Aaron Ramsey (CM/AM) Arsenal

rupzzz

TIA Regular
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
6,658
Likes
5,484
#63
Rabiot is a decent footballer as is Ramsey. Both have a history of injuries, and either, or both, would be decent business for the club.

We have seen from the Fekir deal, that the medicals are taken seriously and a deal will stall if the club are not sure. This is what gives me comfort.

If they're free and their sign on fees and wages make sense, get them in I say. Whether or not they fit....That's for Klopp to work out.

On which id prefer if it was one or the other, that's easy, Ramsey. He knows the league, is British, and is more a goal scorer than Rabiot. He might be older, but he'd have less of a bedding in period.
 

Zinedine Biscan

Never go full Lovren
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
20,719
Likes
34,821
#64
Right. That's my point.
Why does Rabiot have to be an AM to be desirable for our team? With Keita and (from next season) Ox in the squad, maybe Lallana too depending on what happens with him over the summer, possibly Shaqiri also, I don't think there's a burning need for Ramsey. However with Milner getting older and question marks over Henderson, in my opinion there's room for a strong CM with decent offensive and defensive capabilities.
 

GermanRed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
1,840
Likes
2,622
#65
Why does Rabiot have to be an AM to be desirable for our team? With Keita and (from next season) Ox in the squad, maybe Lallana too depending on what happens with him over the summer, possibly Shaqiri also, I don't think there's a burning need for Ramsey. However with Milner getting older and question marks over Henderson, in my opinion there's room for a strong CM with decent offensive and defensive capabilities.
Where are Wijnaldum and Grujic and maybe Fabinho too in your calculation?
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
11,734
Likes
15,587
#66
Why does Rabiot have to be an AM to be desirable for our team?
He doesn't have to be. But it would make sense for him to be if he is offered up as an alternative to a player whose putative attraction is because he adds a reliable source of goals from midfield that our current side lacks.
 

Zinedine Biscan

Never go full Lovren
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
20,719
Likes
34,821
#67
Where are Wijnaldum and Grujic and maybe Fabinho too in your calculation?
Fabinho plays in a different position than the one I was talking about, Grujic is a bust imo, and quite honestly I plain forgot about Gini. But I think he has plenty to offer as well.

Keita, Ox, Rabiot, Gini, Milner, Fabinho and Hendo is a very strong midfield, with at least two players for each specialised position (an 8, a shuttler and a DM), plus a floater in Gini who can play all of those.
 

Zinedine Biscan

Never go full Lovren
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
20,719
Likes
34,821
#68
He doesn't have to be. But it would make sense for him to be if he is offered up as an alternative to a player whose putative attraction is because he adds a reliable source of goals from midfield that our current side lacks.
I'm not one of those saying that, though. I don't think Ramsey is particularly needed, am concerned about his fitness record and don't think he's a big enough source of goals to be worth overlooking the first two points.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
10,572
Likes
6,921
#69
He doesn't have to be. But it would make sense for him to be if he is offered up as an alternative to a player whose putative attraction is because he adds a reliable source of goals from midfield that our current side lacks.
Since when has Ramsey been a reliable source of goals? Rabiot has mostly been playing deeper than Ramsey has so it makes sense for him to score more. But it's hardly like Ramsey is chalking up spectacular scoring stats. He's hardly a contender for what Fekir would have offered. I think, played in the same roles, you wouldn't get much difference in terms of goal scoring between the two. That isn't what is be making my decision between the two on.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

Captain of the Sandon Hotel's debating team
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Messages
75
Likes
29
#70
Obviously risk is not just financial. A player of Ramsey's calibre would want to be, and probably would be, a regular starter. So the risk is to the team and given that we already have an injury prone midfielder in Lallana and one that's knackered long-term, adding Ramsey to the team is just asking for trouble.
We need someone more robust but with a similar skillset. Maybe Rabiot or Zielinski?
I know I'm digressing a bit, and he's not a #10, but I really rate Son Heung Min of Spurs. I think he'd be brilliant in our system, because he's very busy and direct. Whether he could handle our pressing game is another matter, but I think he's a Klopp player all day.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

Captain of the Sandon Hotel's debating team
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Messages
75
Likes
29
#71
Not true! Coutinho was brilliant, he gave the front 3 the ammunition to fire.
After Coutinho went, Ox provided that dazzling forward runs. It lifted so much pressure from our front 3 as there was another player who would find those passes or enter the box late, another attacking player.
We simply don't have that with Ox injured. Our mid is decent, but big big absence of creativity. Something which needs addressing.
No, in patches he was brilliant, especially just before his exit because he was still toying with idea of a new contract, but you have your rose-tinted spectacles on if you can only remember him being brilliant all the time. I think that's sentimentality on your part. But, no he was good and has a great showreel, but what I'm saying is correct in that he shot from outside the box too often. As a creative mid he should have been able to unlock low blocking sides, but the truth is that more often than not he couldn't. Great on the counter attack though.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

Captain of the Sandon Hotel's debating team
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Messages
75
Likes
29
#72
Klopp rarely, if ever, does ‘knee-jerk reactions’ ........

As for good footballing judgement I’m 100% certain that Klopp’s trumps your’s hands down! :well done:
Every human being makes knee-jerk reactions. Why do people on here always want to protect players and Klopp. If someone says something slightly negative you people get all protective and your silly little "Likey Mikeys" jog in. In Liverpool, we love our team and its personnel, but not to the point of being happy-clappers. What's all this "Klopp has better judgement than you" crap. Get a grip. I bet you can't even play footie, and get all your info about the game from Youtube and social media. You sound like someone off Sky Sports, or something. Na, seriously though: How many keepie-ups can you do? 2, 3? All this "Klopp rarely, if ever, does 'Knee-jerk reactions" stuff makes you sound like Mr Smithers off The Simpsons. Take it easy! Trust me as a native scouser, no one loves Klopp more than I do but Jesus Christ all I'm saying is that he doesn't normally rate a player like Ramsey who doesn't graft. I watch Ramsey all the time, and I'm sorry but Klopp has got this one wrong. Is that O.K. with you, Mrs Klopp? If you only want to come on here and say, "Hooray for Liverpool", then what's the point? Besides, you're only saying that YOU trust Klopp's judgment. But, tell me why YOU think Ramsey is the kind of player we need, how he will function in our system and how he will bring an end to this goal drought. Because, let's face it, we are only talking about prospective number 10s because of it. As soon as we start banging them in again (like 6 a game, or something), everybody will drop the 10 talk and all the entertainment junkies will be quiet again and get fat off the goal feasts. I've noticed that only people who haven't got a clue are talking about a 10. Most people know that our current system suits us best and its down to the front 3 (whoever it may be) to start putting the ball away. Klopp wants a 10 for a plan B. He's doesn't like them. He likes false 9s. Besides, who will make way in the midfield? We have been winning the ball brilliantly with (effectively) DMs. Put Ramsey in there and teams start controlling the midfield. Gini, Milly and Hendo have been brilliant at winning the ball. Ramsey will deplete that. No 10s are almost a thing of the past.
 
Last edited:

Drubas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
1,050
Likes
745
#74
I would like to claim that all successful teams don't have injury prone players as part of their core. Going into a season with players like Matip, Sturridge, Lallana, Ox and to some extent Henderson and Lovren... it's just too much of a gamble. I wouldn't add Ramsey to that lot.
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
7,773
Likes
4,667
#75
No 10s are almost a thing of the past.
lol. Not to take this out of context from the rest of your spiel, but it’s a bit much

The #10 isn’t a dying breed, most teams still have a player with the qualities of that role but utilized in a different part of the pitch. Some of the most expensive players in the world

Neymar - PSG, may line up as a winger but often plays central
Coutinho (Iniesta before) - Barca
Isco/Asensio - Real Madrid
Dybala - Juventus
Fekir - Lyon (didn’t we try to buy him?)
Milik - Napoli
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
18,413
Likes
30,658
#76
Every human being makes knee-jerk reactions. Why do people on here always want to protect players and Klopp. If someone says something slightly negative you people get all protective and your silly little "Likey Mikeys" jog in. In Liverpool, we love our team and its personnel, but not to the point of being happy-clappers. What's all this "Klopp has better judgement than you" crap. Get a grip. I bet you can't even play footie, and get all your info about the game from Youtube and social media. You sound like someone off Sky Sports, or something. Na, seriously though: How many keepie-ups can you do? 2, 3? All this "Klopp rarely, if ever, does 'Knee-jerk reactions" stuff makes you sound like Mr Smithers off The Simpsons. Take it easy! Trust me as a native scouser, no one loves Klopp more than I do but Jesus Christ all I'm saying is that he doesn't normally rate a player like Ramsey who doesn't graft. I watch Ramsey all the time, and I'm sorry but Klopp has got this one wrong. Is that O.K. with you, Mrs Klopp? If you only want to come on here and say, "Hooray for Liverpool", then what's the point? Besides, you're only saying that YOU trust Klopp's judgment. But, tell me why YOU think Ramsey is the kind of player we need, how he will function in our system and how he will bring an end to this goal drought. Because, let's face it, we are only talking about prospective number 10s because of it. As soon as we start banging them in again (like 6 a game, or something), everybody will drop the 10 talk and all the entertainment junkies will be quiet again and get fat off the goal feasts. I've noticed that only people who haven't got a clue are talking about a 10. Most people know that our current system suits us best and its down to the front 3 (whoever it may be) to start putting the ball away. Klopp wants a 10 for a plan B. He's doesn't like them. He likes false 9s. Besides, who will make way in the midfield? We have been winning the ball brilliantly with (effectively) DMs. Put Ramsey in there and teams start controlling the midfield. Gini, Milly and Hendo have been brilliant at winning the ball. Ramsey will deplete that. No 10s are almost a thing of the past.
You can have a warning point for these needless personal attacks. Wind it in please, or a ban will follow.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
11,734
Likes
15,587
#77
lol. Not to take this out of context from the rest of your spiel, but it’s a bit much

The #10 isn’t a dying breed, most teams still have a player with the qualities of that role but utilized in a different part of the pitch. Some of the most expensive players in the world

Neymar - PSG, may line up as a winger but often plays central
Coutinho (Iniesta before) - Barca
Isco/Asensio - Real Madrid
Dybala - Juventus
Fekir - Lyon (didn’t we try to buy him?)
Milik - Napoli
Yet that kind of makes his point. Of those players only Fekir regularly plays as an actual 10. The rest have all had to adapt to other roles to actually get on the pitch. With the exception of Neymar, they have then all faced the challenge of not being defined by what they cannot bring to that role in comparison to someone who is a more natural fit to play as a wide forward or a CM. I think Dybala has been particularly affected by this. Vickery did an interesting piece the other week about the challenges Phil has brought to Barca - his best role is a free one Barca dont have, his best role in their set up is in Dembele's position, and with the pressure the suits are applying to get that asset into the side Phil has had to take a deeper role that is directly contributing to Barca's deficenies without the ball and wastefulness with it. Basically the problem the Brazil side faced once Tite dropped Phil into the deeper role to replace Augusto.

I would even argue that Neymar made the transition better than the rest not because he is better, but because he is more suited to that wide striker role than he would have ever been to that of an old fashioned number 10.
 
Last edited:

loudmouthmiller1892

Captain of the Sandon Hotel's debating team
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Messages
75
Likes
29
#78
Yet that kind of makes his point. Of those players only Fekir regularly plays as an actual 10. The rest have all had to adapt to other roles to actually get on the pitch. With the exception of Neymar, they have then all faced the challenge of not being defined by what they cannot bring to that role in comparison to someone who is a more natural fit to play as a wide forward or a CM. I think Dybala has been particularly affected by this. Vickery did an interesting piece the other week about the challenges Phil has brought to Barca - his best role is a free one Barca dont have, his best role in their set up is in Dembele's position, and with the pressure the suits are applying to get that asset into the side Phil has had to take a deeper role that is directly contributing to Barca's deficenies without the ball and wastefulness with it. Basically the problem the Brazil side faced once Tite dropped Phil into the deeper role to replace Augusto.

I would even argue that Neymar made the transition better than the rest not because he is better, but because he is more suited to that wide striker role than he would have ever been to that of an old fashioned number 10.
Yes, we were going to buy Fekihr, but is Semmy seriously suggesting that we were going to rejig our entire system to accommodate him? He would have been a bench player (well, to begin with at least). I'm glad fans aren't in charge of the destiny of our club, because if they were then they would be out there trawling the leagues looking for a 10, and probably purchase one in a knee-jerk reaction to our current predicament. It could be a panic buy that doesn't work out so it is money down the drain. Wouldn't it be easier to recognize the fact that Studge has come on for Firmino and scored. This is because he's a better finisher than Bobby. It's the finishing that's been the problem, not the approach play. So any 10 would have to create chances for HIMSELF to finish. Like I say, we've had no problem with build up as we're creating chances, but just not finishing them. Studge is already a Liverpool player, so let's just bring him on when Bobby isn't firing. We have evidence that it works: Chelsea worldie! That's what I mean about the some of the people on here: going along with what's being said in the media. I'm not a genius, but I don't have to be to recognize that it's easier to bring Studge off the bench than it is to buy a 10 in January.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
18,413
Likes
30,658
#79
Yes, we were going to buy Fekihr, but is Semmy seriously suggesting that we were going to rejig our entire system to accommodate him? He would have been a bench player (well, to begin with at least).
I think the idea is not to have 11 first teamers and a bench players beyond. Ideally we want 18-20 interchangeable lads who can all share 11 positions.

Fekir would have played at the top of midfield, linking with the front three. He would have also been able to cover Mane or Bobby. Having seen him a couple of times, I think it’s clear as day why Klopp wanted him.

Also I disagree that we are creating chances. While I agree the front three are going through a spell of profligacy compared to last year, I think there is definitely a problem linking midfield and attack. In short, we are missing Ox and did from the minute he got stretchered off. We don’t have anyone who can do that until Keita settles, and as I type this it looks like the international break has fucked him too.
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
7,773
Likes
4,667
#80
@loudmouthmiller1892 @Mascot88 what I am trying to say is it’s not like the player with the qualities of a traditional #10 don’t exist, but rather the systems they are being employed in are much more dynamic than a standard formation

Going back to Iniesta and the Barca 4-2-2-2 which was so prolific 6-8 years ago, he could be found in a number of different positions all over the pitch. But for the most part, Pep employed boundaries for certain areas of the pitch the players were somewhat restrained to. But from what I understand of it, there were no restrictions in the attacking third and that is the area where a “10” could do a lot of damage. Hazard is an excellent example of a player who could pop up anywhere along the front line but is set up as a LW/ST. Same for Neymar as previously mentioned.

Not trying to disagree with you persay, more of a trying to look at it with a different view?

Coutinho used to do a lot of damage cutting in from the left side onto his right foot (inverted winger) and I think that is what we miss in Mané as he tend to run at the byline instead of that cutback as he has a left foot to use as well. I was hoping Keita would follow a similar pattern as Coutinho, isolating an opponent FB in a 2v1 to create space but he seems to play much deeper

That said, our GD has improved drastically so not really complaining
 

Tomeboi7

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
1
Likes
0
#81
Arsenal star Aaron Ramsey at centre of Liverpool and Manchester United transfer fight
EXCLUSIVE
JAMES OLLEY

Liverpool and Manchester United are weighing up a cut-price January move for Arsenal midfielder Aaron Ramsey.

Talks between the Gunners and the 27-year-old Welshman broke down last month after the club withdrew a contract offer which had been on the table for several months.

Ramsey, whose deal expires at the end of the season, is free to negotiate with overseas teams from January 1.

AC Milan, Inter Milan and Juventus are among several sides monitoring the situation, but Ramsey is thought to prefer staying in England, with his family settled in London and his wife shortly due to give birth to twins.

Liverpool and United have a long-standing interest in Ramsey — the latter tried to sign him when he left Cardiff for Emirates Stadium in 2008 — and Standard Sport understands senior figures at Arsenal believe there is a strong possibility at least one of the clubs will try to take advantage of the contract impasse.

Liverpool are the most likely candidates, given Jurgen Klopp is a keen admirer of Ramsey and wants to strengthen his midfield after missing out on Nabil Fekir from Lyon.

The Fekir deal collapsed in the summer and it would cost in excess of £50million to revive, but Ramsey is likely to be available for less than half that figure, given he currently has just six months left to run on his contract.

Arsenal have drawn criticism for selling to direct rivals in the past, but Unai Emery is keen to raise funds to continue rebuilding his squad and so the chance to recoup some money for Ramsey would appeal as he looks at alternatives, which include Atlanta United midfielder Miguel Almiron and Porto captain Hector Herrera.

Liverpool head into the international break in third place in the Premier League on goal difference, but there are concerns over whether their squad is strong enough to replicate Klopp’s high-intensity style in the Champions League, while maintaining a title bid.

Ramsey consistently registers high numbers for distance covered and sprints in matches. He also appears to have put a chequered fitness record behind him, having responded well to Emery’s tougher training regime, which has involved double sessions and increased gym work.

Klopp already has a variety of midfield options and it is unclear whether Ramsey would be willing to join a club where he was merely a squad player. However, an increase on the Wales international’s £110,000-a-week wage would not be an issue at Anfield or Old Trafford.

United signed Fred from Shakhtar Donetsk for £52m in the summer but have struggled badly for creativity in a difficult campaign under Jose Mourinho. Ongoing uncertainty over Mourinho’s future would make United a less appealing option, but their vast financial resources enable them to make Ramsey a lucrative offer.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...anchester-united-transfer-fight-a3958041.html
There are a few reasons why I wouldn't like having him:

1 - He is injury prone
2 - We already have an injury prone player is his position, Ox
3 - Playing Wenger style suits him, playing gegenpressing style would deplete him
4 - We have money to buy a better and reliable player
5 - He will be almost 28 and he will decline after that
6 - We want to get rid of Lallana, why would we buy another injury prone player?

Good player? For sure, no doubt about that. But we need really fit midfielders who can run a lot or a very creative player to compensate the lack of pressing/marking/running. Ramsey is not that player, imo.
Spot on! Nail right on the head!!!
 

steveee

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
2,211
Likes
1,678
#84
it's pretty much the same thing most said about Ox when we were rumored for him. Why?! If Klopp wants him then I'm sure there is a reason. he was easily without question Arsenal's best player last season. so to act shocked that we might be in for him is strange to me by some. I can see us in for him or Rabiot at end of season to replace Lallana and or Milner
 

Red Ted

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
421
Likes
618
#85
If we signed him then OK we'll see, if not then I couldn't care less.

His wages will be an issue by the sounds of it, he'll be wanting wages that'll make him our top earner, even if he is free or a small January fee that doesn't seem right.

He smells of the mancs.