Random Football debate thread

Discussion in 'Pitchside - Football Forum' started by DeathOrGlory, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. DeathOrGlory

    DeathOrGlory Fortune Favours the Brave

    Messages:
    6,565
    Likes Received:
    1,849
  2. fcukManU

    fcukManU still a dani pacheco stan

    Messages:
    1,644
    Likes Received:
    394

    David James plays down race issue in football: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19918671
     
  3. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

    Messages:
    11,285
    Likes Received:
    12,308
    Read that James article in the metro the other day, thought he talked a lot of sense.

    He was spot on when he said some of the officials within the FA/anti-racism groups were trying to keep themselves relevant by making an issue out of something that isn't really there.
     
    DeathOrGlory and fcukManU like this.
  4. fcukManU

    fcukManU still a dani pacheco stan

    Messages:
    1,644
    Likes Received:
    394
    Yeah, agree with what you wrote. Glad James has spoken, I'm sick to death of hearing what Roberts and Carlisle have to say.
     
  5. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

    Messages:
    11,285
    Likes Received:
    12,308
  6. DeathOrGlory

    DeathOrGlory Fortune Favours the Brave

    Messages:
    6,565
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Not sure if she was going for a nutmeg or whether she just flunked it.
     
  7. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

    Messages:
    11,285
    Likes Received:
    12,308
  8. ShadesOfRed

    ShadesOfRed TIA Youth Team

    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    418
  9. DeathOrGlory

    DeathOrGlory Fortune Favours the Brave

    Messages:
    6,565
    Likes Received:
    1,849
  10. ShadesOfRed

    ShadesOfRed TIA Youth Team

    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    418
    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/1134?cc=4716
     
  11. OhYaBeauty

    OhYaBeauty Mamadou Sakho Fan Club Chairman

    Messages:
    5,506
    Likes Received:
    3,646
    Glad to see he's doing well there. Wish him nothing but the best. YNWA Dirk
     
    lancashirelad likes this.
  12. red to the bone

    red to the bone TIA Squad Member

    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    219
    Videos of two forgotten legends. Only in South America...



     
    fcukManU likes this.
  13. Ataturk

    Ataturk ★★★★★

    Messages:
    4,358
    Likes Received:
    1,032


    Neymar, what a player.
     
  14. DeathOrGlory

    DeathOrGlory Fortune Favours the Brave

    Messages:
    6,565
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Absolutely. Would love nothing more than him to stay in Brazil and show some loyalty. Bloody missed nowadays.

    Strange shirt number as well. 200.
     
  15. Ataturk

    Ataturk ★★★★★

    Messages:
    4,358
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    I'm eager to see him move to Europe (just not to England, unless it's us!), I think it's a bit of a comfort zone in Brazil now for him and he needs to be tested. Especially before the WC in 2014.

    He was wearing 200 because it was his 200th game for Santos I think.
     
  16. sami

    sami TIA First Team

    Messages:
    2,482
    Likes Received:
    107
    2nd part of my Bundesliga series. I posted the 1st here, somewhere. I think in the Bundesliga thread, can't seem to find the thread now. But here is the article
    ________________________________________________________________________________



    A LOVE AFFAIR WITH THE BUNDESLIGA (PART II)

    [font=Helvetica Neue'] 27/10/2012· by Sami Faizullah · in Specials. · Edit[/font]

    Bundesliga: Highest Average Attendance || Lowest ticket prices
    [​IMG]

    The Barclays Premier League has often been labelled the "best league in the world", take the top sides of England, add the two Spanish giants, and a couple of Italians still clinging onto their past title of "European Giants", and you have football through the perspective of a short sighted fan.

    It is not often that you get an ardent follower of the Bundesliga outside of Germany. Their global reach is not as convincing as the 'Big Three' leagues. Success in the Champions League is a contributing factor to such a judgement. But there is reason to believe that the above mentioned aren't the best in the world, that the Bundesliga forms the principle of "Best in the World" better than any other league.

    In the first part we took a look at the financial structure and records http://ootbfootball....sliga-part-one/
    We will now look at different aspects of the modern game to see where the Bundesliga stands, and why it could be, the best in the world (on paper atleast).

    Stadium Attendance
    Atmosphere generated by the fans can play a big role in determining the results of games. Every player performs that much better, and goes that extra step when the fans sing and chant his name. Its a natural tendency of players to respond to the passion displayed by the supporters.

    [​IMG] Dortmund's passionate support at Signal Iduna Park

    The atmosphere in Bundesliga stadiums is beautiful week in and week out. Whether that be at the home of the league leaders, or that of ones fighting for survival.

    The German Bundesliga has broken attendance records season after season. Taking into consideration all professional sports leagues in the world, the NFL (American Football) has the highest average attendance, by quite some distance. But that of course is a different format and includes the mega sporting event, the Super Bowl.

    The Bundesliga has the second highest average attendance for any professional sports league in the world, and highest for a professional football league. 45,116 was the average number of supporters per game in the Bundesliga for the 2011/12 season. To put that into perspective, the average attendance of the 18 Bundesliga teams for the 2011/12 season is more than the entire capacity of the home of the European Champions Chelsea FC.

    [​IMG] (NOTE: This is data for the 2011/12 season)

    As the above data shows, the Bundesliga has a significant upper hand in terms of average attendance.
    The Bundesliga has huge capacity stadiums. In the current 2012/13 season, 16 out of the 18 Bundesliga sides have a stadium with maximum capacity of 30,000 or more. So only 2 fall below that mark. Compare that to the Premier League, and there are 8 teams out of the 20 that have stadiums below the capacity of 30,000.

    The German league has obviously benefited from hosting the 2006 World Cup. Some of the stadiums were renovated for the mega sporting event but this renovation didn't involve much changes in capacity. Many of the stadiums were already capable of accommodating huge crowds. Fortunda Dusseldorf's LTU Arena (now known as Esprit Arena due to naming rights change) was not selected as a venue despite having a capacity of over 50,000. Getting a maximum capacity is important to fully utilise a stadium with huge capacity.

    [​IMG] NOTE: This is data for the 2011/12 season
    (Source: ESPN Soccernet)

    As you can see from the data given above, Dortmund has the highest average attendance for any professional football club in the world. What is more telling though is the fact that out of the 10 teams with the highest average attendance, 6 of those clubs are from the Bundesliga (marked in graph). Its no surprise then that the atmosphere in the stadiums is electrifying. There is encouragement for the fans to go to the stadiums and play as big a part as possible.

    [​IMG] Schalke fans at their 60,000+ capacity stadium Veltins-Arena

    Loud chants, traditional songs, synchronised moves, bouncing fans, banners, flags, flares and more, has made the fan culture impressive and has forced the footballing world to stop and take notice.

    Ticket Prices
    So we've seen in the previous part the financial stability of the Bundesliga model, we've seen how it is the most efficient in terms of revenue and we've seen here how the Bundesliga is dominating the footballing world with its attendance records. Now another remarkable fact about the Bundesliga is its unbelievably low ticket prices, that put the rest of Europe to shame. Fans are guaranteed value for money.

    Bundesliga takes initiatives to treat their loyal fans with respect. They are not seen as customers, but as we spoke about in the last part, they are owners as well. And they deserve to be treated accordingly. Ensuring affordable ticket prices is a good gesture from the club towards the fans.

    [​IMG] Home support at Werder Bremen's Weserstadion

    Moreover, there are attempts to limit season tickets so that more number of fans get to go to matches. The tickets also work as transport tickets ensuring that fans get to the stadium without any extra cost.
    The lowest basic season ticket price at the Signal Iduna Park (home of German champions Dortmund) will cost €187. No club in the entire Premier League, from Manchester United to Fulham to Norwich have a price that low.

    The average basic season ticket in the Bundesliga is €170, in the Premier League it is €577.

    The Premier League has seen a tremendous rise in prices, with a season ticket at the Emirates going as high as €2400. With an individual ticket costing as much as €155. It would cost a fortune for an Arsenal fan coming from out of the country to watch a game at the Emirates.

    At Dortmund the most expensive individual ticket is €50. Dortmund also has the most expensive season ticket, at €845. Half the Premier League has tickets more expensive than that including Queens Park Rangers who have a capacity of less than 18,000 and struggled with relegation last season and continue to do so. Even newly promoted West Ham United have more expensive tickets than the most expensive ones in the Bundesliga.

    Last season's Champions League runners up Bayern Munich offer season tickets starting from €300 going upto only €650. No club in the entire Premier League offer prices lower than that cheapest season ticket at the Allianz Arena. All newly promoted sides in the Premier League have more expensive tickets.

    A further look into English football throws up some more figures. 7 clubs in the Npower Championship (2nd division of England) have basic season tickets (i.e. the cheapest available) of nearly €500. No club in the entire Bundesliga have basic season tickets that expensive.

    We can get a further bit of perspective if we go deeper into English football. BBC conducted their Price of Football survey. Take Southend United, currently in League Two (and have been for sometime) play at Roots Hall, capacity of just over 12,000. The cheapest season ticket available is €430. That is some €250-€300 more than watching football at the home of the German champions, or even the Champions League runners-up (and host stadium).

    [​IMG] It would be more expensive to watch a football game at Roots Hall (left) than at Allianz Arena (right)

    To sum up the ticket prices, the lowest basic season ticket available in the Premier League is €315, in the Bundesliga it is €120. The most expensive season ticket in the Premier League is €2400, in the Bundesliga it is €845.

    The average basic season ticket price for a Bundesliga team in the Champions League (including Monchengladbach) is €168. The average basic season ticket price for a Premier League side in the Champions League is €737.

    Recently Dortmund fans protested against a price hike for a match against Hamburg, where the cheapest available ticket was €40. Every Premier League clubs' highest ticket price is more than that amount, moreover more than half the Npower Championship clubs have ticket prices more expensive.

    [​IMG] "No 20 Euros for a ticket"

    The numbers are telling, the Bundesliga offers a better atmosphere, match day experience, free transport at a cheaper price when compared to the Premier League. The top sides of the Bundesliga with capacity stadiums of over 50,000 offer cheaper prices than Premier League sides with capacity's of 20,000. And an often dull atmosphere.

    These figures have prompted experts to state that the Premier League sees its fans as customers, while the Bundesliga sees them as supporters.

    ----------------------​
    There is no doubt that these factors will benefit the Bundesliga with the footballing economy in a precarious position, and threatening to get far worse before there are any signs of it getting better. Regular loyal and passionate support is vital for the success of a football club. Its crucial that clubs take care of their supporters and treat them with the respect they deserve.​

    Here is part one of this series: http://ootbfootball....sliga-part-one/
    Follow @OOTB_football
    Follow @SamiFaizullah

    Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook....utsideoftheBoot


    ------------------------------------
    Special mention to BBC's Price of Football Survey and blog.uebersteiger.de for the ticket prices
    Charts made at iChart
    Picture credits: Bundesliga.theoffside.com; goal.com, debatefootball.com, ciderspace.co.uk, baviere-quebec.org

     
  17. DeathOrGlory

    DeathOrGlory Fortune Favours the Brave

    Messages:
    6,565
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Probably one of the best articles I've read in recent times. Nuff said.

    That the Premier League is called the best league in the world is laughable. Just look at the standard of refereeing.
     
  18. sami

    sami TIA First Team

    Messages:
    2,482
    Likes Received:
    107
    Wow. Thanks mate:-)
     
  19. DeathOrGlory

    DeathOrGlory Fortune Favours the Brave

    Messages:
    6,565
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Comparing the Aliianz Arena to Southend is a great comparison. The ticket prices were a really poignant point to make I think.
     
  20. Prolix

    Prolix Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,991
    Likes Received:
    1,755
    How brilliant is it that the match tickets are also transport tickets?
     
    sami and DeathOrGlory like this.
  21. sami

    sami TIA First Team

    Messages:
    2,482
    Likes Received:
    107
    And thats not the only League Two club which has tickets more expensive than Bundesliga teams.
     
  22. sami

    sami TIA First Team

    Messages:
    2,482
    Likes Received:
    107
    I have been pointed out by some readers that the Dortmund fans were protesting against 20 euros for a standing place, and not a ticket.
     
  23. lancashirelad

    lancashirelad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    493
    Well the FA are looking into the tapping up of Clint Dempsey in the summer, wow what a surprise whats the betting we get done big time just because we are Liverpool football club
    YNWA
    JFT96
     
  24. DeathOrGlory

    DeathOrGlory Fortune Favours the Brave

    Messages:
    6,565
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Any links to a proper news article from a proper newspaper or reliable source, please.
     
  25. REDSkins

    REDSkins TIA Youth Team

    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    742
    Not sure if anyone else watched the NY Red Bulls - DC United conference semi-final but that was an incredible game

    DC keeper Bill Hamid making a couple of epic saves then getting sent off bringing down Kenny Cooper

    Cooper sinks the PK but it's called back for encroachment (most aggressively by Thierry Henry)

    Cooper's 2nd attempt is saved

    Then Rafa Marquez is sent off (lucky to have not been sent off for passively punching Pontius in the face earlier) and it's 10 on 10

    Minutes later, DC United rookie De Leon scores the winner

    A nice FK chance at the end for NY but inexplicably, Henry doesn't take the PK and his teammate, not exactly a FK specialist, skies it. Game over

    I'm sure no one else cares about this but had to vent..!!
     
  26. Lucas

    Lucas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,174
    Likes Received:
    1,809
    A true genius of the game.

     
    scouseheadross likes this.
  27. lancashirelad

    lancashirelad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    493
    Apologies stil learning the nuances of the site
     
  28. JackleCube

    JackleCube Active Member

    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    232
    Can I just say, the articles about the Bundesliga are incredible.

    When reading the first one, about the 50+1 rule, and the emphasis on preventing sugar-daddies hence making the league competitive so any team can win. I find myself questioning Italian, English and Spanish football.

    Wage caps, spending caps, quota's etc are usually rubbished in the Premier League because people always jump to the conclusion that it will make our teams less competitive in Europe. Does this really matter though? I would be happy to see all our teams slump in Europe if all domestic football in our country was carried out in-front of full capacity crowds and actually felt like it meant as much as it used to to the man on the street.

    When you get down to the core purpose of football; entertainment (well, once upon a time), then what is more important? Proving your dominance in Europe, or providing quality entertainment in amazing atmosphere's to full capacity crowds?

    I think a more even league would be the best thing I could wish for in football. Take for example the popularity of Formula 1 since it became much more even and competitive; it's popularity is at an all time high.

    Are there any predictions for the future of the Bundesliga? Do "experts" predict that it will become the most popular league in the world any time in the distant future?
     
    DeathOrGlory likes this.
  29. Zoran

    Zoran Fighting like beavers.

    Messages:
    13,528
    Likes Received:
    5,950
    Mano Menezes just got the sack from Brazil.

    @cardiffpete, any idea/names who might takeover?
     
  30. DeathOrGlory

    DeathOrGlory Fortune Favours the Brave

    Messages:
    6,565
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    I'm no expert like Pete, but I'd be seriously looking at Bielsa.

    However, the Brazil manager merry go round is as bad as Chelsea's.
     

Share This Page