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A busted flush.....

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
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Not going to start with a 3000 word essay.

I personally hope Juergen klopp is the man we all want him to be, and in 2 years time we can laugh at this thread and wonder why we even bothered discussing it....

But...

After the last 25 years, after promising renaissance under hollies, Rafa, dalglish and even Rodgers.... If this goes pear shaped....

I reckon we'll be a busted flush.....

Last throw of the proverbial dice.....

Good luck herr klopp, we're all in this together.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
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Hence why I have been taking a more cautious approach to any new manager we appointed. One might think I am not glad we have Klopp, very wrong. I wasn't keen on Rodgers, and to say I am not keen on Hodgson is an understatement. But both those managers doesn't lift my spirit up one bit. Dalglish gave me that nostalgic feel to it and also he is the only Legend whom I have lots and lots of time for, and Rafa, I wasn't so crazy but acceptable after seeing how his Valencia team dismantled us in Europe. After Houllier and his 5 years promise, I have given up on being giddy every time we find ourselves a new manager. We have the knack of shooting ourselves in the foot.

So for this appointment, I am glad we went for someone this good, someone proven to be a winner and has won titles. I am glad we realise that we need a high calibre manager to be seen as a big club. That is a good sign. But I am not going to expect titles in the next 3 years, or 4. The great Shankly took 3 years to get us promoted back to top flight and 2 more to win our first top flight league title. There are certainly progression under that great man, and if this fella can follow that footsteps, I'd be very happy as he will one day leave the club with a group of extremely capable players to continue a very successful journey, so long as no external parties start to dismantle a great side like how it was done under Rafa.

I am optimistic about this fella, but I am never going to be overly nuts over him... not until I see progress, a progress that does not require one player shouldering all the burden.
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.
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The good thing is that Klopp has both the charisma and tracking record which will allow him to get the necessary time when things go a bit pear-shaped. That's what was never a given since Rafa left. In my book, Kenny had all the pre-requisites for this as well, but many people would questioning his ability because of his age, not being in the game for so long etc. Hodgson everyone was fed up with him in a short time, and Rodgers was shown up for what he was since the off: too leight-weight for such a job.

With Klopp in charge, bar the usual idiots who lose faith in the gaffer after a few lost games, the big bulk of LFC supporters will stay on board with him. And more importantly, the players will too. That in turn will allow the owners to remain much more patient, and wait for the man in charge to address the ongoing problems.

I'm quite optimistic that Klopp will be given all the time and support he needs to be a success at this club. Actually, since Rafa came in, I haven't been more optimistic about this. :) There is a big odd that we'll enjoy some stability over a period of time from now on, at good last. God knows that this club needs it after all the self-inflicted upheavals...
 

geebo

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I really like Klopp. And I think we have the danger of becoming liek spurs - a managerial merry-go-.round, where no manager has long enough to reach targets that re too high.
I hope we can reset after Rodgers. Give this guy lots of time, and not expect too much too soon. Im trying not to get too excited not, however, I wont be too worried if it doesnt happen over night.... Because, if Klopp cant, who can? If Klopp fails, then its the club and the fans who have to look at themselves and say what are WE doing wrong as fans and as a club!
I can guess what that discussion will be now (the busted flush) But thats for another time. Now we have to watch out for knee jerks, and fact-less conjecture. Give the manager time space and credit. Because in the end, we are fans are on trial here.
 

Zinedine Biscan

Spreading the word of St Igor
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Klopp is the most successful (pre-arrival at LFC) manager we've appointed since Rafa, who took us to a 5th European Cup and a whisker away from the league title. And that was at a time when the club was being financially run into the ground and he was forced to make a profit in his last couple of transfer windows. It wasn't a case of him not being up to the job, or being found out (and I realise I'm preaching to the converted based on your stated opinion of Rafa mate!), but I do sometimes daydream about what he might have achieved with the same type of backing FSG has given its managers thus far.

Klopp is a winner, make no mistake. Hopefully we're about to go on the same kind of journey we did under Rafa, only are now able to take that further step we couldn't then because of G&H.
 

ptt

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Given the time since we last won the league, our achievements of late and our recent transfers and managers, I think that this is the last time we can throw the dice from the stance of Liverpool the huge club. Klopp wins for us or we will be permanently thrown into the backwaters of faded glory.

But then he's going to win. Everything :)
 

legalalien

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I suppose it's possible that he might win everything with us, however it's more likely that he / we won't. But all he has to do to make everybody's dreams come true, is win the Premier League just once. Of course, it's quite possible that come the end of his three year contract we might not have won the league. So what happens then? Of course, he has to be given time, but there has to be progress, we have to be seen to be demonstrably better than we were under BR. But I wonder how much time he will be given before the verdict is reached that we are busted long-term?

There's a lot of expectation out there, especially after his "title in four years" remark. By the way, I do take what he said to mean the Premier League title. I'm sure he knows that picking up a domestic cup just won't cut it. There is only one thing that will.

If we fail with Klopp in charge then it really will take a miracle to get us back to the top table. We would then become Tottenham; a biggish club without a hope in hell of ever becoming champions again.
 

T.C.B

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Depends on how you define progress I suppose. I'm not that bothered about match results in the short term because we will loose games under his charge.
He needs 3 years to get the ship on the right path in my opinion. For starters we need a defined, recognisable style which is visible on the pitch in terms of set up and play. 100% commitment from Players to the Manager and the changes he will bring......adapt or die. Somebody with the clout and nous to stand up to and get the better of assholes like Jose in turn making Liverpool a name to be feared rather than a fragile flower that will wilt under the heat of battle. Somebody who will fight like a Lion for this club and its name. Talk is cheap. We need a warrior on the touchline, not a waffler. Somebody to stand up and have the courage of his convictions in the transfer market and not hide behind the big bad transfer committee when it turns to shit. The reality of it is that it's not that fucking difficult either if you have a proper man in charge. Rafa was and is a Man, Kenny too (especially in his first stint), Ged H did wonders for this club before it got the better of him. Hodge and Rodgers were wafflers and spoofers. We had two Warriors in Rodgers best year, one now plays for Barca and the other has retired in America. Klopp will know what he wants and what's needed in the short and long term. What we have to do is get behind him and support him and believe in him.
 

lfc.eddie

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There's a lot of expectation out there, especially after his "title in four years" remark. By the way, I do take what he said to mean the Premier League title. I'm sure he knows that picking up a domestic cup just won't cut it. There is only one thing that will.
English is not his first language. What he meant was, his is contracted to the club for 3 years. Within that time frame, the owners would expect him or rather he would put winning the title as a benchmark for him to get his contract extended. If he is still sitting in the club as the manager and doing press conference in 4 years, it means he would have won the league once, hence why he is still there. That is what he meant, he is not promising a title, rather he believes the fans, the owners and himself expects title by then, if not he does not deserve the job.

I don't expect him to win the league in 3 or 4 years, I do expect him to come close and build the team up proper. Have a way of playing which is the envy of the league and make us hard to beat. Fortress Anfield and then see where we go from there. I am more than willing to take a couple of FA Cups, Europa League and if he gets us another Champs League, I will be super stoke and may even paint his picture on my muriel wall in my man cave(I have Shankly, Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish and Rafa black and white sketch).
 

cardiffpete

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he meant winning "a title" not "the title " !!!
I think that he meant that if he was still here in 4 years time, we'd have a title (an EPL one, and at least one) by then. Why not? EPL is very volatile now and not at all good in Europe either. There are many opportunities to get it right.

If you watched Ferguson last night on BBC and his (cough, cough) master-class on leadership, then SAF was trying everything to justify his own appointing of Moyes. He said that the 4 quality coaches out there (aka Mou, Ancellotti, Klopp and van Gaal) were already committed elsewhere and Pep didn't come back to him. Bit of a soft excuse there and maybe covering his own back.
 

Billy Biskix

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We won't be a busted flush even if Klopp fails. It had got to the stage where you were practically laughed at if you dared suggest we were a big club. Klopp's appointment proves that we are and we still will be if it doesn't work out. We will still be rich, we will still have a squad full of internationals and a huge global fanbase. Klopp's appointment gives us our best chance of making it big again since Rafa but it won't be our last chance.

Klopp may not work out. I don't think he's guaranteed to be successful in the same way that I thought Ancelotti might be, for example. I thought Ancelotti could very quickly get us to a basic level of competence i.e. be able to defend and that might be all we need to become serious contenders again in a poor league. With Klopp it's more of an emotional thing and it's either going to be monstrously successful or completely disastrous. I'm ready for either outcome but I am prepared to give Klopp plenty of time. I don't think it'll be a quick fix so I have no great expectations for the remainder of this season. I just want him to get his methods in place and players who can implement them. Where he has a head start over BR is that he has lots of cups and medals to point to so we know he can do it. I won't be panicking if there is no instant improvement.
 

Walter Sobchak

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I'm pretty confident we're not going to be disappointed with Klopp. Yes, the EPL is competitive as hell, but none of the teams belong among the very best in Europe. Klopp has a very good track record against the super powers in European footie, and that on a very limited budget compared to the big guns. If anything, he has shown that football is indeed a team sport, where the sum of a well drilled team can be greater than the sum of the parts of the Bayerns and the Reals. Ask Jose and LVG. Yes, EPL might be overall more competitive than the Bundesliga, but the top teams in England are not better than BvB, Bayern and periodically Wolfsburg.

There's really no way he'll not be able to improve LFC. It's just a matter of how much, and if that'll land us a title or two. Sidenote: I think Cardiffpete got it right, Klopp was talking about the league, not just any title. Pretty sure of that. I'm also pretty sure we'll make it. This appointment is monumental in so many ways. I expect we'll see an overall improvement in all departments of the club, and all of it will have a positive effect on the field.

Fantastic times ahead! Getting Klopp hasn't really dawned on me yet. It's like I'm affraif to wake up and find out it was just a dream. Probably lost a truckload of income this week, as I've spent far too much time keeping abreast of things instead of doing biz :) Well worth it though!
 

legalalien

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English is not his first language. What he meant was, his is contracted to the club for 3 years. Within that time frame, the owners would expect him or rather he would put winning the title as a benchmark for him to get his contract extended. If he is still sitting in the club as the manager and doing press conference in 4 years, it means he would have won the league once, hence why he is still there. That is what he meant, he is not promising a title, rather he believes the fans, the owners and himself expects title by then, if not he does not deserve the job.

I don't expect him to win the league in 3 or 4 years, I do expect him to come close and build the team up proper. Have a way of playing which is the envy of the league and make us hard to beat. Fortress Anfield and then see where we go from there. I am more than willing to take a couple of FA Cups, Europa League and if he gets us another Champs League, I will be super stoke and may even paint his picture on my muriel wall in my man cave(I have Shankly, Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish and Rafa black and white sketch).
As you say, the fans, the owners and himself expect to win the title, and even by referring to it, which is unavoidable, he heightens that expectation. To be honest, if we are playing in a way you describe; envy of the league, hard to beat, Fortress Anfield; I would have to wonder why we hadn't won it. As for being given time, if after three years we aren't qualifying for the CL, aren't challenging for the title or haven't won at least one cup competition, then I think he might see that as a failure and might walk. In that scenario I doubt if he would wait for the axe to fall. Three years should be more than enough time for him to impose his philosophy and bring in the players to implement it. I'm sure he won't want to join Rodgers and Hodgson in the "3 years and no trophy" club.

Yes, I'm impatient. But if Klopp is as good as his reputation makes him out to be, then with the money he will have available three years should be enough time to see a huge improvement over where we are now. And that does not mean we will be champions in that time, but we should be close.
 

hugo the horrible

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I am more upbeat about Klopp's appointment than what I have been for long time,and a number of managers,probably since Kenny left first time round.
However it has really only been since Rafa was sacked I've been really toey.
Woy was a disaster and most of us expected no more,Kenny's return taught us to believe again and while he had been out of managing for a time,I hoped he would sort us out,but I believe he was hamstrung by Comolli and likely the owners.Rodgers was out of his depth from day one,unfortunately.
Was prepared to give him a go but it was not to be.
Klopp to me,and he hasn't had a game with us yet,looks a very likely prospect,if he fails I don't know where we are!
I'm pretty certain he won't,he seems to have everyone on side,no mean feat!Most will give this guy a lot of leeway which will be a plus after the last few managers.
I'm hoping the owners have learnt a lot about us by now,and the appointment of a top class manager like Klopp,hopefully indicates they have.
Klopp has made it abundantly clear where he stands on transfers and one assumes the owners took that on board before appointing him.
His presser was a triumph I feel,he had a lot eating out of his hand!
We will see soon enough his effect on the players and by the time the Jan.window closes,we will have an idea of where he, and us are heading.
Personally I feel it is a great time to be a Liverpool supporter,I too am impatient, but very confident for the future.
 

spizfromoz

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I think Rodgers was the busted flush.

Klopp may well be a flush.

I'll come back to this thread in 2021.
 

RichLFC

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Just wish we had done this earlier. Like 5 years ago, then maybe we wouldn't need to be having this discussion

Better late than never, and of course it's something FSG had to try

It may not work out, and if not there will be scrutiny on how the club is run (one Ian Ayre would be a good place to start, but it wouldn't be restricted to FSG's button men solely). But this is maybe as good a chance as any and he will be given a good chunk of time, probably longer than Brendan barring disaster. Like to think he would perhaps be able to do more tangible things in that time

In which case I hope the focus moves away a bit from 4th place to actual silverware. Get players used to winning trophies and it has a knock on effect in the league in the end, and the problem starts to take care of itself
 

NZred

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More so than any manager since Kenny in the 80s, this for me feels like an absolutely perfect match up of club and manager. Liverpool fans are football romantics. We long for those European nights on the Kop. We yearn for pass move of the 80s. We love a manager that's quick whited with the media and has no problem putting them in their place when they ask questions they have no right to ask. Klopp seems every bit that manager we've been trying to replace since 1991. Under Rafa I was stoked to be getting a manager that footed it in La Liga and made us look like donkeys in Europe, but he was forever fighting an uphill battle with owners that wanted nothing more than to run us into the ground.

We finally have owners that aren't afraid to splash the case and a manager that has an eye for talent.
 

WrinkledMind

Living A Life Consumed By Slow Decay.
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I think it depends on your expectations.

Do you expect to win the title?
Then yes, you will most probably be disappointed in the coming 5 years.

Do you expect us to sneak into the top 4 this season, and make ourselves a regular top four contender in the coming years, with a one off title challenge season and maybe a cup win (FA or Carling Cup or even a UCL)?
Then you will be most probably get few of those in the coming 5 years.


Klopp will build a side with a strong spine and a distinct style, just like Rafa and GH. And more often than not, with a manager who builds a strong spine and develops a distinct style, there is a chance of success. However, you just cannot disregard the sheer spending power of City, Chelsea and United. And God forbid, if the scum end up with Carlo or Pep, then they might go on a run of their own. I had hope with FFP, to provide a balance, but since that is binned, the oil-rich clubs will splash cash for fun.
Klopp should (and can) hold his own against those mangers. But I don't expect him to win the league in the coming years. He will make us strong and a side that will be a force, just like Rafa's. We might have an odd year, where things will go in favour (other sides struggling and most of players in top form), and we might (just might) win the league.

Personally I am more than happy with the second choice.
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.
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Looking at the injuries mounting up, it would be idiotic to put any expectation on this squad now, at least until January. We've just lost two in-form players who were among the few bright sparks of that dismal early season, Gomez and Ings. Others are still missing, we have no back-up options for full-back at all anymore, and have to rely on a notorious fragile player in order to score goals. And we'll play every three days until Christmas and beyond...

This is very much a bedding-in time. I for one don't expect anything and will just be happy to see the project develop in the longer term, and see where it takes us.
 

lfc.eddie

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@WrinkledMind i don't think it is too much to ask to be a regular champs league team, not like we don't have the tools. It is also not too far fetch to be expecting for title and trophies, after all that is why we pay £7m to Klopp instead of £500K a year to no name manager. If he doesn't deliver the league title in 5 years then we are definitely overpaying him as our manager.
 

WrinkledMind

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@lfc.eddie
Depends on the transfer strategy. I know Klopp has said that he gets full control, but if we continue selling our assets to keep our wage bill in control, then title will be a tough thing. However, if Klopp stays for more than 5 years, and more importantly manages to build and retain his spine/core players then yeah, title could be a reality.
However, I still doubt if we can compete against City and Chelsea's spending power. We need someone from Chelsea and City to have a poor season, and 3-4 of our own players to have brilliant seasons. Till then top 4 and Cup wins.
 

Chewbazza

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Wait wait wait.

Haven't we been told repeatedly over the last two seasons that FSG are merely setting up the club for a sale as soon as a decent bid comes in?

If that's the case surely by the end of Klopp's 3 or 4 years we'll be owned by an oil rich playboy who'll bank roll Klopp to the Champions League or whoever replaces him?

Or was it all just unsubstantiated nonsense?

Personally I think Klopp is capable of delivering us a trophy or return to the top 4 (or both) providing he is supported as much as Rodgers was financially and we start to buy better for our buck.

Klopp already has trophies to his name and a Champions League final, really it is for Liverpool to give him the platform to continue succeeding, not for him to succeed in spite of the club structure.
 

lfc.eddie

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Just because we have hired a very good manager the owners are now obliged to keep the club even if there is a big offer for it? They owe it to Klopp some how? There is no owners other than probably Chelsea and City that would turn down an offer that would make them hefty profit after covering all the expenses they had dished out for the club. Every club in the league is for sale, it is just the matter of how much one is willing to offer.
 

Chewbazza

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Just because we have hired a very good manager the owners are now obliged to keep the club even if there is a big offer for it? They owe it to Klopp some how? There is no owners other than probably Chelsea and City that would turn down an offer that would make them hefty profit after covering all the expenses they had dished out for the club. Every club in the league is for sale, it is just the matter of how much one is willing to offer.
Once again you spectacularly miss the entire point.

It had been presented to us time and time again that FSG have no interest in long term success on the field but only in maximising profit from the sale of the club. The answer to 'what happens if Klopp fails over 3 to 4 years' doesn't really matter if by that point we have been sold to an oil rich organisation.

I don't understand your obsession with arguing things that people never actually say.
 

lfc.eddie

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I only have issues with people who love the "look at me, I told you so" attitude.... Sort of like Brendan Rodgers.
 

Chewbazza

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I only have issues with people who love the "look at me, I told you so" attitude.... Sort of like Brendan Rodgers.
Okay...

I'm just not convinced that the most effective way to deal with a difference of opinion is to argue with something that nobody said, which you tend to do a lot.
 

lfc.eddie

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Okay...

I'm just not convinced that the most effective way to deal with a difference of opinion is to argue with something that nobody said, which you tend to do a lot.
Well you made a passing remark in your post and I did the same. So it's kinda hard to say I am actually arguing with you though. But like everything in here, all I am saying is there is no evidence they aren't willing to sell as much as they are looking for a buyer. So we both formed our opinion on what we believe they would do, right?
 

Chewbazza

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Well you made a passing remark in your post and I did the same. So it's kinda hard to say I am actually arguing with you though. But like everything in here, all I am saying is there is no evidence they aren't willing to sell as much as they are looking for a buyer. So we both formed our opinion on what we believe they would do, right?

Not really. You directly quoted my post to say that FSG may be willing to sell for the right price.
My post said that when Klopp has finished the end of his 3 years the club may have been sold, presumably to an asset rich consortium who would be able to fund him or a new manager

Your reply was implying that I had said FSG won't sell now they have Klopp which is something I never said. You were basically agreeing with me that the club might be sold so I don't understand why you felt the need to imply I had said the opposite.

I think if I said that the world is round you'd take issue with it. Anyway, congratulations, yet another thread derailed for no worthwhile reason.
 

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
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how easy would a job interview with eddie be

me " I don't think im suited to this company"
ed "yes you are"
me "nah...not really, I just cant see myself here in two years time"
ed" bullshit, heres a five year contract"
me "eddie, ok, you've proven your point, but im not worth even half that much"
ed "what a load of shit, your worth double...see...here..."
me"i cant accept...maybe just pay me at the end of the contract"
ed " no...im paying you at the start...upfront"
me" you cant...that's not the way its done...think of the tax"
ed"it is the way its done, and you don't have to pay tax on cash"
me" oh....ok....ed....thanks, but you know im only in Malaysia on a weeks holiday"
ed" no youre not"