UK General Election 8th June 2017

Discussion in 'Away End - General Chat' started by ptt, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. ptt

    ptt Mane I'm excited for this season

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    NOTE: We have had various political threads here in the past with varying levels of success. The Brexit one had to be closed a few times unfortunately so please play nice in here. None of us want to make more work for the site staff than they already have. If you can't post without following the site rules, please, for the good of the many who want to debate this, don't. I hope this is still open by the time the election finally dawns. With that said...

    BBC:
    A UK general election will be held on 8 June after MPs backed Prime Minister Theresa May's call for a snap poll.

    The House of Commons backed the PM by a margin of 522 votes to 13, above the two-thirds majority needed, as Labour and the Lib Dems supported the move.

    The PM has argued a fresh mandate would strengthen her hand in Brexit talks and provide certainty for the future.

    Jeremy Corbyn welcomed the poll but accused the PM of changing her mind and breaking promises on a range of issues.

    The next general election had been expected in 2020, but the Fixed Term Parliaments Act allows for one to be held earlier if it has the support of two-thirds of MPs.

    Defending the measure, Mrs May told MPs there was a "window of opportunity" to hold a poll before Brexit negotiations began in earnest in June and that the country needed "strong leadership" to make a success of the process.

    The prime minister, who will make her first campaign stop in the north-west of England later, is hoping to significantly boost her current Commons majority of 17 to increase her authority, ahead of 18 months of talks which will determine the manner of the UK's exit from the EU.

    Campaigning begins
    Mrs May, who became PM last July after the EU referendum, told MPs that it would wrong for the UK to find itself reaching the most "difficult and sensitive" phase of Brexit negotiations in late 2018 and early 2019 at a time when a general election was "looming on the horizon".

    During a special debate in the Commons, she said it was the "right and responsible" thing to do hold the election now in order to provide "five years of stability and certainty" and help the UK prepare for life outside the EU.

    Mr Corbyn backed the move but suggested Mrs May's word could no longer be trusted after she reversed her previous position on the issue. The SNP accused Mrs May of political opportunism but abstained in Wednesday's vote.

    Nine Labour MPs opposed the snap election as did three independents and the SDLP's Alasdair McDonnell.

    Although Parliament will not be officially dissolved until early May, campaigning is already under way - with Lib Dem leader Tim Farron addressing a rally of activists in south-west London earlier on Wednesday.

    Mrs May has said she will not take part in any TV leaders' debates, leading to criticism from Mr Corbyn and other party leaders that she is "running scared".

    As the Commons backed the General Election - which will be held just over two years after the Conservatives won a narrow victory in the May 2015 poll - senior politicians from all parties have been clarifying their intentions.

    Former Conservative chancellor George Osborne said he would not be standing again in Tatton in order to concentrate on his job as editor of the Evening Standard, although he hinted at a possible return to frontline politics in the future.

    But former Lib Dem deputy prime minister Nick Clegg has said he will stand in Sheffield Hallam, while it has been reported that Conservative grandee Ken Clarke will again contest Rushcliffe, a seat he has represented since 1970. He had previously said he intended to stand down in 2020.

    Meanwhile, Labour's ruling National Executive Committee has confirmed that existing MPs who wish to stand again will be automatically selected and that any unsuccessful candidates from 2015 will be asked to put themselves forward.

    The NEC will directly fill any vacancies in England triggered by retirements while the parties in Scotland and Wales will handle their own procedures.

    In a statement, it said it regretted that local parties in England would not be able to select candidates as normal but it would be "simply impossible to hold trigger ballots, selection hustings and meetings in the 631 Parliamentary constituencies" before the 11 May deadline for nominations.


    So lots to discuss. Was it a sensible decision? Does it give the Conservatives an opportunity to build a huge majority on the basis that Jeremy Corbyn is not having the best time as leader? Or might JC really come out with a good campaign and start to build a strong opposition? Could the Lib Dems make great strides purely on their opposition to Brexit? Could it be that there's a massive backlash against both red and blue and public opinion is so against Brexit that the Lib Dems get in? How can Labour play this to their advantage? Scotland? Wales? NI? Like all elections, there will be claims, campaigns, counter claims, insults, alternative facts and The Monster Raving Loony Party (only in England). So off we go, 49 days and much to cover.

    Just please be nice.
     
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  2. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see a couple of TV debates as i feel its the only real way to reveal the massive differences in the parties,atm it seems there is little chance of change and a bigger majority for the Tories but this is where TV debates could make it interesting as it gives JC the chance to hold the Tories on their cuts,tax cuts,schools and the NHS,it's far too easy for the Tories to dismiss Labour on leaflets and soundbites but JC comes across much better when debating directly with his opponent than through interviews on his own on the news,the debates need to happen or this will be an annihilation,JC needs to go head to head with May and Lib Dems to see have a chance as he has improved in his attacks on May and her party,who knows what Farron has to offer but seems a bit too whacky for me.
     
  3. ptt

    ptt Mane I'm excited for this season

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    If you can't / won't debate politics live, you're really in the wrong game. Very odd stance from May.
     
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  4. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    Not really. She has points on the board as it were. It's other parties that have to make up the ground, so why give them the chance to embarass her when they can squabble amongst themselves.
     
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  5. ptt

    ptt Mane I'm excited for this season

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    Because that's the fun of politics? Just watch PMQs, they love it.
     
  6. i_still_miss_fowler

    i_still_miss_fowler Well-Known Member Moderator

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    This I think typifies May.

    Last few months she has made disparaging remarks towards Corbyn and Sturgeon. Dismissing the other view as playing political games.

    Yet calling a general election right now is the most striking example of playing politics I have seen in my lifetime.

    Make no mistake, this is nothing to do with Brexit, nothing to do with having a mandate or the will of the people.

    This is opportunistic game of killing off the labour party and to try disrupt the SNP.

    Pretty shameful stuff.
     
  7. ptt

    ptt Mane I'm excited for this season

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    Agreed, but playing devil's advocate, any sendible party would do the same, surely?
     
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  8. Jimmyscase

    Jimmyscase DoctorJimmy's casebook. Aerial knee-job merchant

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    redfanman, you've made it a whole lot easier for me to get something out of this thread. If May = ManU with a five point lead having played all their games against the top teams going into the last month of the 'campaign'. The only way to block their path to the treble next season is to get 'fixing matches' so that the three strongest teams join them in Europe this season, and beat them there next.
    In other words join in with Gina Miller's tactical voting alliance in June to reduce the number of hard Brexit MPs in Westminster come 2019
     
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  9. inaiq

    inaiq "Some people feel the rain others just get wet"

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    IMO... She is playing the game.. I think she will debate live, but only on her terms. I.e. Questions/topics framed to avoid her record or frame her positive record only.
     
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  10. liveforthereds

    liveforthereds asp67 twitter

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    Totally agree, Labour in full revolt a Leader that only appeals to a small amount of the voters no better time to try and get a big majority
    if at the same time she picks at the scab of little wee jimmy and pushes her back then she is doing well, I said at the time of the triggering of A50 that it would only be a matter of time before she would turn to the ballot box, what I doubt is one she will get the easy ride she is expecting and two it would give her a stronger hand when dealing with the EU, if anything it could become more divisive as it will only be about Brexit and Scotland.

    The first salvo from Mrs May is to pickup from Dave and George in stating the scare tactic of a vote for anyone else will see a hung parliament and we all know how well the scare tactic went down over the EU.
     
  11. Arminius

    Arminius FSG PR plant Moderator

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    You know it is going to get ugly when the writ has just dropped, and there are already stories that Corbyn will refuse to step down in the face of a defeat.
     
  12. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    I really don't see the need for the PM (whoever that is) to engage in TV debates. She already engages in a TV debate every Wednesday that the public are able to watch, should they so wish. She has, after all, got a country to run and constituents to represent. She's going to be busy enough on the campaign trail.

    Let the leaders of the other parties engage in TV debates; they've got nothing else (outside of their constituencies and party members) to concern themselves with.
     
  13. ptt

    ptt Mane I'm excited for this season

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    Do we not want that ruthless streak in our players? Stand on the throat when we're ahead? Make the absolute most of every opportunity? Basic fun?
     
  14. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

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    Calling for a general election in the first place achieves that. She's got the most to lose and little to gain by participating in TV debates. That's the opposite for all the other candidates which is why they're so keen. For her they would be a pointless distraction with no obvious upside.
     
  15. Arminius

    Arminius FSG PR plant Moderator

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    Cutting off your opponent's oxygen is fairly ruthless. For about the last 20 years, conservative parties everywhere have been working with the idea that the media is not neutral, and is usually not friendly. Debates defined and moderated by media entities are not seen as opportunities to win votes. The strategists now always assess engagements with a simple rubric - is it a good opportunity to win votes, or improve the mobilization of your base? If it is neither of those, it is a waste of scarce resources at best, and at worst a pointless risk.

    In this case, Corbyn desperately needs to be seen as a potential prime minister, and he would not get a better chance than going 1v1 versus the current incumbent. It may be cynical, but it is ruthlessly logical.
     
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  16. Rambler

    Rambler Bootle Boy

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    Seriously..Was Dawn Butler the best person they could put up for interview today to get the Labour campaign up and running. This could be carnage.

    Dawn Butler MP interviewed on Radio 4's PM - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39659304
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  17. Arminius

    Arminius FSG PR plant Moderator

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    Nice. Calling an election is 'rigging democracy', and a bonus drive-by slur without factual basis toward a British employer. Seems ready for Cabinet...
     
  18. Rambler

    Rambler Bootle Boy

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    As it happens Costa is one company that is squeaky clean. I hope they take her to the cleaners.... Lets hope that after this election we actually get a credible opposition and that Corbyn and his crew warp back to 1978 where they really belong..
     
  19. i_still_miss_fowler

    i_still_miss_fowler Well-Known Member Moderator

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    I am not sure, barley read anything (seen nothing on tv) as abroad, but my take is that there are dangers.

    It starts to transition her image that she wanted to convey as the straight forward/straight talking politician to one who is ruthless and will hold an election with main purpose to kill the opposition. Thats more akin to Frank Underwood or potentially more damaging north of the boarder being the second comming of Thatcher.

    Remember her first speech about representing all of Britian in Brexit, killing off the weak opposition and dismissive tone towards house of lords is the exact opposite. She starts to shift from the illusion of PM for all, to her true colours of Conservative hard brexit at any cost.That's even before considering her national policies.

    How she justify that a second Scottish referendum is too disruptive and then decide General election isn't. One is about independence political games...and one isn't??

    She may not care. But this move for me increases the chance of losing Scotland. It was the labour MPs who fought the remain battle... Wipe them out as a party, create an almost entirely blue England....the division between the two countries will be even more apparent.
     
  20. redfanman

    redfanman TIA Regular Valued Member

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    This is why i find it odd that as soon as she announced plans to hold an election there were people jumping to defend the decision on the basis that it would allow her to go for a softer brexit against those in her party pushing for a hard brexit....there is simply no evidence that she is in favour of a soft brexit.
     
  21. Arminius

    Arminius FSG PR plant Moderator

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    I have to wonder if it will make much difference at all. The Brexit vote itself did that I suspect. I recall quite the laundry list of promised changes from Cameron in the Scottish referendum, and very few ever seem to have been followed up on. That is the kind of thing that stokes the fires of separatist resentment, even if it takes a decade to come to fruition.
     
  22. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    Britain is fucked.
     
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  23. Jimmyscase

    Jimmyscase DoctorJimmy's casebook. Aerial knee-job merchant

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    But with rape counseling Scotland has a chance to love again
     
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  24. i_still_miss_fowler

    i_still_miss_fowler Well-Known Member Moderator

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    The broken promises is a very true statement, and I agree with the sentiment. But what I would say is the majority of those promises came from Labour MPs. Conservatives generally kept their distance or used scare tactics until last few days.My perception was the conservatives generally played the bad cop (Scotland will lose pound/ EU membership/ pensions) while the Labour MPs (Gordon Brown and Jack Straw) played the good cop. Stay with us and things will get much better (various devolved powers, need a Scotland to stop Tory governments, maintence of Barnet formula etc).

    Tories now talking about ending Barnet formula post Brexit is a big one. Labour not able to provide representative Westminster government for a minimum of another 5 years, probably at least 10 years is a scary thought. Add to that the growing signs of Tories wanting to use Brexit as a power grab from Scotland (eg Fisheries and Agriculture) are the types of things that will all influence voters.

    So while I agree exiting Europe is the main spark, a totally dominant Conservative government fans the flames.
     
  25. Joe Ware

    Joe Ware Well-Known Member

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    I fear that this thread will not have a happy ending...
     
  26. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    With Mrs May winning at the end then no it won't end well,:-)
     
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  27. Hope in your heart

    Hope in your heart Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts... Admin

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    I'd again ask everyone to stay on the ground of rational arguing. Petty point-scoring and getting personal won't help. If this re-occurs, the thread will be closed shortly aftwerwards.
     
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  28. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    At the end of the day, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place..

    Labour and Corbyn who is a fucking idiot and puts his own personal bullshit ahead of his party and the people it represents.
    May and the Tories, who will systematically destroy NHS and continue with their crusade to help the rich whilst ignoring the poor. The Anti-Robin Hood.

    I'll be voting Labour, simply because the Tories will be another Thatcher like era.
     
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  29. Joe Ware

    Joe Ware Well-Known Member

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    Oh well - we'll have to agree to disagree but hey, that's not a problem to me.
    I'm probably a pretty rare species on TIA - a Conservative supporter!!
     
  30. cynicaloldgit

    cynicaloldgit Well-Known Member

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    At least you're honest about it. There's not much worse than pretend progressives.
     
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