Virgil van Dijk (CB) Southampton

Discussion in 'Rumour Mill - Transfer Talk' started by Nikola, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. JustHitMyHead

    JustHitMyHead TIA Reserve Team

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    I'm not saying by any means that Van Dijk is bad. Not at all... he is a very good defender. But take him out of Southampton's system and I'm not sure how obvious a choice he would be over Jonathan Tah or Kalidou Koulibaly who would likely be cheaper.
     
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  2. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    He was amazing at Celtic. Clearly the best player by some distance in Scotland at the time and played exactly the same up there as he does at Southampton. There was just always the "well it's only Scottish football" worry. Southampton took the gamble and he took the step up. But he was playing the same way. He hasn't just become good at Southampton.
     
  3. JustHitMyHead

    JustHitMyHead TIA Reserve Team

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    Ummm... no. That's a tad bit of an exaggeration. I think most people would agree that his performances for Southampton represent a big step up. He himself has admitted in numerous interviews that he has improved enormously since his move.

    And for the national team he was stuck at that time behind Martins Indi (until he got suspended?).

    Anyhow... the debate isn't about whether Van Dijk is a good defender. I think most of us agree he is... it's about whether we should be paying 50m for him (or for that matter any defender).
     
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  4. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    The step up wasn't how he plays, saw him play live in Scotland he was a dominant defensive wall whilst also playing like a box to box playmaker who was absolutely lethal at attacking corners. He made a massive step up in quality of league and opposition. It could have just been him looking good because he was playing in Scotland and it being so rubbish there but he proved it wasn't when he was able to step up to meet the quality here. It definitely wasn't a case that he plays better here than there. If anything he still isn't as impressive in England as he was in Scotland because of the quality he is up against now.
     
  5. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    Please do tell...
     
  6. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    What is it about Southampton's system that you think he would somehow be a worse defender elsewhere?
     
  7. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    If you want a player who can improve you a lot, to the extent that you can start to compete for the top trophies, and you have the money, then it's silly not to do it.

    If there are legitimate alternatives who are about as good as him but significantly cheaper then that's one thing, but as far as I can tell there aren't any better CB's in the PL than him, so it makes sense to get him.

    Bottom line is, there's huge amounts of money in the PL these days, with TV revenues, CL money, and whatever the club could earn in sales (from Sakho for example). As you can only put 11 players on the pitch at a time it makes sense to buy the best that you can with the money that you have, especially when you're in a position where you're not overhauling the squad but adding only 4-5 key players. Sometimes you can get deals like Matip, other times you have to pay up. And the club really should have quite a lot of money to spend to become seriously competitive next season.

    I don't think anyone was complaining in hindsight 8 years after United dropped £30m on Ferdinand by the way, as they got some PL and CL trophies out of him. Signing Van Dijk is the sort of signing that can take Liverpool from scrapping it for 4th, to being a team that can really dominate teams - including being a tough team to beat in the CL, so it's a no-brainer if the player is happy to join.
     
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  8. SirBillShankly

    SirBillShankly Joe and Holly's dad

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    £50m on a CB is insane.

    Trouble is, if we are not prepared to pay then he will end up at Man City or Chelsea.

    However, you would think Kloppo would be able to unearth a similar CB for a fraction of the price wouldn't you?
     
  9. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    Only if one actually exists.
     
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  10. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    I do remember us going all insane about that Hector fella, then that Gotze boy from Bayern right about this time last summer. Out of the blue in January last year we got hooked up with Matip without any big news being broken. Then out of nowhere as soon as the window opens, Mane was mentioned and we sort that deal out in matter of couple of weeks. So you can never know if one exists or not. Just because the media not reporting it, does not mean there isn't one.
     
  11. Speckydodge

    Speckydodge TIA Squad Member

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    Koulibaly will go for a similar fee imo
     
  12. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    I meant "similar CB for fraction of the price" can only be unearthed if one actually exists. Matip was a fantastic find but Van Dijk is a player that could potentially play for any club on the planet. Will have to see if he can make the next step up in his career. The rest definitely agree with. We finally seem to have a cohesive plan for our targets and roles. No more ending up with Moses when fail to get Mikhitaryan or worse, Balotelli when fail to get Sanchez. Players who were nothing like the original target in style or ability.
     
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  13. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    If you want a top *PL-proven* CB who can solve a big issue and make you competitive immediately, and you have money to burn, then you go out and get them.

    We've conceded over 40 goals per season every year since Rafa left, including ~50 each of the last 4 seasons... It's about time that changed, and signing a Top CB who isn't injured half the time would go a long way to fixing that.

    2016/17: 40 in 33 (projected 46 in 38)
    2015/16: 50 in 38
    2014/15: 48 in 38
    2013/14: 50 in 38
    2012/13: 43 in 38
    2011/12: 40 in 38
    2010/11: 44 in 38
    2009/10: 35 in 38
    2008/09: 27 in 38
    2007/08: 28 in 38
     
  14. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    Koulibaly is a fantastic defender, but he plays in the ACON so for that reason I'd swerve him.

    VVD is in the top 5 defenders we could get that would be attainable (fee not relevant) Probably in the top 3.

    Lovren would make a great 3rd choice behind 2 defenders who are leaders, so if VVD or Matip was out then you'd still have the "hand holder" for him.

    If you were buying Matip you'd be looking at 30mil plus for him easily. He was a steal.
     
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  15. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    Yes you'd imagine so judging by the transfer fees for Mangala, Stones, Otamendi, Bailly, David Luiz, etc.

    That said, it'll be interesting to see how much gets paid for Sakho, given that he plays at a similar level as Koulibaly when he's on his game.
     
  16. SirBillShankly

    SirBillShankly Joe and Holly's dad

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    No need for PL Proven is there? Another Matip level CB will do.
     
  17. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    The next ACON is in January 2019, at which stage Gomez will hopefully have developed into a solid first team CB. Furthermore, Matip won't play for Cameroon again, so it wouldn't be that big an issue to sign Koulibaly if we had Matip, Lovren, and Gomez, plus presumably another option like Klavan. Ideally we'd sign Van Dijk though and avoid that issue altogether though.

    Spending £50m on Van Dijk would mean we'd have gotten Matip and Van Dijk for an average of £25m each. Pretty good business there when you look at it like that.

    Btw, just out of curiosity, who else is in your Top 5 of attainable CB's?
     
  18. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Eru

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    Gimenez, VVD, Koulibaly, Bonucci, Manolas.
     
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  19. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    Which CB's are you talking about here? "Matip level CB's" don't exactly grow on trees...
     
  20. SirBillShankly

    SirBillShankly Joe and Holly's dad

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    There must be a decent CB in the Bundesliga, Serie A or La Liga who is available for a fraction of the price.Surely?
     
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  21. eng.amohd

    eng.amohd The false nine

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    de Vrij, Tah, Sule, Gimenez, Manolas, Rudiger are all good options that could be cheaper than VVD. VVD for Sakho + 10-15M is a good deal imo.
     
  22. lfc.8

    lfc.8 Well-Known Member

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    Benatia might be a player to look at.
     
  23. SirBillShankly

    SirBillShankly Joe and Holly's dad

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    Good shout.Bayern already have Hummels and Boateng, are bringing in Sule so he won't be getting much game time there.

    Do Juventus have first refusal though? I reckon this is the type of signing we should be looking at, experienced and tall, not sure how much he would cost but at 29 yrs old you would think he would cost considerably less than £50m wouldn't you?
     
  24. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    - De Vrij has massive injury issues.
    - Sule has already signed for Bayern.

    Agree with the rest. Gimenez also has just 12 months on his contract too so looks like the sort FSG would go after.

    Bayern are hoarding quite a few CB's too (i.e. Hummels 28, Boateng 28, Martinez 28, Benatia 30, Badstuber 28, Sule 21) so perhaps it might be worth trying to sign one of them (though Hummels and Sule won't be possible).
     
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  25. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    Benatia is 30 years old, so it would be very surprising to see FSG pay a significant sum for him.
     
  26. eng.amohd

    eng.amohd The false nine

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    Thought Sule to Bayern was still a rumour, not a done deal. My bad.

    I think it is hard to lure Germans away from Bayern, but Benatia maybe within reach. Worst part is that he is Moroccan so we would have to deal with the additional January games without him.
     
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  27. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    I don't think Southampton would want to spend £30m on Sakho.

    They're far more likely to take the Van Dijk money and go after someone cheaper like Michael Keane (12 months on contract) or perhaps even Ben Gibson (getting relegated) instead... Alternatively they'll dig up some other CB from an obscure league who we can sign for 5 times the price in 2 years time :D
     
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  28. legalalien

    legalalien The Tweetherder

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    If 'intimidation factor' is the main prerequisite then either Ryan Shawcross or Scott Dann would fit the bill, and would certainly give us the steel we need in defence, but probably wouldn't be popular choices. Could certainly get either of them for less than we'll get for Sakho. And as we all know, Scott Dann is a Red. I'm sure we will go for someone younger and more of a footballer. Personally I would like to see us go for someone British, or who is currently playing for a Prem club but costs less than 50 million. Of course the two names most touted are Keane and Gibson. Wouldn't mind either of them.
     
  29. Makati Red

    Makati Red Well-Known Member

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    Well Roma want Sakho so give us Manolas, Job done
     
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  30. rickardinho1

    rickardinho1 Active Member

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    Was re-watching some YT clips of Koulibaly earlier. What an absolute titan he is, and very aggressive in the tackle.

    Tough to choose between him and Van Dijk really, as they're both top quality but somewhat different styles.

    Van Dijk is more of an elegant organizer, playing a very simple and refined game (at an extremely high level); whereas Koulibaly is more "thunder and lightning" and aggressively tries to win the ball.

    Normally I don't like seeing defenders go to ground as its usually a last resort and means that he's done something wrong positionally beforehand, but Koulibaly has an extraordinary way of making slide tackles which is very entertaining considering that he's such a huge guy and that he so often times them to perfection. Koulibaly next to Matip would be a very enticing prospect, and I could certainly see the two of them dominating many teams at the halfway line to keep opponents penned in their own half.

    That said, I think Van Dijk probably just edges it as he seems to be a little bit better with headers and organizing others which is very important in the PL, along with that fact that he's also *PL proven* which I guess counts for something. Nonetheless, either of them two would be an excellent signing.
     

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