The Unreliable Rumours Thread

Discussion in 'Rumour Mill - Transfer Talk' started by Nikola, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. Chewbazza

    Chewbazza True Believer

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    I like it.....

    .....but i'm very aware that at a similar time last year we had a 'target' list that looked like:

    Hector/Chilwell, Pulisic, Dahoud, Zielinski/Gotze

    Most of these were mentioned by Reddy. Now i'm not saying we won't sign anyone in Reddy's list, and perhaps it was based on us winning the Europa league, but at this point for me it's a believe it when i see it.
     
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  2. MarkMcC

    MarkMcC TIA Squad Member

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    Sadly I don't hold out a lot of hope also. This is where our scouting and recruitment network comes into its own. Be inventive and smart...balls on the line where need be to secure first choice but have the nous to have significant back up choices e.g. Klassie etc
     
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  3. jgw_geneseo

    jgw_geneseo optimism in spades

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    Haha, agreed! But I think we were actively trying to sign all of those players listed last year, we just didn't get any of them over the line! Don't think that was an inaccurate list, besides Hector maybe, and we seemed to move off of Gotze fairly quickly.

    Part of the reason I said I'd be surprised if we got them all over the line. Actively trying to compete with Bayern for example is a nice change from trying to unearth hidden gems not yet discovered by big boys or not yet ready for the big teams.
     
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  4. Scorchio

    Scorchio Well-Known Member

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    I've gotta say, that I'd be delighted if we were able to secure Van Dijk, but I just can't see Klopp spending that kind of money on a defender. Never before has he spent big on defenders, and I'm guessing that it kind of goes against his ethos.

    I also find links to Brandt and Oxlade Chamberlain underwhelming. Pulisic too. He's got promise, but I'd much rather we went for someone a little more proven and someone who can genuinely challenge Mane and Coutinho. Gelson Martins, Bernard Silva, or Keita Balde would be the types I'd be after. If we have the money to spend, then let's go for real proven quality in attack.

    In midfield, I'm very happy with the links to Keita. However, for around 25 million, we could also pick up Tielemans. This kid is only 19 but already top drawer. In a couple of years time, he'll be one of the best midfielders in the world, no doubt.

    The quality is out there, and I trust Klopp to find it. I just don't want to see another summer where we spend a fortune on second raters, because we ignored the available and attainable quality.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
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  5. MarkMcC

    MarkMcC TIA Squad Member

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    Another goal for Tierney and by all accounts another good display
     
  6. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    I think the Koulibaly link is bogus. He's African, which for us with Matip surely has to be a strike. I think he's also had a series of niggling injuries in the last 2 years, which again seems to a stroke given the context of our existing first choice CBs
     
  7. Red&War

    Red&War Well-Known Member

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    I find this post a bit puzzling. you seem to be suggesting you don't want us to buy second rate unproven players then state that you think we should buy a bunch of second rate players unproven players like Gelson Martins........ although Bernardo Silva would be worth looking at.
     
  8. NickF

    NickF Well-Known Member

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    Great goal as well
     
  9. NickF

    NickF Well-Known Member

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    What about Brandt do you find underwhelming
     
  10. big noyd

    big noyd Active Member

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    3 goals in 2k bundesliga minutes, perhaps
     
  11. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    Brandt is only 20 years old, and is also more of a playmaker than a goalscorer.

    For comparison he has 3 goals and 8 assists this season, which is similar to De Bruyne who has 4 goals and 11 assists. Sometimes the numbers alone don't tell the whole story.
     
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  12. NickF

    NickF Well-Known Member

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    But his career goals to games aren't massively different to the Keita Balde or Gelson martins, in fact they're better than Baldes despite him being younger
     
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  13. Prolix

    Prolix Well-Known Member

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  14. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    Given that today's result confirmed that Liverpool is guaranteed to play in Europe next season (EL or CL) I had a look at what effect the Uefa squad rules would have on transfer planning...

    Uefa CL squad rules say this:

    "No club may have more than 25 players on List A during the season, two of whom must be goalkeepers. As a minimum, eight places are reserved exclusively for "locally trained players" and no club may have more than four "association trained players" listed on these eight places on List A."

    According to several sources it would seem as if the players we're targeting in the summer are CB, LB, CM, AM, and LW.

    For the sake of this outline lets say that the CB, LB, CM, AM, and LW we sign will be those we keep getting linked to, that is: Van Dijk, Sessegnon, Keita, Ox, and Brandt...

    Signing those would leave the squad as follows (assuming that Sakho, Moreno, Lucas, and Sturridge leave as expected):

    ------------ Mignolet
    ------------- Karius
    Clyne Matip Van Dijk Milner
    Trent Lovren Klavan Sessegnon
    --------- Gomez

    ------------ Henderson
    -------------- Can
    ------ Keita --------- Lallana
    ---- Wijnaldum ------ Grujic

    Mané ------------------ Coutinho
    Ox ----------------------- Brandt
    ---------- Firmino
    ----------- Origi
    ----------- Ings

    In terms of Uefa squad places, that would make the squad list this:

    17 non-homegrown places

    1. Mignolet
    2. Karius
    3. Matip
    4. Van Dijk
    5. Lovren
    6. Klavan
    7. Can
    8. Keita
    9. Wijnaldum
    10. Oxlade-Chamberlain (could also be listed as FA trained)
    11. Mané
    12. Coutinho
    13. Brandt
    14. Firmino
    15. Origi
    16. Ings (could also be listed as FA trained)
    17. Grujic/Gomez*

    (*Gomez will be eligible to be listed as club-trained when he's been at the club 3 years, from 2018 onwards)

    FA trained/homegrown

    18. Milner
    19. Lallana
    20. Henderson
    21. Clyne

    Club-trained

    22.
    23.
    24.
    25.

    ^ no senior players are eligible to be listed as club-trained, but from 2018 onwards Gomez would fill one of these 4 spots.

    List B (unlimited # of youngsters)
    Trent, Woodburn, Wilson, Ojo, Ejaria, etc. Sessegnon would presumably also count as List B as he's still 17.

    Points to note:

    1. If the club wants to sign a CB, LB, CM, AM, and LW, then that means that fringe players like Lucas will have to leave to make room (or take the place of Grujic/Gomez), or simply be left off the Uefa list.

    2. This (hypothetical) list also highlights the value of signing good young British players like Gomez and Sessegnon who can fill Club-trained positions in the Uefa squad after being at the club for 3 years (before they turn 21). It's also very clear here why the club would prioritize signing Sessegnon as backup leftback rather than someone foreign, as he wouldn't need to take a place on List A (as someone like Theo Hernandez would need to).

    3. Signing players like Oxlade-Chamberlain ensures that we'll keep filling the 4 homegrown places going forwards - as well as making it harder for rivals to do so. This also gives the club much more flexibility numbers wise. For example, having Milner, Henderson, Clyne, and Lallana filling the 4 homegrown places means that Ings could be replaced with a foreign player without any Uefa squad list issue.
     
  15. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    All new signings have to be on list A regardless of age (Sessegnon would need to be on List A for example). Gomez can be on list B now. There are at least two senior players who can be listed as club-trained (Wisdom and Flanagan - I thought there were three but I can't remember who the third one is). I take it you're assuming Studge is sold?
     
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  16. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    Ah yes you're right about Sessegnon.

    How come Gomez can be on the B-list? The rules say that players have to be at a club 3 years before they turn 21 to be considered club-trained, and before those 3 years Gomez wouldsurely have to be listed among the first 21 slots - just as would be the case with Sessegnon as you pointed out... or am I missing something?

    And yes I did mention that I assumed that Sakho, Moreno, Lucas, and Sturridge would leave.
     
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  17. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Because being on the B list is not about being club trained and solely about being 21 or under as at 1 January (Gomez is 19). The only other qualifying criterion is that they have been able to play for the club for two years.
     
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  18. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    Ward and Randall both count too. Funny but I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody still. Maybe Dunn?
     
  19. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    @rickardinho1 fantastic start I've just made couple of minor corrections hope you don't mind?

    Uefa CL squad rules say this:

    "No club may have more than 25 players on List A during the season, two of whom must be goalkeepers. As a minimum, eight places are reserved exclusively for "locally trained players" and no club may have more than four "association trained players" listed on these eight places on List A."

    In terms of Uefa squad places, that would make the squad list this:

    Note maximum of 25 players on list A;

    Maximum of 17 non-homegrown places

    1. Mignolet
    2. Karius
    3. Matip
    4. Van Dijk
    5. Lovren
    6. Klavan
    7. Can
    8. Keita
    9. Wijnaldum
    10. Grujic
    11. Mané
    12. Coutinho
    13. Brandt
    14. Firmino
    15. Origi
    16. Sessegnon

    4 + FA trained/homegrown

    17. Oxlaide-Chamberlain
    18. Milner
    19. Lallana
    20. Henderson
    21. Clyne

    (No point listing Ings till at least January's updated list if at all as he's unlikely to be fit enough to play a significant role before then and can be left for domestic games only.)

    Minimum of 4 Club-trained player slots

    22. Ward?
    23. Flanagan?
    24. Wisdom?
    25. Randal?

    (If we don't list these players we can't use these 4 slots and have to register a smaller squad)

    List B (unlimited # of youngsters)
    Trent, Gomez, Woodburn, Wilson, Ojo, Ejaria, etc.
     
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  20. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Randall does, Ward doesn't.
     
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  21. Sweeting

    Sweeting Doesn't think Mignolet is that bad

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    Can we optionally place players from List B into List A?
     
  22. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    Is it really worth keeping the following players (other than Ward?) just for the sake of 4 extra bodies in European competition?

    Minimum of 4 Club-trained player slots

    22. Ward?
    23. Flanagan?
    24. Wisdom?
    25. Randal?
     
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  23. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Yes, but there's greater flexibility with list B in terms of making changes through the season.
     
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  24. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    How many years does one need to be in Britain and at what age will they be then considered FA trained?
     
  25. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    Ward has been with us since January 2012 he definitely counts.
     
  26. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    For the domestic rule it's 3 full seasons before their 21st birthday but they can spend some or all of that time on loan. For European rule it's 2 years but not sure if time spent on loan counts. I think.
     
  27. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Not three full seasons before 21 though - he doesn't count.
     
  28. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    In that case, wouldn't Karius be able to get into the FA trained? He's with City from 2009 till January 2012, that's two and a half years.

    Also what are the criteria, I assume it would be age, to get into list B?
     
  29. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    What is the UEFA definition on club developed then? Was sure he counted. Should definitely count as home grown for domestic rules and association trained for UEFA.
     
  30. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    Does it really matter if the player wont ever get picked by Klopp anyway.

    No point having Flannagan, Wisdom and Randall as part of the squad if they are never going to play.

    I guess they will all be sold with Sturridge and Lucas in the summer
     

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