Random Football debate thread

Discussion in 'Pitchside - Football Forum' started by DeathOrGlory, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    Alternate which team goes first for each round of pens
     
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  2. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    It'll be decided by who has the most Money Money Money
     
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  3. Livvy

    Livvy Well-Known Member

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    No? ;-)
     
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  4. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    Ah man, that's much better than mine was. :-(
     
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  5. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    I had tried think of an ABBA track before asking the question that would be relevant but failed miserably :think:
     
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  6. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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  7. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    Fifa has opened an investigation into the transfer of Paul Pogba from Juventus to Manchester united,according to reports.

    The £89million paid by Jose Mourinho’s side was a world record fee, with the France international smashing the previous benchmark set by Cristiano Ronaldo’s move away from Old Trafford to Real Madrid.

    But after leaked documents showed how much super-agent Mino Raiola earned from the deal, football’s governing body has now opened an investigation into the deal.

    It’s claimed that Raiola earned a staggering £41million from the transfer, which is the focus of the investigation.

    The fee was said, by Football Leaks in their new book, to have been split into three separate payments.


    Raiola was reportedly paid a percentage of the transfer fee, which totalled roughly £22.8m, future payments to be paid in instalments (16.39m) and an extra payment to his agency based in Monaco (2.2m)

    Pogba arrived in a summer of heavy spending for the Red Devils, with Henrikh Mkhitaryan and Eric Bailly both arriving, while they also brought in Swedish great Zlatan Ibrahimovic on a free transfer.
     
  8. redaderry

    redaderry Well-Known Member

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    QPR !!! lol:well done:
     
  9. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    I see that FIFA are now concerned about corruption within the game as it relates to players' agents (intermediaries). Well, this is a situation they created and I warned about nearly two years ago when they first did away with the concept of licensed football agents.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39882054

    At the bottom of that article they say that they have concerns over the transfer of Roberto Firmino from Hoffenheim to Liverpool. They allege that Hoffenheim 'only' received £5.8m of a £29m transfer fee. The thing is that TPO wasn't banned in Germany when Firmino signed for Hoffenheim at the end of 2010 so the earliest any TPI could be bought out was upon the transfer to Liverpool. If there was TPI in Firmino's economic rights then this would explain the low figure paid to Hoffenheim who may only have had a 20% interest in his economic rights. With TPO now being banned you will see these sorts of discrepancies for a few more years as players who were last transferred prior to the ban are subsequently traded meaning that the TPI has to be bought out so that it no longer exists.

    [TPI - Third Party Interest
    TPO - Third Party Ownership]
     
  10. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    This is the crux of the Allardyce sting, right? Wasnt he explaining essentially how to pull off a transfer like Firmino's?
     
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  11. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Yep, that was the laughable thing about it. It was sold very much as "Allardyce suggests ways of getting around TPO" when in fact all Allardyce said was that you can get around TPO by buying out the TPI thereby removing the TPO. Haha. That's what's supposed to happen and yet it was presented as Allardyce bending the rules.

    That Telegraph piece (and the other couple of articles that followed) was a total fucking joke and I haven't bought the paper since in my own mini protest. Laughable. Where are all those further revelations that would follow? What's happened to the police investigation? Nada. Absolutely scandalous journalism and Allardyce was royally screwed over.
     
  12. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke.
     
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  13. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Not defending his character just the manner of its assassination.
     
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  14. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    I know, at the time I thought had it been anyone else I'd have been sympathetic as it was pretty ridiculous. But being Big Sam...

    Also, it's quite ironic that for someone over whom pretty big questions of corruption have hung for most of his career, what ended his dream job and the one he'd campaigned for for years after one game was such a non-issue.
     
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  15. kipland007

    kipland007 TIA Youth Team Valued Member

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    I have an incredibly contentious issue to bring up for debate: the existence of half and half scarves. This seems to be more or less the most hated object in "modern football," but as someone who has bought a few of them myself, I have a hard time understanding why people get so upset. Let me defend myself before people lose their minds.

    I am an American, and I live in America. I have been lucky enough to make it to a few Liverpool games and generally I have bought something to mark the occasion. I own three half and half scarves: my first ever game at Anfield which was a CL group match between us and Lyon in 2009 (we lost); the Carling Cup Final between us an Cardiff; and away at West Ham in 2014. I do not feel that the ownership of these makes me question which team I support. In fact, I think that's an incredibly silly way to rationalize it. Simply seeing the Cardiff or West Ham crest from time to time does not make me rethink my allegiances, nor does it mean that I support either of these clubs. It is a nice and relatively inexpensive way to remember the matches I've seen. I don't really ever wear them, they pretty much just sit in my closet or hang on a wall and occasionally I will see them and think of the memories.

    The biggest criticism of these items is that they are for "day trippers" it seems like, but I do not understand why this is such a hated thing in the culture around football. I understand the larger issues around local fans being priced out of games, but the existence of these scarves seems like an innocent by-product of this and not an issue itself. I also understand the conflict of buying something like a Man Utd/Liverpool or Everton/Liverpool scarf, but the cases of those are pretty rare and the hatred I've seen on social media and online is not just limited to those examples. I understand that I come to matches as an outsider and something of a tourist, but I sing as loud as I can and do my best to support the club while I am there. Who really cares what I choose to take home as a piece of memorabilia from the match? To me it really rings of the elitism of some fans and journalists who think foreigners and outsiders are destroying the English culture.

    So, there you go, I've admitted to apparently the cardinal sin of being a football supporter. What does everyone else here think?
     
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  16. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    They long pre-date this modern "football as a consumer" era. Hell I have two from when I was a kid - one a Celtic one because it's Celtic, and the other an Everton one from the first cup final. Back then though it was only for meaningful connections, so while I havent seen it, I can understand if it is taken as a marker of what has changed about the game by some who are feeling pushed/priced out of supporting their local side
     
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  17. kipland007

    kipland007 TIA Youth Team Valued Member

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  18. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    Why go for the scarf rather than the programme? Maybe because I have never managed to get a programme home before without it looking compeltely dog eared. As far as keep sakes go, it's a fairly crap choice. Just my IMO of course (and very likely reflects my relatively careless attitude towards material things)

    I just got back from the Masters in Augusta and bought a commemorative yardage book. It already looks like a score card I had in my back pocket all the way through a round in which it pissed down for all 18.
     
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  19. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    I don't mind half and half scarves if the fixture has some sort of romance about it - a half and half of Liverpool and Northampton Town for example. Better than the result.

    I can understand their popularity as a memento but if the two teams are genuine rivals I personally don't like them. However, my burning hatred for those sorts of scarves stems from 3 years ago when my brother-in-law had been doing some filming in Liverpool and brought back a scarf for my wife (who is an Arsenal fan). This was from the Everton v Arsenal game that Everton won 3-0. He gave it to her a few weeks later so that horrible piece of shit entered our house on Saturday 26 April.

    We were 5 points clear of Chelsea and 6 clear of City (having played a game more). I blame the introduction to my house of such a monstrosity for the events that subsequently unfolded.
     
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  20. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Retrospective bans for diving as from next season...about time although it doesn't address the unfairness that results from the 'dive' as against the opposing team. It's a good start though.

    Maybe in addition to suspending individual players the team of the offending player could also be hit with, say, a 1 point deduction. That would also act to further dissuade individuals from trying to cheat and act to at least partially address any sporting advantage obtained at the time.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39962886

    Diving bans: Football Association approves retrospective action

    Players who dive in English football will face bans from next season under new Football Association regulations.

    Under the new rules, passed by the governing body at its annual general meeting on Thursday, a panel will review footage from the weekend each Monday looking for cases of simulation.

    Any player unanimously found guilty of diving would be given a suspension.

    The panel will consist of one ex-match official, one ex-manager and one ex-player.
     
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  21. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    I like it in principle, but I am extremely apprehensive about the way it is going to administered. I suspect there will be teams who end up feeling even more hard done by by the inequitable application of this than if there wasnt a system in place at all.



    And I bet it's us.
     
  22. The Elusive 19th

    The Elusive 19th TIA Youth Team

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  23. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Agree @Limiescouse - with red card offences that inequity has become accepted as the practical realities of sanctioning individual behaviour. In theory the immediate opponents of the offending player's team benefit to the further detriment of the team against who the offence was originally committed. The original opponent is, therefore, punished twice - firstly by the consequences of the offending player's behaviour (lets say he causes a bad injury) and secondly by the sanction potentially being to the sporting benefit of rival teams.

    You're absolutely right to identify that the same inequity exists with this proposal. How do we solve that though? It may well be that the team offended against won the match anyway and didn't suffer any injuries so you could hardly give them a sporting benefit in that scenario. Maybe ensure that any sanction applied to the player is that they miss the next 3 games but also the next game against the same opposition if they were not to meet again within that period? A radical proposal could be that where a team has a player sent off they must play with one less man for 90 minutes against the same opponents. If, for example, a player was sent off in the 80th minute the next time the teams met that player's team would have to start the game with 10 men for 80 minutes before introducing an extra player.

    As for diving, suspending the player for the next game against the original opponent together with a sporting sanction for his team as a whole (say the 1 point deduction and, if the dive led to a penalty that was scored, the goal removed from the team's Goals For total and also from the opponent's Goals Against total) with the result further amended if that meant the score went from 2-1 to 1-1?

    Radical but maybe that's what's needed?
     
  24. Wyld@Heart

    Wyld@Heart Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I can already see a panel made up of Howard Webb, Alex Ferguson and Phil Neville... Woe is us.
     
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  25. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    I'm not against even radical considerations to help the game be officiated more equitably. However, those issues are not my concern. See @Wyld@Heart for really what my concern is. When we live in a footballing culture of ex pros who incessently trot out trite irrelevances as a perspective on that game ("Well, he had every right to go for that ball." "I played my whole career and never once "intentionall" handled the ball") then I have concerns about the intellectual capacity to administer this stuff properly.
     
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  26. Wyld@Heart

    Wyld@Heart Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely right. Rather than a cold, clear overseeing process it is likely to become a victim of subjective 'analysis'.
     
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  27. The Elusive 19th

    The Elusive 19th TIA Youth Team

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    What happened to Jovetic - I see that Mcity sold him to Inter in some weird Loan-Buy deal and then Inter loaned him to Sevilla, where is doing to be a bit ok-ok.
    He is 27 now and he is nowhere what he promoised to become. Did move to Mcity derail his career? Or some kind of injury? Or attitude issues?
     
  28. The Elusive 19th

    The Elusive 19th TIA Youth Team

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    What happened to Jovetic - I see that Mcity sold him to Inter in some weird Loan-Buy deal and then Inter loaned him to Sevilla, where is doing to be a bit ok-ok.
    He is 27 now and he is nowhere what he promoised to become. Did move to Mcity derail his career? Or some kind of injury? Or attitude issues?I remember @Nikola was a fan at that time 4-5 years back
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017 at 9:52 AM
  29. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    Mainly injury, I think. Certainly his time at City was a bit Sturridge-like.
     
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  30. Nikola

    Nikola Optimist with a bit of experience. Admin

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    Guy just scores against Liverpool and Real Madrid anyway! Injuries have taken their toll on him, he should have been the best player to come out of Montengro ever - even better than Savićević and Mijatović, players who have scored in CL finals and won them. I doubt he will remain at Inter but I'm not sure that Sevilla will pick up the option to sign him.
     
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