Discussion in 'The Albert - LFC Talk' started by Makati Red, Apr 12, 2017.
Well spotted sir!
The phrase 'for all intents and purposes Rafa was sacked' would cover Constructive dismissal. So he was correct.
Off topic I noticed somebody in here said that Rafa isn't a legend. Have to disagree. Istanbul and a champions league final in 2007 plus FA Cup and Super Cup makes him a legend for me
You clearly don't understand truth.
There are lots of quotes online that already give an indication. Without going to the autiobiographis quick 2 minute google brings up:
Kenny Dalglish (On Rafa and Broughtons reposne too him)
Martin Broughton himself in an email about the sacking of Rafa to Jim Boardman:
Torres on Rafa getting sacked:
For me Broughtons word is only from his perspective, but not an accurate account of history. This is clear from Kennys statement, which completely goes against his stance of not wishing to be picking a new manager.
I said in my opinion he is not, I understand others will view that differently, but for me he is an icon, fan favourite whatever you want to call it but not on the level of legend.
Maybe Rafa knew that he would be sacked later. Five votes on every business decision. We know that both Gillett and Hicks would vote Rafa out and Purslow most probably do the same. Then it wouldn't matter if the other two voted Rafa stay.
He didn't had any chance to stay so he decided to leave and did it before they voted on it.
Purslow singing I got Roy, I got Roy, I got Rooooooooooy, I got Roy, I got Roy, I got Roooooooy, isn't a myth.
In the book an epic swindle the story is that Purslow demanded that Rafa would be sacked or else they wouldn't get his vote.
If Purslow had voted G&H staying then the club wouldn't been sold. They needed his vote to get rid of Gillett and Hicks. Royal Bank of Scotland demanded that the club paid the loan. Gillett and Hicks couldn't do that so they was forced to sign a document that said that they didn't had the majority decision.. Instead they only had 20% each so they couldn't now be voted down by the other three.
Not sure I quite follow your argument vis-a-vis Dalglish, firstly because it is not clear whether or not that conversation predates Rafa's departure. If it is after, Broughton hardly had a choice but to be party to the selection of another manager. If it is before, it surprises me on Kenny's part, but it could equally be read as Broughton demurring, quite possibly because he would have realized he had to keep Dalglish onside at all costs. In the second case, it is Broughton declining to appoint Dalglish as a manager - is there a possible answer if Dalglish has put the question that Broughton can make that isn't 'appointing a manager'?
In the Boardman email, Broughton states that Rafa was released from his contract, with hardly conflicts with his account now. I discount the information reaching Torres (and most of the other players) completely, but the squad knew the truth of it - Rafa's position had been untenable for months. Anyone in the sport knows that 'mutual agreement' covers a wide range of outcomes.
Taken as a whole though, I have seen nothing from Broughton that contradicts the idea that Purslow pushed Rafa out, which at least required Broughton's tacit acceptance. The fact that at some point Rafa saw no further point in conducting the dialogue and allowed his lawyer is a mechanism by which the process ended, not the process.
The premise of his statement is that he should not be selecting a new manager, as he is only temporarily at the club with primary purpose to find a new owner. It should be the new owners who decide who the manager is.
If you take this on face value, the response to Dalgish is an illogical one. You can appoint a proven manager, already employed by the club on a temporary basis, or you can effectively make the choice for the next owners by giving Hodgson £9M contract. As a side it should be noted rumour of Hodgson being our next manager 3 weeks before Rafa was sacked.
On the email, the part I should have highlighted the sentence before the one you refer.
I think its disingenuous to say he wanted to keep Rafa, when in response to an email saying it was wrong to sack Rafa he states “I’m sorry you think like that but you are entitled to your opinion. I note your opinion doesn’t seem to be shared by the media.”
sad shit really.
such awful times, and such a horrible way for it to finish for Rafa at this club.
I was convinced he would deliver 'it'....after the 09 season, with those results, those players...it seemed only a matter of time....to me Rafas emotionless additude was the perfect foil for such an emotional club, with such emotional leaders (Gerrard/Carra)....the 'port' in the storm when things got too carried away...the level head...we needed that just as much as we needed the raw passion the local lads brought....Istanbul being the perfect example, Rafa got us there with some masterclass tactics, but when we got their, it was the raw emotion of this cub that got us over the line....what twelve months does, eh?
some interesting perspectives in this thread, but on the whole, probably is just better left unsaid.
Rafa to me, will always be the pinicle of that era of football...im often left wondering how Ferguson picked up so many league titles when Rafa didn't even get one...I know evidence suggests otherwise, but to me, Rafa was the better 'pure' manager.
Don't really believe everything Broughton is coming out with.
If Rafa wasn't sacked he was certainly pushed,ie.put in a position that he couldn't and wouldn't wear.
Given the reign of G&H he did a lot better than others may have done.
Rafa was,imo,a damn good manager and I was appalled to see him go,and even more appalled at his replacement.
Only now,with Klopp,while I love Kenny,do I genuinely feel we have a manager who will get us where we all want to be.
Rafa,did it.CL.and the rest.
Even from Broughton's recent statements, it is obvious he did not do anything meaningful to prevent Rafa from leaving. Not quite sure I fully accept the conclusion you are drawing from the Dalglish comment, because I think having Kenny as manager starting that August would have been extremely dangerous for Broughton. Fair point about the 9 million though, it was fairly evident that Purslow thought he had pulled off a master stroke getting Hodgson, and that quite possibly included Broughton as well.
One person's opinion expressed to a tabloid newspaper is not the truth, it is that person's opinion.
He is expressing the facts as he remembers them its not an opinion its what he remembers actually happening and i am pretty sure if Rafa had issues with what is being said i am sure he would have briefed his PR machine to let the world know that wasnt the case
So you believe everything you read? Well I have the deal of the century for you my friend. As a member of TIA I'm doing special discounts on Unicorns but only while stocks last.
The state of it.
- a lot of what he says IS opinion. He doesn't and didn't know Rafa's mind, he is drawing his own conclusions based on what he saw.
- Broughton is: a finance man, not a football man, a Chelsea fan, someone who was brought in by the bank to oversee our sale, someone with zero affinity for the club. Why his word is now being taken as gospel escapes me.
- Rafa has an agent. Broughton is an old-school, City fuddy-duddy who has no experience of such things. When he says "had a full-time PR person", how do we know he isn't simply referring to Rafa's agent?
- Even if Rafa did take on someone to handle his PR, so what? At the time his reputation was being trashed in the press, no doubt in part to all the secret press briefings by G&H and Purslow who all wanted him out. He had not only his reputation but also his future career prospects to consider, so it was probably a smart move to bring in an expert to shield him from some of it... if that is what happened.
- describing a single person as a "PR machine" is ridiculous hyperbole.
- If he did bring in a PR expert at that point in time, there is zero evidence that he continues to employ one.
- No doubt Rafa would rather let sleeping dogs lie rather than kick that hornets nest again, so any silence on his part shouldn't be taken as tacit acceptance that Broughton's account is correct.
No one is doubting Broughton. His integrity cant be questioned through his dealings with Liverpool.
He tells the truth as he sees it. That doesnt mean his view or understanding is correct.
The part about Boardman's opinion not being shared by the media irks me no end. We all know the hatchet job that the media did on Rafa during his time here from criticisms of his style to outright insults like being called a fat spanish waiter. That those at the top used the media as some sort of litmus test for the job Rafa was doing is a disgrace.
Yeah, appointing Hodgson was totally contradictory with his intial stance on interfering the least possible on the football side. As a matter of fact, he interfered, or at least, allowed Purslow to interfere a lot when it should never have been the case. Purslow was a real cancer anyway.
Thats the fairest way to put it
To be honest, this is the guy that replaced Benitez with the owl. Enough said. Also, the fact that he whines about Benitez not meeting him for breakfast (as if that was vitally important) says it all - he is your typical CEO type, self-absorbed. I give him credit for getting rid of the cancers though. But the bit about 6 LBs and 'none of them have worked out' is just BS. I am not surprised Rafa didn't respond to this - he was probably thinking to himself that this guy is just another wanker and he may well have been right.
I think it is a perfectly valid question to ask about why previous buys havent worked out/why the next one is likely to. I dont think he had much say in who replaced Benitez. He was probably there to sign stuff off as well as finding the new owners, and not much else.
Also remember the context. As much as Rafa deserves lots of credit, and as much as the club didn't deserve it, we were in drastic financial situation that summer. Broughton knew this. For Rafa to come to him with a list of demands (get rid of player x and bring me player y it'll only cost this much) would have made Broughton (or anyone) say "dafuq"! We needed Rafa to work with what he had. Develop some players from the academy to use as squad fillers, maintain a solid core and wait through the ownership issue being resolved. That clearly wasn't an option. Love him for what he achieved but Rafa is a manager that requires a revolving door approach at his clubs. It was his demands on that scene that led to him leaving Inter so soon.
But Rafa's was correct at Inter. The players were pretty much knackered by the time he got to them, so they did need more players coming in if the club was to achieve what those running the club wanted.
He had the biggest, most expensive squad in Italy with the largest wage bill and demanded they give him the backing to increase it or sack him. Sometimes Rafa fails to see the bigger picture. He needed changes at Inter but failed to see the context and made his demands. Wasn't surprised he was let go with those demands. If they'd backed him it would have bankrupted an extremely over stretched club.
I think Inter proved that Mourinho was by far the superior manager of the two,
Rafa just loves to play politics whichever club he goes to.
If he just focused on Football I am sure he would have got better results.
The problem for Rafa is he is just too intelegent for training footballers to be the only thing in his life which certainly isnt the case with someone like Mourinho.
Shame that some fans had to do this with someone that won us the Champs League title, and widely known that he was forced out of the club but still defended an article full of opinions of someone's view as fact. The politicking has been going on as soon as Purslow came on to replace Parry. Parry is inept, bad for business, but he isn't the type that plays politics, Rafa is getting way too strong in the club that the owners can't seem to shake him off. Parry not wanting to lay his hands on the issue too and it was clear as sky that the owners wanted Rafa out - by exploring the possibility of getting Klinsmann in. Clear as sky. The owners at that point don't have the balls to do it because they are afraid of fans backlash.
All that was happening while they slowly pulled the carpet under the club's feet. They dished out a lot of money that wasn't theirs for the manager to buy players. Failed to make anything out of the club due to financial crisis across the globe, they cut off the tap. They then turned around and hire someone they knew would put up a fight with Rafa - enter Purslow. Who was on the owners side all along until he saw them losing their tug of war. He jumped ship. Purslow was shit, he took credit for a lot of deals he didn't cut, he didn't give Ayre the credit he deserved on getting Standard Chartered in for nearly 4 times more than what Carlsberg was willing to pay.
I respected Rafa because he fought for the fans, he unveiled the dirty tricks the owners were trying to do to the club. He opens up that can of worms which made fans realise we needed to do something. By chance or luck, economic downturn, fans unrest and UK banks not happy with what these two fuckers were doing to the club, things started to surface. Broughton was brought in not to run the club but to seek for buyers to clear RBS debt - he is the RBS man. Purslow was the two cowboys' man, but when the cowboys' well dried up, he quickly shifted his seat to join Broughton and Ayre.
The only criticism I have with Rafa is his timing of picking fights, that's his major flaw.
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