Aaron Ramsey (CM/AM) Arsenal

indianscouser

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#31
Id take him happily in Mid season. At the moment, We are dry in the attacking midfield department. If this has to happen, then it must be Jan. I would not want him in the summer as we could have better options.
Not exactly sure if he is klopp type player.
 

indianscouser

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#32
I think after the Fekir deal collapse we're not going to take a big risk so any deal with Ramsey will be medically thorough and i'm cool with that.
With Fekir, it was even a higher risk considering we were paying 50 million+.
If Ramsey is coming for free or for a value less than 20 million, i don't think it would be considered as "Risk".
If Fekir was for low transfer value, would we have backed down?
 

Koon

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#33
There are a few reasons why I wouldn't like having him:

1 - He is injury prone
2 - We already have an injury prone player is his position, Ox
3 - Playing Wenger style suits him, playing gegenpressing style would deplete him
4 - We have money to buy a better and reliable player
5 - He will be almost 28 and he will decline after that
6 - We want to get rid of Lallana, why would we buy another injury prone player?

Good player? For sure, no doubt about that. But we need really fit midfielders who can run a lot or a very creative player to compensate the lack of pressing/marking/running. Ramsey is not that player, imo.
 

Red over the water

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#34
I’m undecided on Ramsey. The injury record is the main concern.

I wouldn’t mind us unearthing a top quality youngster, or an unheralded player like when we went in for Zielinski for a relative pittance, only he went elsewhere and made a name for himself and would now cost a lot.

I’m relaxed about our recruitment though. The team overseeing that have more than shown that they know what they are doing.
 

JibJab

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#36
I want to wait to see how this midfield looks by the new year and who else is available before I commit to pursuing Ramsey. If Keita and Fabinho and Shaq and Lallana become quality contributors, we might not need Ramsey. On the other hand, if we need reinforcements, I'd rather we pursue someone better than Ramsey (if possible).
 

Caradoc

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#37
Its questionable whether Klopp should be throwing any more money at our midfield, certainly before we offload a couple of players. But if a player of Ramsey’s quality becomes available on a ‘free’ who could definitely improve our midfield, then so long as he fits Klopp’s master plan its a no-brainer. The only issue then is his fitness record but again, with no massive transfer outlay, its very low risk.
 

SithBaare

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#38
Ramsay is injury prone, the same as Ox. Quality player though.

Pool need to focus on getting the Milner extension.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#42
That’s what most of us thought but James Pearce revealed a few weeks ago that it is 2020.
Ramsey is technically gifted but can't run or graft enough to win Jurgen's respect. Would probably be another Joe Allen in our system i.e. a half decent player who doesn't suit us.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#43
Its questionable whether Klopp should be throwing any more money at our midfield, certainly before we offload a couple of players. But if a player of Ramsey’s quality becomes available on a ‘free’ who could definitely improve our midfield, then so long as he fits Klopp’s master plan its a no-brainer. The only issue then is his fitness record but again, with no massive transfer outlay, its very low risk.
If he came on a free, his agent would negotiate for astronomical wages. FSG would only pay if he was going to be a regular in the first team- not a squad player. Honestly, at the moment, I would rather have a fully fit and firing Adam Lallana. Whether Adam can regain his form is the question though?
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#44
£200k per week when he plays, sorted :-)
Could we pay a squad player the same amount as our regulars, though? I think that would be wrong. Someone who is always in the team (regardless whether they came on a free, or for a fee) should be paid more than a luxury squad player. If he plays and makes a contribution then 200k sounds good. But, do you think that he or his agent will like the fee he receives if he doesn't play. What would that be, about 80k pw.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#45
Id take him happily in Mid season. At the moment, We are dry in the attacking midfield department. If this has to happen, then it must be Jan. I would not want him in the summer as we could have better options.
Not exactly sure if he is klopp type player.
We are dry for an attacking mid because we don't play with one. Phil was a luxury and didn't always play. We started playing our best football when he left. The system we now use negates the need for a 10. Obviously, if we are not scoring loads of goals in the present, then people are going to be looking for reasons. If the front three were firing we would not be having this conversation. Our front 3 were so prolific that Kloppo has flooded the midfield with ball winners, and they've been doing a great job of getting the ball to them, but the front 3 are not putting the ball in the net. I'd rather stick with system we've got. 10's are slowly being phased out of the game. As creative as they are, they usually need lots of space to work. The space Phil used to play in, was a triangle between the FB, CB and DM, and that's why he was reduced to those shots form outside the box. When they went in, they were like wowww!, but more often than not he didn't get the time and space he needed and skied it over the bar. Very frustrating!
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#46
There are a few reasons why I wouldn't like having him:

1 - He is injury prone
2 - We already have an injury prone player is his position, Ox
3 - Playing Wenger style suits him, playing gegenpressing style would deplete him
4 - We have money to buy a better and reliable player
5 - He will be almost 28 and he will decline after that
6 - We want to get rid of Lallana, why would we buy another injury prone player?

Good player? For sure, no doubt about that. But we need really fit midfielders who can run a lot or a very creative player to compensate the lack of pressing/marking/running. Ramsey is not that player, imo.
If Milner is getting burn-out playing in our system then Ramsey would be destroyed. I don't think he is physically or mentally strong enough to play for L'pool in the present. Under previous managers, for sure; but not Klopp.
 

Dave-D

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#47
If Milner is getting burn-out playing in our system then Ramsey would be destroyed. I don't think he is physically or mentally strong enough to play for L'pool in the present. Under previous managers, for sure; but not Klopp.
According to members of the press, Klopp wanted him in the summer so it would seem he feels Ramsey is up to the tasks required of a Liverpool player.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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#48
According to members of the press, Klopp wanted him in the summer so it would seem he feels Ramsey is up to the tasks required of a Liverpool player.
Before or after the Fekihr deal fell through? If it was after then I feel it may have been a knee-jerk reaction. I didn't know Klopp rated him, I think it may be poor judgement, on his part. If Ramsey was the type of player we wanted he would be showing all the attributes now at Asenal, however, I don't believe he is. Technical stuff is sound, but i don't think he wants to the dirty stuff. I think playing alongside Ozil has had a negative effect on him.
 

legalalien

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#49
Its questionable whether Klopp should be throwing any more money at our midfield, certainly before we offload a couple of players. But if a player of Ramsey’s quality becomes available on a ‘free’ who could definitely improve our midfield, then so long as he fits Klopp’s master plan its a no-brainer. The only issue then is his fitness record but again, with no massive transfer outlay, its very low risk.
Obviously risk is not just financial. A player of Ramsey's calibre would want to be, and probably would be, a regular starter. So the risk is to the team and given that we already have an injury prone midfielder in Lallana and one that's knackered long-term, adding Ramsey to the team is just asking for trouble.
We need someone more robust but with a similar skillset. Maybe Rabiot or Zielinski?
 

Caradoc

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#50
Obviously risk is not just financial. A player of Ramsey's calibre would want to be, and probably would be, a regular starter. So the risk is to the team and given that we already have an injury prone midfielder in Lallana and one that's knackered long-term, adding Ramsey to the team is just asking for trouble.
We need someone more robust but with a similar skillset. Maybe Rabiot or Zielinski?

If its injuries that worry you, then I would be as/more concerned about Rabiot than Ramsey. Ramsey hasn’t had any knee injuries, Rabiot, at only 23, already has. Zielinski on the other hand appears to be built like a brick shithouse.
 

indianscouser

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#51
We are dry for an attacking mid because we don't play with one. Phil was a luxury and didn't always play. We started playing our best football when he left. The system we now use negates the need for a 10. Obviously, if we are not scoring loads of goals in the present, then people are going to be looking for reasons. If the front three were firing we would not be having this conversation. Our front 3 were so prolific that Kloppo has flooded the midfield with ball winners, and they've been doing a great job of getting the ball to them, but the front 3 are not putting the ball in the net. I'd rather stick with system we've got. 10's are slowly being phased out of the game. As creative as they are, they usually need lots of space to work. The space Phil used to play in, was a triangle between the FB, CB and DM, and that's why he was reduced to those shots form outside the box. When they went in, they were like wowww!, but more often than not he didn't get the time and space he needed and skied it over the bar. Very frustrating!
Not true! Coutinho was brilliant, he gave the front 3 the ammunition to fire.
After Coutinho went, Ox provided that dazzling forward runs. It lifted so much pressure from our front 3 as there was another player who would find those passes or enter the box late, another attacking player.
We simply don't have that with Ox injured. Our mid is decent, but big big absence of creativity. Something which needs addressing.
 

Mascot88

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#52
I’d be really concerned about this, as I’m already really concerned about how injury prone the squad is.

Gomez, Van Dijk, Matip, Lovren, Henderson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lallana, Sturridge, and Brewster all have patchy attendance records.

The idea that you can take a risk on a lad who is injury prone if he is free makes sense from a financial point of view, but doesn’t make much sense when squad building. Ramsey would take a spot in the squad, and at this point I would rather pay for a player we can rely on than grab a cheap freebie.

If we want to pick up a midfielder on the cheap I’d go for Rabiot.
 

Zoran

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#53
One thing I don't understand is what the hell are United trying to do. If their interest is genuine and if it's Jose, not the club trying to push that deal (whoever the manager is if/when Jose leaves at some point in the next 6/12 months). Ramsey sounds like the last thing their midfield needs. They're struggling to find the right balance even within their, let's call it 'main' midfield trio; Matic (a quality player for stability but was better in a two than holding on his own), Fred (what is he anyway?) and Pogba (showed in Russia at times that he can do it, but where do we start...). Another player who played at Arsenal level for the last few years and who floated between #8 and #10? United's planning is a mess if you ask me, a lot of it (main part) is Jose indeed, but the top of their club is also making some bad calls (and that's where Jose seeks his justification, but that might work against him).

As from our perspective, I'm not sure. On the fence. Maybe leaning just slightly on the 'yes' (like I'd take him into consideration, but would love to see what are our other options) side, but a lot of factors scream 'no' as well. Plenty of questions with our midfielders too at the moment and thinking as a fan (not knowing what Klopp has in mind, if Ramsey is only among a list of names), I'd rather wait to see how our current midfield evolves until January. What will Fabinho (not a cheap investment for us at all) even show in his first season, how if Naby progressing, how much can Lallana and Ox give us, if anything. Certainly not straightforward for me.
 

Caradoc

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#54
Before or after the Fekihr deal fell through? If it was after then I feel it may have been a knee-jerk reaction. I didn't know Klopp rated him, I think it may be poor judgement, on his part. If Ramsey was the type of player we wanted he would be showing all the attributes now at Asenal, however, I don't believe he is. Technical stuff is sound, but i don't think he wants to the dirty stuff. I think playing alongside Ozil has had a negative effect on him.

Klopp rarely, if ever, does ‘knee-jerk reactions’ ........

As for good footballing judgement I’m 100% certain that Klopp’s trumps your’s hands down! :well done:
 

ubermick

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#55
If we want to pick up a midfielder on the cheap I’d go for Rabiot.
Would rather that myself, but don't think he'll come cheap - there's going to be a bidding war for him come January. Not so much the transfer fee (although it'll be high for someone winding down their contract) but the contracts and signing bonuses that'll be on offer. I know he's a boyhood fan, but would imagine we'll have to make him our highest earner or close to for that to happen.

Ramsey on the other hand will have fewer suitors, and has the benefit of being homegrown as well for the purposes of our CL squad (and won't be cup tied either)
 



Mascot88

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#56
Would rather that myself, but don't think he'll come cheap - there's going to be a bidding war for him come January. Not so much the transfer fee (although it'll be high for someone winding down their contract) but the contracts and signing bonuses that'll be on offer. I know he's a boyhood fan, but would imagine we'll have to make him our highest earner or close to for that to happen.

Ramsey on the other hand will have fewer suitors, and has the benefit of being homegrown as well for the purposes of our CL squad (and won't be cup tied either)
Putting Rabiot to one side...

There is maybe room in the squad for 6-8 lads for the three midfield positions. That includes Fabinho, Milner, Henderson, Keita, Wijnaldum and Ox - none of whom I’m in any rush to move on. Then you then have promising lads like Woodburn, Grujic and Jones knocking about. (Assuming Lallana moves on in Jan/Summer)

We are already, to varying degrees, carrying/managing the fitness of Henderson, and Ox, and Milner is now possibly reaching the point where he needs to be managed.

My point is that if you are managing the fitness of too many lads, and have too many you know - just from their track record - you’re only realistically going to have for half a season, that 6-8 lads can soon start to feel more like 3-4.

On balance I would rather spend another big wedge of cash if necessary, than go for the injury prone freebie.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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#57
Would rather that myself, but don't think he'll come cheap - there's going to be a bidding war for him come January. Not so much the transfer fee (although it'll be high for someone winding down their contract) but the contracts and signing bonuses that'll be on offer. I know he's a boyhood fan, but would imagine we'll have to make him our highest earner or close to for that to happen.

Ramsey on the other hand will have fewer suitors, and has the benefit of being homegrown as well for the purposes of our CL squad (and won't be cup tied either)
I'm not sure of the source, but I'm sure I've seen people talking about Ramsey being after a £200k p/w contract (maybe that was what he was being offered by Arsenal?). If that is indeed the case and that's what he's going to want to be paid, I'm sure a deal could be done for Rabiot instead.
 

Limiescouse

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#58
I don't get the comparison. Ramsay is putatively attractive because he is something we currently lack, a reliable scorer of goals from midfield. Rabiot is many things, but he is not that. Yes there is the age difference, and goals from midfield is often a learned skill that comes later with age, but there is also the fact that the only person who seems to view Rabiot as an attacking midfielder is himself.
 

GermanRed

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#59
I don't get the comparison. Ramsay is putatively attractive because he is something we currently lack, a reliable scorer of goals from midfield. Rabiot is many things, but he is not that. Yes there is the age difference, and goals from midfield is often a learned skill that comes later with age, but there is also the fact that the only person who seems to view Rabiot as an attacking midfielder is himself.
They are both central midfielders (not Defensive mids), both available on free transfers in the summer and both will have suitors from the - let’s say Top 12 - CL Clubs. That’s where the comparisons come from.
 

Mascot88

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#60
I don't get the comparison. Ramsay is putatively attractive because he is something we currently lack, a reliable scorer of goals from midfield. Rabiot is many things, but he is not that. Yes there is the age difference, and goals from midfield is often a learned skill that comes later with age, but there is also the fact that the only person who seems to view Rabiot as an attacking midfielder is himself.
I think Rabiot sees himself as a more attacking mid, but has been used as DM by PSG. One of the reasons he wants to get off.