Should we make a 'big statement' signing this summer?

Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by SirBillShankly, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. KillerBeeLFC

    KillerBeeLFC TIA Reserve Team

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    I think it is 8th I may be wrong. We are still a very attractive club for most players. With the attitude that we arent good enough to get top players we will never be good enough. If we show some intent these players are more likely to join us. We have some really great young talent but the squad is lacking real leaders. \we have injuries every year and we make the same excuses for the club. If this and this player wasnt injured wed of not had that bad run. Bullshit, get players in who are already of a certain standard then the young potential doesnt have to be put in until we are convinced 100% they can do the job.

    Substitutes v Burnley
    • Karius
    • Gomez
    • Moreno
    • Lucas
    • Woodburn
    • Wilson
    • Alexander-Arnold
    I cant be happy about that bench. We can only get away with those options so many times. These are players that should be coming on when we are a couple of goals up or cup matches until they outshine their senior counterparts not when we need a win to have hopes of champions league.

    I do believe we are in safe hands with klopp I just worry a bit about the owners and if they are blowing smoke up our arses
     
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  2. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

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    If we were to get Brandt and Griezmann we would have by far and away the best attack in the country, I'd pick that side all day long. Absolutely no chance of getting Griezmann though.

    We're never going to compete for the top, established players, we should be looking for the Reina, Mascherano, Alonso, Suarez, Torres, Coutinho, Sturridge, Mane profiles. High quality youngish players who haven't quite reached the top level but have the ability to do so. Do the likes of Paredes, Brandt etc fit that bill? None of the above I posted were plucked from obscurity, they were all well known, highly rated players. There surely must be plenty of those around who interest us and who we can attract if we qualify for the CL.
     
  3. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    As would (probably) be the cost of bringing in Griezmann and Brandt. Just wanted to try and put two circumstances forward that'd be roughly equal. Doubt either circumstance would be what we do which will probably be somewhere nearer the middle but also less eye watering on the financial side.
     
  4. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan The patient one

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    Personally think Brandt would be a lot less. If there's a rumoured £18m clause coming into effect in 2018, I doubt he'd prove over twice as expensive this coming summer.

    Was just point out that Pulisic will likely end up being 'half a Griezmann', so the expense of adding 9 mid-range players, even if he's the most expensive of the 9, would make the cost of the second team a lot higher than the first. Which is probably why it also looks a lot better!
     
  5. Arminius

    Arminius FSG PR plant Moderator

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    Yes, it is 9th. We are behind ManU, City, Arsenal, and Chelsea in the PL, Barca, Madrid, Bayern and PSG in Europe. As we were knocking around yesterday, there is a significant gap between Arsenal in 7th and the top six
     
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  6. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    That's a lot of words to not even address Mascott's point. This isnt an excuse of a bad run of form. It is specifically addressing the reason for the number of kids on the bench, something we have done ok results wise while having to resort to. No one would be happy with that being our standard bench, but it was a game in which four players who would ordinarily be in the strongest side were unavailable thorough injury. It was further compounded by long terms injuries to two players who would ordinarily provide us strength on the bench. Other than a keeper, that is an entire bench out missing and has required us to drop to players 23 in the squad list. Two of the squads ahead of us in the league do not have squads big enough to accommodate such a loss without also resorting to kids, and I would argue they both have to resort to untried and unfancied players far earlier than when missing 4 first team players. United are probably the only side who have that depth of senior players, and that's just because they've accumulated a bunch of senior players the manager doesnt like. I'd rather have kids on my bench who have a future than alienated, highly paid players who hate their manager. Furthermore, fuck united. They are behind us and will stay behind us so their way is hardly the solution.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  7. Artrain

    Artrain Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe so many people are saying no to a statement signing. First of all, put the thought away that big statement has to be big money. Second of all, forget the notion that big name players all turn out to be shit / massively underwhelming. That depends on the system of the club being compatible to the style of the player. Big statement is just that: a statement of intent. It doesn't have to be made by splashing 90 million. It can be either a kind of signing that the club succeeds in making despite interest of several other big clubs, or it can even simply be a signing from another big club. Example, Henrikh Mkhitaryan at £30m odd was still a statement signing. Ikay Gundogan at £20m odd was still a statement signing. Zlatan Ibrahimovich for free was a statement signing. N'golo Kante for £35m or something was a statement. Don't tell me we can't pull out that sort of money. The question is can we convince the player?

    And that is what the statement signing is all about. If the club can convince its own players of its intent to win trophies, then it convinces the fans too. More importantly it can convince other half-minded players around the world who are not sure whether LFC would be a good place to come, whether it intends to win anything. A lot of players earlier were more attracted to Liverpool because Gerrard was here. I'm sure I've read such a comment at least once from Torres and Suarez. And though Stevie was not a signing, he was still a statement to the players out there: we have a world class player here.

    If Arsenal tomorrow lose Sanchez and Ozil, they're going to massively struggle to get any of their primary targets, because players of similar talent are going to question why those two would leave. It is the reason why Manchester United and Chelsea are more attractive places for any kind of highly talented players out there despite them having recently been in the same Champions-League-less situation as us: they show an intent to want to win, and that naturally attracts winners.

    If we want cement our place as top four material, then IMO we absolutely have to show some intent in our signings otherwise we're always going to lose out to Arsenal and Chelsea and United and City. If there is a player out there that would be perfect for our system, even if he's with another big club or even if we have competition, give him what he wants and f*cking get him! At some point you have to be stubborn. You have to show some balls and stick to what you want instead of just weakly moving on to the next best, or the next best, or the next best. What if we'd had competition for Mane last summer? Who'd we have bought? Is it likely his substitute would have been as good? We might have saved £10m but at what cost to our season? Just look at Karius (okay this might sound like low blow in direction of the manager, but its just an example and you can't disagree the possibility). Our primary target very well might have been Horn or ter Stegen. They're both valued at plus £30m. We meekly backed off. A good goalkeeper investment is generally once in a blue moon type of thing. Had we paid top money for one such keeper, they'd have given top service for next ten years minimum. But again there is lack of strong intent.

    I personally definitely think this needs to change, and we do need to start being able to make statement signings if we want to be seen as a big club. As it stands, we're not just below our premier league rivals in the pecking order, but we're even below the likes of Dortmund (who seem to love hoarding talent, the bastards) and Athletico and PSG to name a few.

    PS: Might I add another point that struck me when reading another post that, IMO, making a statement signing even helps retain your top players. They're much less likely to leave if they think the club is taking serious steps to add other top players in the squad.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  8. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    In the history of Premier League, the only time we made a statement was the signing of Torres. Signing Suarez was hardly a statement of intent after selling off Torres and at the same time Ajax couldn't wait to get rid of the hungry Uruguayan.

    Most of our statement of intent came from the managers we apppinted throughout the Premier League era. We did that with Benitez and now with Klopp.

    As a club we rarely do statement signing of players in this premier league era, we do however appoint managers that make headlines. At times silly ones and a couple of times we got it right, well at least this time FSG got it right with Klopp.
     
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  9. Dane

    Dane IN SUPPORT

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    Dont understand why we're behind Chelsea, unless the owners personal fortune is included in the club value.
    I haven't researched it, but I'd be fairly sure their wage bill is higher than ours. Their local authority business rates will be significantly higher.
    When you couple that with our ground capacity being much higher than theirs and I would suspect our global merchandise appeal also greater, I dont see how they are higher.
    I'd expect the same to apply in our comparison to Man City shortly, for the same reasons.
     
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  10. Arminius

    Arminius FSG PR plant Moderator

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    The measure is on revenue, not profitability or club value - and their wage bill is not nearly as much larger than ours than many people believed (including me). Chelsea has about 44 million Euros higher revenue. Also note that the figures are based on reported data, which means the Anfield expansion has not had an effect. But with the old size, while Anfield was somewhat smaller, Stamford Bridge produces significantly higher revenue due to pricing - their matchday revenue was 93M to LFC's 76M. You are not wrong about merchandising, but their other commercial revenues are higher, the net is a bit of a wash - their overall commercial revenue is 163M to our 160M. They gain a great deal from broadcast revenue (which won't be the case this year(due to no CL either), 192 to our 168.

    For City, they are now well ahead despite being behind LFC on matchday revenue even before Anfield was expanded - 70M. But their commercial revenue is 239M, and no longer just dependent on the Etihad deal - although that remains most of it. Their broadcast revenue is also 216M, well in front.

    Numbers are from the 2017 Deloitte report.
     
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  11. Da Bulli

    Da Bulli Well-Known Member

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    " A lack of European football in 2016/2017 may see Chelsea overtaken by Liverpool in next years Money League". Deloitte , Jan 2017
     
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  12. rupzzz

    rupzzz TIA Regular

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    Statements of intent in football mean jack shit imo.

    You see more failures than success. Pogba for £89M looks as useful as Charlie Adams £10M corner kicks.

    Main focus has to be on Klopp getting the right players in for the team, whether they cost £2M, £25M, or £105M. That said, I would expect us to bring in 5-6, of which a couple will be more expensive.

    I don't give a monkeys how much each of them costs...it's about the impact they can make. If Klopp feels we need to go spend £80M on PEA, then so be it - that may be viewed as a statement, but to me its more about the player fitting.
     
  13. Steve_LFC

    Steve_LFC Well-Known Member

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    The big name player that would constitute a big statement probably wont come here anyways. So better aim at players a level below who can still have a huge impact. And may be attainable.

    Basically more Manes'
     
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  14. Chewbazza

    Chewbazza True Believer

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    I guess the one positive we can offer as a club (which is not actually a positive or something you want to sell to potential targets) is that with Torres, Suarez, Sterling, Mascherano, Alonso we have shown if you come here and do well there is the opportunity to earn a move to a different club for the right price.

    The trick would be to get these kind of players all at the same time so we can start winning things again and hope they will see they don't need to move on.

    As for statement signings, for the right player at the right price, absolutely. But don't sacrifice the bigger picture to try and accommodate someone who doesn't fit how we want to play.

    Mane has been perfect for us, but we need another 3 players who are that good, and for more consistency from the likes of Firmino and Coutinho as well as a proper CB partnership and a striker who's never even met the medical team. Statement signings aren't essential to our plan (if we have one) but we sure as hell need more and better squad options beyond the 1st 11.
     
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  15. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    There is that, but I think more importantly is that we can demonstrate that good performances for us is a good enough currency that they dont need to move on to Real or Barca. Can got call ups to Germany while playing for us. Coutinho established himself in a revitalized Brazil side and Firmino now has been called up again. If we're looking at someone like Lacazette wanting to play for France in the world cup in 18 months time, 30 goals for us next season will mean a hell a lot more to Deschamps than another 30 for Lyon will.
     
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  16. KillerBeeLFC

    KillerBeeLFC TIA Reserve Team

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    Substitutes v Burnley
    • Karius
    • Gomez
    • Moreno
    • Lucas
    • Woodburn
    • Wilson
    • Alexander-Arnold
    No excuse for that bench. Furthermore, I didnt mention utd and its out of our hands now whether they leapfrog us into 4th

    I was going by these

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes'_list_of_the_most_valuable_football_clubs

    http://www.totalsportek.com/money/richest-football-clubs/

    dont know where to look for the correct info
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  17. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    Injured players - Lovren, Henderson, Ings, Sturridge.. Add those into the mix..

    Subs Bench - Karius, Gomez, Moreno, Lucas, Can, Sturridge, Ings.

    We don't have the biggest squad, but with the lack of European football it is pretty adequate.. The problem is we always seem to get injuries to key players in batches, never 1 player, always 2-3 which would decimate most squads.
     
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  18. Gazmaninaus

    Gazmaninaus Well-Known Member

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    I think the statement should be how we want to play next season, and buy according to that.
    .
    If we want to press like buggery, we need to upgrade our fullbacks, midfield, and such. Now that's the statement signings, I want.
     
  19. KillerBeeLFC

    KillerBeeLFC TIA Reserve Team

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    Out of the injured players Ings and studge werent getting a game anyway, its debatable whether Lovren is good enough and it could even be debatable whether hendo is.

    The problem is we always seem to get injuries to key players in batches but never plan for it. Same excuses every year for us dropping off. Its no problem buying exciting young talents but we need experience too. We need more experienced winners. We are like a stepping stone for players now and were just accepting it and have done for years. Were Europes Southampton
     
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  20. eng.amohd

    eng.amohd The false nine

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    I strongly disagree. A fully fit Sturridge would get easily in the side, but has been struggling for fitness, let alone form. With only the league to play in seriously, you cannot buy another Mane and bench one of them.It would do more harm than good.

    You can add Grujic who missed through untimely injuries, and Sakho too whose problem came unexpected and we didn't have enough time to sort out a replacement to the subs bench.
     
  21. Mascot88

    Mascot88 Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders Moderator

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    This is the bit that is so frustration. You want Liverpool to do something no other club is doing. You seem to want us to stockpile experienced, first team ready players, on the off-chance players get injured.

    No decent player is moving anywhere to sit on the bench for six months waiting for the two lads ahead of him to get injured. How do you keep them match fit? How do you keep them happy?

    If Chelsea lose Cahill, Kante, Costa who comes in to replace them? (Probably Zouma, Loftus-Cheek and and Batshuyi). Then what does their bench look like? Not that much better than ours.

    When we have European Football next year, and the game to warrant a bigger squad, then I think we'll add players. Until then it is unrealistic.

    The correct approach the issue you raise is to look at why players get injured and try to mitigate this, either by looking at the training regimes or better medical care.
     
  22. Mascot88

    Mascot88 Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders Moderator

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    If we, as I suspect we will, move on the lads who can't get near the side like Stewart, Sakho, Sturridge, Ings and Moreno and a few other fringe lads, and bring in some quality wide options, a centre back and a left back, then I think we're in good shape for a European campaign and have plenty of depth for the league.
     
  23. Da Bulli

    Da Bulli Well-Known Member

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    Hoping to help, the 2 links you've used both use Forbes "rich" list based on club valuation by Forbes , which is a hairy old chestnut...a few different ways that can be done. The Wikipedia link you looked at shows Forbes estimates as at May 2016. The totalsportek link appears to show Forbes estimates as at Jan 2017.
    Arminius was referring to Deloitte's money list which is based on revenue only.
     
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  24. Fester

    Fester Well-Known Member Valued Member

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    Should we make a 'big statement' signing this summer?

    No! We should make big statement signings. We need to bring in a number of quality first team players not just one big name. Its a big ask but that's what is required.
     
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  25. Foldy

    Foldy Well-Known Member

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    FSG are running a business, Abramovich is financing a dream. Granted he hasn't spent as much as he did back a few seasons ago but he'll have to finance a massive chunk of their new ground. FSG expect to get their money back and then some on our expansion. Have to say though you can't knock them for the money they've spent on signings since they took over. It's just a pity that Kenny, Commoli, Brendan and our enigmatic transfer committee didn't always spend it wisely.
     
  26. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    Iago Aspas. Was on the verge of a Spanish call up when we signed him, and is about the best you can get to come in for that role. And he was a total bust. I read news this morning of some Iranian lad who plays in Russia who claims we contacted him in Novemeber about joining us in Jan and he said no because precisely because he didnt want to play that role in the squad.
     
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  27. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    Azmoun? I dont think we handled Aspas well. Good to see him flourish again in Spain (and as a back up to the national side).
     
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  28. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    That's the lad.

    It's possible we did not handle Aspas well, but it's also pretty clear that Aspas himself did not handle that role very well. It's a hard one to play - to be good, but know you have almost zero chance of playing if everyone is fit no matter how well you are playing and so subsequently only get a game every 2 months. Look at Alcaer at Barca this year. I think it took him until about Feb to score his first goal.
     
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  29. rab

    rab Well-Known Member

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    No.

    Buy the right players. With the right skill set. The right attitude. And the right desire.

    Don't care if they cost £5m or £50m. Get the right player, not the big name.
     
  30. Eintrachtfan

    Eintrachtfan The convinced one

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    yes
    that's the solution
     

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