligible for, rather than 75% total.
     
  15. Dave-D

    Dave-D Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    387
    I like the sound of this playing at least 75% of games. Would rather a player went out on loan to a club who may not be able to pay the kind of fee that would normally be required but plays nearly all games than a team who think the loan fee is acceptable for a squad player and the loanee never gets a game other than off the bench or when injuries occur
     
    Livvy likes this.
  16. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

    Messages:
    6,009
    Likes Received:
    9,212
    This is not new although the threshold of 75% might be - sounds quite high to me.

    Loan agreements have often come not so much with a penalty for not playing a loaned player but more of a 'rebate' on the total loan fee depending on the player's game time. Clubs have to be careful that they are not influencing selection to too substantial a degree but say, for example, you have a loan fee of £500,000 over the course of a season and ideally you'd like your loaned player to play at least 2,700 minutes over the course of that season (approximately 2/3rds of a Championship season) you might say that for every 10 minutes played over 2,000 the loaning club would get a rebate of, say, £5,000 on the loan fee with the ability of the club to reduce the total fee payable to £150,000 (capped).

    You would then have recall provisions if the percentage of minutes played (whilst the player was available) did not meet 2/3rds of the available senior competitive playing time the player could be recalled to the parent club (during the next transfer window) and a pro-rata loan fee would be payable.

    At the risk of repeating myself, simply because there's a loan fee payable does NOT mean that the player cannot be recalled - it all depends on the terms of the loan agreement.
     
  17. inaiq

    inaiq "Some people feel the rain others just get wet"

    Messages:
    5,024
    Likes Received:
    3,354
    Can I ask if you could explain how the new Loan rules and LFC's approach to Loans would effect for example If Flanno were to be loaned to Burnley. I did post my thoughts in the Fanno thread but I am pretty sure i got it wrong
     
  18. He Drinks Sangria

    He Drinks Sangria Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    395
    Ultimately, though, whether a player is 'injured' or not is subjective. If (and I'm being entirely hypothetical here) Burnley don't want to play Flanagan because he's been shite for them, they could just tell us he's not match fit and those games would go down in the calculation as ones for which he wasn't available.
     
  19. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

    Messages:
    6,009
    Likes Received:
    9,212
    You're right that the club will only be able to recall a loaned player during a transfer window (although they would be able to return at other times if injured - they just cannot be registered to play).
     
    inaiq likes this.
  20. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    15,389
    Judging by what we've heard about previous loans especially those involving our youngsters, our staff keep in pretty close touch with them throughout their spells with other clubs. I doubt such subterfuge would be possible when all we have to do is speak to our player to find out the truth of the matter.

    Plus any abuse of this system will see that club then quickly find themselves unable to loan any more of our players in the future.
     
    TFC likes this.
  21. jgw_geneseo

    jgw_geneseo optimism in spades

    Messages:
    1,529
    Likes Received:
    854
    Talk of Ryan Kent going on loan to Barnsley. My Uncle and cousin both season ticket holders for them. Just promoted to the championship. Their best player is probably Adam Hammill, one of our academy graduates from a few years back. I'll have them keep a close eye on him if true. They had a great season last year with two trips and two wins to Wembley (promotion and St. Johnstone's Paint something or other, what our academy team will be able to enter this year if they want). They should start the year out with great local support riding the wave of success from last year, but we all know it doesn't take long for that to come crashing down. I'm hoping this one happens.
     
  22. AllinOne Sports

    AllinOne Sports Member

    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    23
    Wagner could end up being a valuable ally in the lower levels of English football
     
  23. AllinOne Sports

    AllinOne Sports Member

    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    23
    Do you think he would be sure to get the 75% playing time or is a good player blocking him on the wing? Obviously that will likely be the key to get this deal done
     
  24. Nikola

    Nikola Optimist with a bit of experience. Admin

    Messages:
    15,174
    Likes Received:
    6,034
    Allan joins Hertha Berlin on loan, hopefully a good move for him as he'll get to play at a very high level. Perhaps another one of Klopp's connections in play?

    Edit: hmm, hold that one, now it seems that Bild are saying that he's joined them on trial.
     
  25. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    15,389
    Would be a bit of a surprise that given how highly he is rated, unless we've decided that he's unlikely to ever get a work permit?
     
  26. Nikola

    Nikola Optimist with a bit of experience. Admin

    Messages:
    15,174
    Likes Received:
    6,034
    Scratch that, I got the wrong impression because of poor Google translation. :-) He's off on loan, it seems., he's pictured in training with Hertha kit on.
     
    Zinedine Biscan likes this.
  27. Zoran

    Zoran Fighting like beavers.

    Messages:
    13,422
    Likes Received:
    5,774
    Potentially Europa League football for Hertha as well.
     
  28. jgw_geneseo

    jgw_geneseo optimism in spades

    Messages:
    1,529
    Likes Received:
    854
    They brought in quite a few young attacking players, a mix of forwards and attack minded mids, not sure who is a winger. They lost one of the wingers they played last year, hammill is the other, he plays mostly on the left, so right side is up for grabs, as is a spot up top or right behind the striker. But like I've said, they brought in decent amount of young attacking players, so he'd have to earn his spot. They started winning last year once they switched from 4-3-3 (that looked like a 4-5-1) with limited support for the one up top to a more traditional 4-4-2, with two strikers and wingers who would cut inside onto stronger feet and attack the goal.

    The other hiccup might come if John Stones is moved. Barnsley would get a nice windfall as they get a percentage of any sell on fee, and who knows what they'd do with that money.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  29. AllinOne Sports

    AllinOne Sports Member

    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    23
    Seems a lot less straightforward than it appeared from the outside. With all that competition for places and Kent being so young I wonder if this move actually ends up going through.
     
  30. jgw_geneseo

    jgw_geneseo optimism in spades

    Messages:
    1,529
    Likes Received:
    854
    Kent's probably a cut above everyone they have brought in, to be honest. Barnsley has theory to take players with potential to develop and possible make good money on down the road selling them or get good good value by signing them young and having them develop into reliable players they won't have to purchase later. They probably signed around 5 attacking players, 3 of which are strikers, but not sure if they can do a job out wide. Some of them will go into the u-21 squad, but for sure there is a outside mid spot up for grabs.
     

Share This Page