Lucas Leiva (CB/DM) Inter Milan (loan to permanent)

Discussion in 'Rumour Mill - Transfer Talk' started by StrongINTheAir, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Taxes? The big reason is Real Madrid, not many would be able to turn them down. If they come in for Gerrard, he would have been gone too. They were clear that Gerrard cannot be bought, but Alonso is another story altogether since Rafa did try and trade him off for Barry.
     
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  2. Mascot88

    Mascot88 Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders Moderator

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    Oh look. More Lucas Hyperbole.

    There was a lot more to the reason why we slipped back following the second placed finish, including, but not limited to...

    - The Owners sucking money out of the team

    - a massive injury crisis (at one point Rafa had ten first teamers out)

    - Rafa himself being exhausted from battling the owners.

    - the collective ennui in the squad at finishing second, knowing that in all likelihood they wouldn't be able to build (see fist point).

    Lucas was never meant to be Xabi's replacement - that was supposed to be Aquilani. The Italian couldn't get fit, and so Lucas ended up covering, Rafa effectively playing two DMs.
     
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  3. Mascot88

    Mascot88 Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders Moderator

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    Tell you what though, I'm glad this discussion is finally giving us all chance to get what we've always thought of Lucas off our chest. I don't know how the forum has managed without us being able to lay it out like this.
     
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  4. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    He's served as a useful lightning rod down the years for much of the player-related moaning and scapegoating. The slightly saddening thing is that like or not it will transfer to another player when he goes. Current favourites being Can, Firmino or the slightly riskier Clyne.
     
  5. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    Rafa never tried to trade him off for Barry. That is yet another false story that some people end up using for some weird reason. Rafa wanted to keep Xabi and buy Barry. We had interest to pay on a loan against the club so our owners, not Rafa decided to cash in on Xabi. Rafa tried his very best to try to get Xabi to stay. Just like he did the year before when he convinced Xabi to stay when Juventus wanted him.

    This time Xabi decided to leave and a big reason was the lower taxes in spain. You will find the quote on the net and that it was Real Madrid this time. His dream club that wanted him.
     
  6. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    "Alonso is refusing to commit himself to Liverpool next season, with Real Madrid eager to to take him to the Bernabeu, and with Alonso estimating he is losing a third of his earnings he is edging closer to a return to Spain.

    "Of course we footballers think about it; we are not stupid, we keep an eye on it," Alonso said. "When you see your contract down by 30 per cent you cannot be happy. I cannot do anything – it must be Gordon Brown or David Cameron.

    " I think the weakness of the sterling is not helping the Premiership because for those competing and fighting against the European teams it is a big weak point. Hopefully over the next few months and years it will get back to what it was not so long ago."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...rns-that-tax-will-drive-top-players-away.html
     
  7. Fester

    Fester Well-Known Member Valued Member

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    He knew that throughout his time at Liverpool. So what changed?

    The Spain international's departure to Real Madrid in the summer of 2009 came as little surprise after he came close to leaving the previous year.

    That was prompted by Benítez's failed attempts to sign Gareth Barry from Aston Villa, which convinced Alonso he had to move on.

    "At the end of that [2008] season, speaking to Rafa, he told me the situation and that he wanted to sign other players and I could be one of the replacements," said the Real midfielder.

    "If an offer would have come, probably I would have been sold.

    That's when I told myself that the situation had changed - from being a very important player to being one of those who can be sold to get funds to sign other players.

    I accepted it because I am a professional but you have to realise what your situation is.


    At the end nothing happened because there was no agreement and we started my last season in Liverpool."

    At the time Benítez was eyeing a move for Barry Alonso had just endured his worst season at Anfield since joining from Real Sociedad in 2004.

    In March 2008 Alonso refused to travel to Inter Milan for the second leg of Liverpool's Champions League knock-out match after his girlfriend had gone into labour and relations between the two, reportedly, were never the same again.

    However, seemingly spurred on by events, the Spaniard's final campaign was one of his best. In Alonso's final season Liverpool ran Manchester United very close in the title race with a record points haul.

    "I didn't feel I had a point to prove. I knew what I was capable of giving to the team and what I had given for the four years," he told LFCTV.

    "In the last one the team was really good. We were very competitive and it was a disappointment not to win the league.

    "I was really happy with the team and my team-mates and felt that we could do great things.

    "I was happy on that side but within a club you have to see the big picture and another season would have been too much for me.

    "It was very difficult to take that decision [to leave] but it was probably for the best for me because if I had stayed another season it would have been uncomfortable for me."

    Also from the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...after-feeling-unwanted-by-Rafael-Benitez.html

    Hmmmm ........ what to believe eh ........?

    ....... perhaps the version he came out with once he was safely out of the Anfield door ....... ?


    Anyway, isn't this supposed to be the Lucas Leiva thread ...... ???
     
  8. football.tiger

    football.tiger TIA Squad Member

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    This is just what happens when ya break up with "friend", don't worry about it boys...
     
  9. KCollins

    KCollins Active Member

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    The treatment of Alonso (which Fester dug up) was the second biggest error of Rafa's reign (the first not starting with the 4-2-3-1 that got us to the CL final, allowing Kaka to run riot in the first half).

    Rafa's biggest weakness was he was not a people person. He was machine like, unemotional, no arm around the shoulder, no pat on the back...also lacking in praise (Gerrard; "maybe I'll get a well done from him one day").

    Under Klopp, Alonso would never have left. Under Klopp, we wouldn't have been stuck with Lucas in the first XI.

    The importance of Henderson is really apparent when hes missing, and is further magnified when its Lucas who comes in for him...the Chelsea game especially. Also the contrast between the last two games couldn't have been greater.

    Lucas is not even an adequate back up.
     
  10. KCollins

    KCollins Active Member

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    Don't see that happening as they are three quality players. They enhance us (could argue we can do better than Can (prefer Wijnaldum due to his quicker tempo), but still he's not a weakness).

    We could have done ALOT better than Lucas, that's the difference. With him on the field our midfield was invariably second best against any quality opposition. Again, it's why Stevie lamented the loss of Alonso more than any other player that left. Had we had an adequate replacement Stevie's attitude would have been very different. We were a top team with Alonso, and a bang average one with the pedestrian limited fella that came in for him.

    Keegan leaving was never lamented because he was replaced by Kenny, Alonso's leaving was lamented because he was replaced by one Lucas Leiva.
     
  11. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    A lot of people are already on Can's back, and some on the others to varying extents. You see that changing when Lucas goes and people look for other reasons to be unhappy?
     
  12. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    The Can complaints are already happening so I'm not sure others agree with you there.
     
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  13. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    ZB,you is quick.lol
     
  14. KCollins

    KCollins Active Member

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    There are different levels of complaints/criticism. We are near the top of the league with Can being in and around the first team...so any complaints are not with as much merit. The fully justified complaints with Lucas were in the post Alonso years when we were pap. A midfield with Can in it has controlled far more games than any one Lucas was in.

    Lucas is also in a different category in terms of scapegoat. He's alongside Poulson...the only difference is Poulson was only here 5 minutes, Lucas, miraculously, a decade. The only comparable player that has been a weakness this season has been Karius, the fella who focuses more on flicking his hair than he does on the game.

    Everyone will have opinions about certain players being better (my preference for Wijnaldum in the team ahead of Can for example)...but then there are players that people cannot stand as they dramatically worsen the team. Lucas has always come into the latter category..just as the yard dog Fellaini does at United.
     
  15. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Is he leaving? If he isn't can we just lock this up please?
     
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  16. Mascot88

    Mascot88 Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders Moderator

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    Good shout on Clyne. Steady 7/10 player, unflashy, and hasn't scored yet.

    Can has taken an early lead, and he has the advantage that at only 22 he has plenty of career left to give him unwarranted grief.


    As detailed in Brian Reades excellent book 'Epic Swindle', Rafa's target was Gareth Barry. When Parry sought approval for a deal he had lined up for Keane, Rafa checked it would not interfere with the deal for Barry, and when informed it wouldn't, he gave the go ahead for Parry to conclude the Keane deal. When Rafa then tried to sort the Barry transfer he was told the money wasn't available, as it had gone on contract renewals and Robbie Keane. Rafa was fuming, but still wanted to sign Barry, so instead looked to fund it with a sale from the squad, and in his opinion Alonso had underperformed for the last two seasons. He could only get a sniff from Inter for 12m, so decided to stick - but the damage to his relationship with Xabi (along with an earlier fall out from Alonso taking leave to attend the birth of his child) had been done.
     
  17. James H

    James H "I dunno, I just work here"

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    Did clyne not score against Villa?
     
  18. Mascot88

    Mascot88 Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders Moderator

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    Can't remember. Possibly he did. I mean even Kolo scored against villa.

    Edit: It appears that he did indeed score against Villa. I have no memory of this. Apparently he also got one against Bournemouth in the cup. I don't remember this either.
     
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  19. James H

    James H "I dunno, I just work here"

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    Both unmemorable goals, the Bournemouth goal was a rebound I think, the villa one was just a scrappy one.
    I like clyne good solid full back, not the best offensively but not as blunt at we would be led to believe either.
     
  20. Etipafilaf

    Etipafilaf "If we want, this can be a real special day."

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    Bournemouth was after a teixiera backheel that was a beauty, essentially a rebound into an open net... villa was a terrific run and terrific vision from Firmino, that he stuffed in after Divock arguably earned a penalty off Clyne's initial "miss".

    Has has not, in a Liverpool kit, scored anything like he scored against us or Arsenal in a Southampton kit. It's part of the reason I think Trent is going to take his job within 2 years.

    Anyway this is the Lucas thread, and while I like him and see his value as a influence off the pitch, I'm ready for him to move on, I just can't take his silly fouls around the box anymore. I mean, he does stuff that you'd expect an academy lad in his first or second first team action to do, not a vet.... hopefully the fitness of Joe Gomez will mean Klopp is ready to allow him to move elsewhere.
     
  21. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    I wonder if next season sees Clyne switch to left back and Trent comes in at RB?
     
  22. CymruRed

    CymruRed TIA Youth Team

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    Oh sorry,i thought this was the Lucas transfer post.
     
  23. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    Well he injure himself so that he doesn't have to leave. So there ya go. Time for us to lock this up....
     
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  24. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    To be fair the last 2 summer windows he has been asked to stay, when poised to leave.
     
  25. CymruRed

    CymruRed TIA Youth Team

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    lol I know,sorry i was being sarcastic,8 pages and everytime i come in here to expect some news on Lucas,it's all talk of everything but transfer news.
     
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  26. indianscouser

    indianscouser Oh ya Beautttty!!

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    Ill put my money on whoever is our GK.
     
  27. indianscouser

    indianscouser Oh ya Beautttty!!

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    I doubt. Milner is currently untouchable.
    And i also wonder what happened to Flanno.
    For the likes of Trent, Stewart, Woodburn, it will be a solid 2-3 years of part time performance from bench & may be 5-10 starts a season.
    Its difficult for a young defender to break through compared to a CF/Attacking Mid fielder.
     
  28. KCollins

    KCollins Active Member

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    Cheerio lad.
     
  29. KCollins

    KCollins Active Member

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    Not long now...looks like his nine lives are up;

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...cas-future-jurgen-klopp-reveals-a7719496.html

    Been thinking is there any player I will be ecstatic to see the back off more than this bang average fella. I don't think there is. There may have been slightly worse players than him, Konchesky, Spearing, Traore, but they were only around the first team for a short spell thus the damage they caused to team performance was over a shorter period (Kenny picking Spearing vs Chelsea in an FA Cup final...the wee fella would have nightmares about his error that led to Chelsea scoring the opener but for the fact he would look back on being selected to play in that game as being the highlight of his championship/league one level career). I put it there is no single player that has caused more damage to the team in recent years than Lucas.

    When Lucas was bought as, quote "a goalscoring attacking midfielder", it soon became apparent he was anything but. Should have heeded journo Tim Vickery's warning that the Brazilian Serie A is not a gauge of a players ability given almost every quality Brazilian player now plys their trade overseas. Lucas at Gremio did not play in the Serie A of Zico's Flamengo, Romario's Vasco da Gama or Socrates' Corinthians. He's looked every inch the 4 million player we paid for him..he would still be a 4 million pound player now if he was the age we bought him at. With his lack of quality becoming apparent he was largely a reserve, until Alonso left. In came this fella, and thus began the downward spiral of the team. This trying to mould him into a defensive midfielder was bizarre personified. Defending is an art form, it's not a job you give to someone because they are inadequate at the attacking side of the game they were bought for. Knowing when to tackle, when to back off, track runners, shield the back four...Lucas was a free-kick waiting to happen (most recent was his late error at Sunderland which cost us two points, he also almost cost us in the last minute at home to Dortmund in the comeback game in gifting them a free kick at the edge of the box). It's not just that he can't tackle, it's also he doesn't have the mobility to keep up with play thus he's out of position in being left behind the opposing player which results in a rash challenge. He's not a defensive midfielder in the same way the striker Niall Quinn was not a goalkeeper despite him playing there when the goalie get sent off/injured. Roy Keane is a defensive midfielder, Didi Hamann is a defensive midfielder, Mascherano, Kante etc.

    Last season of Rafa the midfield was shocking...getting outplayed at Goodison (despite winning 2-0 via a Mascherano deflected strike) was the first time I began to worry with this fella in the team. Alonso wasn't replaced, a player 70% of what Alonso was would still have been adequate, but we didn't get that. Out went Rafa and in came Hodgson with Poulson, while not a top quality player he was still vastly superior to Lucas, as displayed at Seville, but as he was a Hodgson purchase he was hounded out along with the rest of Hodgsons' men. In came Kenny, which also saw Spearing and a few other youngsters given a run out (Flanagan and the other lad at full back). We leaked goals (something we've done since we last had a proper defensive midfielder) but the likes of Suarez, Kuyt, Gerrard and Maxi Rodriguez bombing forward made us exciting to watch. Ultimately we came up short. In came Rodgers and again, exciting to watch, great going forward with Sterling, Coutinho and Sturridge added to the attacking ranks, while still leaking goals for fun. Scorelines including 6-3, 4-3, and also 3-2 over Man City in 2013-14. Ultimately the weakness in the defensive side of the game cost us in the end. Klopp has come in, we have been great attacking wise, wide open at the back. Exciting games in the UEFA run, but very un-Houllier/Rafa like in that we concede easily (no Hamann or Mascherano screening the back line), then Seville in the final tore us to pieces. Been much the same this season, dominate possession, offer up few chances as a result of having this much possession, but once we do cough it up we are wide open defensively thus teams score easily.

    So that's been the career of Lucas Leiva, a midfielder bought for his supposed attacking ability, once it became obvious he didn't have any attacking ability he was somehow seen as being able to transition into a defensive midfielder, despite the fact he didn't have the ability to do that either. He's been linked with a move away almost every summer. His sell on value wouldn't have been much which is possibly why he's still here (lack of suitors also). He's hung around, and with the squad being so thin he's been put in this season due to injuries which has seen the most boring, slow, ponderous, stagnant midfield since Klopp joined. Klopp's mind boggling decision to play him over Lallana against Southampton could cost us CL qualification...a costly parting gift from Lucas.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  30. redbj

    redbj crowd fund for you to shut up give me the details

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    Tee hee....I'll kinda miss this when its all done.

    It'll be like a part of my childhood has gone forever....I'll be forced to move on and not just blame LL.
     
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