The Unreliable Rumours Thread

Discussion in 'Rumour Mill - Transfer Talk' started by Nikola, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    Gonna address the 5 parts in bold one by one: :-)

    1. If you want to win things, then you need a strong squad, and obviously there will be "money sitting on the bench" if you want to be able to rotate your squad and not see a drop in quality. We've seen this season (especially in January) how important a strong squad is - or rather, what happens if you don't have one.

    2. Please correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall Teixeira chose to go to China where he could earn silly money. It wasn't a lack of trying, but obviously when a player chooses to go to a crappy league for silly money then it's out of your hands, unless you want to break your entire salary structure.

    3. Taking risks by signing players to big contracts before they've actually done anything isn't a recipe for success, just look at what happened with Depay or DiMaria at United for example. United can get signings wrong and take the hit, whereas this club doesn't have the financial wiggle room to do that too much.

    Thus, I think what FSG are doing in making players earn their higher salaries makes perfect sense, and it's how any business would be run really. There will always be players who choose silly money at PSG/City/Chelsea/United, but the club have done well to target the right sorts of players who buy into the project rather than just coming here for a big paycheck. That isn't to say that signing players to big contracts can't happen - because it does (as exemplified by Milner), but paying young players like Draxler the sort of salary PSG pay him that isn't really reflective of his previous stats or performances is quite risky so I can see why the club wouldn't go through with that.

    4. We signed Matip and Klavan with a view of also keeping Sakho and Lovren, so clearly the club isn't averse to signing another center-back.

    5. Obviously I don't know for sure if we will sign Brandt + Werner, but they do fit the "young and talented" profile FSG typically likes. As for whether they are proven or not, Brandt scored 9 goals last season as a 19 year old, and has 3 goals and 9 assists this season (comparable to De Bruyne 4 goals and 11 assists for example); and Werner has 16 goals - making him the highest scoring u21 player in the top 5 leagues... They might not be *PL proven*, but as far as 20 and 21 year olds are concerned they look like pretty good options to me - not that I'm a professional scout or anything. :J
     
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  2. Scorchio

    Scorchio Well-Known Member

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    Gonna address the 5 parts in bold one by one: :-)

    1. If you want to win things, then you need a strong squad, and obviously there will be "money sitting on the bench" if you want to be able to rotate your squad and not see a drop in quality. We've seen this season (especially in January) how important a strong squad is - or rather, what happens if you don't have one.

    I agree completely. Unfortunately, I think we can both agree that this is a practice that neither of us have seen under FSG.

    2. Please correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall Teixeira chose to go to China where he could earn silly money. It wasn't a lack of trying, but obviously when a player chooses to go to a crappy league for silly money then it's out of your hands, unless you want to break your entire salary structure.

    We pulled out of the deal because his club put the price up by an extra 10 million or so. We wanted the player and the player wanted to come, but we weren't going to play silly buggers over the price.

    3. Taking risks by signing players to big contracts before they've actually done anything isn't a recipe for success, just look at what happened with Depay or DiMaria at United for example. United can get signings wrong and take the hit, whereas this club doesn't have the financial wiggle room to do that too much.

    Thus, I think what FSG are doing in making players earn their higher salaries makes perfect sense, and it's how any business would be run really. There will always be players who choose silly money at PSG/City/Chelsea/United, but the club have done well to target the right sorts of players who buy into the project rather than just coming here for a big paycheck. That isn't to say that signing players to big contracts can't happen - because it does (as exemplified by Milner), but paying young players like Draxler the sort of salary PSG pay him that isn't really reflective of his previous stats or performances is quite risky so I can see why the club wouldn't go through with that.

    Funnily enough, I think Draxler only wanted what PSG were offering, which was about 65k per week. Klopp wouldn't pay it.

    4. We signed Matip and Klavan with a view of also keeping Sakho and Lovren, so clearly the club isn't averse to signing another center-back.

    I believe that the decision to move Sakho on had already been made. Hence the reason why he was out in the cold for no real reason that we know of. It certainly makes sense that Klopp had already chosen Matip and Lovren as his preferred pairing, and saw Sakho as a large weekly wage that we could do without.


    5. Obviously I don't know for sure if we will sign Brandt + Werner, but they do fit the "young and talented" profile FSG typically likes. As for whether they are proven or not, Brandt scored 9 goals last season as a 19 year old, and has 3 goals and 9 assists this season (comparable to De Bruyne 4 goals and 11 assists for example); and Werner has 16 goals - making him the highest scoring u21 player in the top 5 leagues... They might not be *PL proven*, but as far as 20 and 21 year olds are concerned they look like pretty good options to me - not that I'm a professional scout or anything. :J

    When I say proven, I mean premier league proven. It's no coincidence that we pay better wages initially to players we sign domestically than we do to foreign imports.
     
  3. Red&War

    Red&War Well-Known Member

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    No we gave Lovren a fat new contract Because as a business you need to protect your assets. Lovren has a value which diminishes as the length of his contract diminishes. These days the best teams in the world (what we are aiming for) have multiple strong players in each position, Think Real with Pepe, Ramos and Varene or Bayern with Boateng, Hummels and Martínez.



    Absolute rubbish Journo’s like Paul Joyce, Tony Barrett and James Pearce have a proven track record mate. We aren’t talking about ITK’s who heard something about this or that at a BBQ. We are talking about specialist LFC correspondents that have legitimate links to the club and exclusive access to people within the club. Just off the top of my head, I remember Tony Barrett being convinced that Mane was our top target at least a month before we signed him last year. But your right you're smarter than us all, we are stupid and you're smart because you see the “truth”.



    Again Brandt wouldn’t be a direct backup to Mane he will be another string to the bow and a very good string at that, much better than those average Portuguese players you quoted the other day.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
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  4. SBYM

    SBYM I'm just living the dream

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    Bang on. Who the fuck would want to be a sports journo?

    People think you're full of shit as a matter of course, and you spend your working life putting your name on the line (in a notoriously fickle industry, to boot) only to get hacked down by angry keyboard mashers if you're not 100% correct all the time.
     
    Scott Jones likes this.
  5. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    I guess that rules out Suarez or Sanchez on 300k a week then,
     
  6. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    My replies in bold below:

    Gonna address the 5 parts in bold one by one: :-)

    1. If you want to win things, then you need a strong squad, and obviously there will be "money sitting on the bench" if you want to be able to rotate your squad and not see a drop in quality. We've seen this season (especially in January) how important a strong squad is - or rather, what happens if you don't have one.

    I agree completely. Unfortunately, I think we can both agree that this is a practice that neither of us have seen under FSG.

    Agreed. Though for the last couple of years there has at least been a very noticeable and logical progression towards shifting out deadwood and expensive squad players, and I reckon this summer will be the one where this team really becomes a "Klopp team" from back to front.

    2. Please correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall Teixeira chose to go to China where he could earn silly money. It wasn't a lack of trying, but obviously when a player chooses to go to a crappy league for silly money then it's out of your hands, unless you want to break your entire salary structure.

    We pulled out of the deal because his club put the price up by an extra 10 million or so. We wanted the player and the player wanted to come, but we weren't going to play silly buggers over the price.

    Can't really blame the club for pulling out of that then really. Being taken to the cleaners once or twice can set a dangerous precedent that is difficult to shake off. For example, I'm sure clubs love to throw on an extra £10-15m to their asking price as soon as United are involved, simply because they've been so eager to blow money up the wall in recent windows.

    3. Taking risks by signing players to big contracts before they've actually done anything isn't a recipe for success, just look at what happened with Depay or DiMaria at United for example. United can get signings wrong and take the hit, whereas this club doesn't have the financial wiggle room to do that too much.

    Thus, I think what FSG are doing in making players earn their higher salaries makes perfect sense, and it's how any business would be run really. There will always be players who choose silly money at PSG/City/Chelsea/United, but the club have done well to target the right sorts of players who buy into the project rather than just coming here for a big paycheck. That isn't to say that signing players to big contracts can't happen - because it does (as exemplified by Milner), but paying young players like Draxler the sort of salary PSG pay him that isn't really reflective of his previous stats or performances is quite risky so I can see why the club wouldn't go through with that.

    Funnily enough, I think Draxler only wanted what PSG were offering, which was about 65k per week. Klopp wouldn't pay it.

    I don't think it was a matter of Klopp not wanting to pay it for the sake of salary alone. The issue was the fact that Draxler was playing PSG's offer off against Liverpool, which Klopp took as a clear sign that the player wasn't 100% committed to Liverpool and thus pulled the plug. Klopp could have sanctioned the deal but chose not to. I have no problems with that, as this is a long-term project and it's better to be patient and get the right players than signing anyone just because you can.

    4. We signed Matip and Klavan with a view of also keeping Sakho and Lovren, so clearly the club isn't averse to signing another center-back.

    I believe that the decision to move Sakho on had already been made. Hence the reason why he was out in the cold for no real reason that we know of. It certainly makes sense that Klopp had already chosen Matip and Lovren as his preferred pairing, and saw Sakho as a large weekly wage that we could do without.

    I'm not so sure it was that simple. Going into the season with only Matip, Lovren, Klavan, and Lucas would have been quite risky if it was what Klopp intended to do. Seems odd that he would do that.

    5. Obviously I don't know for sure if we will sign Brandt + Werner, but they do fit the "young and talented" profile FSG typically likes. As for whether they are proven or not, Brandt scored 9 goals last season as a 19 year old, and has 3 goals and 9 assists this season (comparable to De Bruyne 4 goals and 11 assists for example); and Werner has 16 goals - making him the highest scoring u21 player in the top 5 leagues... They might not be *PL proven*, but as far as 20 and 21 year olds are concerned they look like pretty good options to me - not that I'm a professional scout or anything. :J

    When I say proven, I mean premier league proven. It's no coincidence that we pay better wages initially to players we sign domestically than we do to foreign imports.

    I agree, PL proven players can often be a safer bet as it minimizes the off-pitch stuff like language, culture shock, etc.

    Looking at the *PL proven* players we signed last year, Mané and Wijnaldum were both in the top 25 in total goals and assists:

    17. Sadio Mané .............. 11 goals + 7 assists
    23. Georginio Wijnaldum 11 goals + 5 assists

    In that vein, below are some attacking players outside the top teams who are in the right age bracket (~19-25) and among the top scorers this season (i.e. "PL proven")

    Josh King (25) ........ 13 goals + 2 assists
    Wilfried Zaha (24) .... 6 goals + 9 assists
    Manuel Lanzini (24)... 7 goals + 2assists

    Needless to say, slim pickings in the "PL proven" batch this year!

    Casting a wider net though, and looking at top young performers across Europe's top 5 leagues offers up some more alternatives in the "proven" pile:

    Andrea Belotti (23) --- 25 goals
    Mauro Icardi (24) --- 21 goals
    Timo Werner (21) --- 16 goals
    Steve Mounie (22) --- 13 goals
    Alvaro Morata (24) --- 12 goals
    See more for yourself here: https://www.whoscored.com/Statistics
    [/QUOTE]
     
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  7. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    I reckon we want Morata, call it a hunch.
     
  8. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    I hope we wont get Morata as he is Morientes in waiting, id much prefer Mbappe.

    First things first lets win 3 more PL games
     
  9. Red&War

    Red&War Well-Known Member

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    As much as it pains me to say we aren't big enough for Mbappe he will be going to one of the giants of European football.

    Morata is much better on the deck than Morientes was and has a little pace about him (not quick though)? How do you come to that conclusion?
     
  10. Zoran

    Zoran Fighting like beavers.

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    Why? Though I'm surprised this comparison hasn't come up earlier... lol

    Mbappe is unrealistic unfortunately. The type of talent we can't attract/pay at the moment.
     
  11. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    It isnt the first time he has made this comparison. He made it at least a day or two ago as well.
     
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  12. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    Morientes was a fucking unbelievable striker.
     
  13. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    He was, unfortunately not in the PL
     
  14. OLDIE

    OLDIE TIA New Signing

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    Which Morientes - The top striker who at his peak, was one of the best in the world or the shadow that arrived at Anfield ?
     
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  15. NickF

    NickF Well-Known Member

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    Morientes was brilliant on the deck, in fact he still is and he's in his 40s. He was very slow though
     
  16. OLDIE

    OLDIE TIA New Signing

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    But he was 5 yards ahead of everyone in his head. He had a great footballing brain.
     
  17. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    I'll go with the guy from Real thanks.
     
  18. OLDIE

    OLDIE TIA New Signing

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    If only !
     
  19. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    The one at Monaco was pretty decent as well
     
  20. NickF

    NickF Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah I agree, brilliant player
     
  21. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Well that's positive, we've already signed 4 of our 5 midfield targets for next season.
     
  22. NJLFCJake

    NJLFCJake Active Member

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    We can use all the money from selling players to buy Mbappe
     
  23. Sweeting

    Sweeting Doesn't think Mignolet is that bad

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    And yet Makati will STILL complain that we aren't having a good window.
     
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  24. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    I've heard that we've also signed Coutinho. Yes, I know he can be inconsistent but I reckon he's now at the stage in his career when he's about to really kick-on.

    Looks set to be a brilliant transfer window.
     
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  25. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    I think this is currently the worst transfer window we've had since 2019.
     
  26. ubermick

    ubermick Willing to drive Moreno to the airport Admin

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    I know, it's even worse than the one we had in 2021 where we STILL hadn't signed anyone by 2020.
     
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  27. ptt

    ptt Mane I'm excited for this season

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    Macrium Reflect, the answer to all your Windows transfer woes.......
     
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  28. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    If we were to land all our primary targets (CB, LB, CM, AM, and RW/ST), and Lucas decides to stay for another season...

    ------------- Mignolet
    -------------- Karius
    Clyne - Matip - Van Dijk - Milner
    Trent - Gomez - Lovren - Sessegnon

    ------------- Henderson
    ---------------- Can
    --------------- Lucas
    ------ Lallana ------- Keita
    ----- Wijnaldum --- Grujic

    Mané ---------------------- Coutinho
    RW/ST ------------------- Brandt
    -------------- Firmino
    -------------- Origi

    With those starters the bench would be very strong:

    Bench: Karius, Lovren, Sessegnon, Can, Wijnaldum, Brandt, RW/ST or Origi
    Reserve: Gomez, Trent, Lucas, Grujic, Woodburn, Wilson
     
  29. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    You do know Keita is a DM?
     
  30. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    In real life positions aren't as defined as they are in Football Manager... ;-)

    Keita can play anywhere in midfield but I think the most accurate description is a box-to-box midfielder, exemplified by his 8 goals and 8 assists. Also keep in mind that he is 1.72m tall, which is the same as Lallana. Do you think we're really going to play someone that short as the No.6? I highly doubt it.

    Lallana is 28 years old, and Keita being 22 would seem like an ideal player to bring in to play that same position in a similar style to have that No.8 position sorted long-term.
     

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