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Andy Carroll - To West Ham or Anywhere

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darren kelly

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Good bye Andy.I was going to make a best bits video but there was so little to find in a red jersey I gave up.All the best at West Ham.May they blow bubbles in your name.

I am shocked the are giving us so much cash for him lol.
 


Hope in your heart

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I wish the lad well. It's not his fault that he was dragged over here with a last-minute record transfer sum (against his wish, let's remember that), and then had to live up to the resulting expectations, while similarly having to cope with bad injuries, which seriously hampered his bedding in his new club.

As far as I can see, he never let us down by lack of comittment, and when he was gaining fitness, he looked like a real player at times. But the whole sh*t surrounding his transfer was just too much to cope for him at that stage of his career. It would have been far better for him to stay a couple more years at Newcastle before making a big move. As it is, the move to LFC has proven to be the Midas touch for him, covering him with gold, but hampering his overall development as a footballer.


Now, this whole sorry affair is done. West Ham get a very useful, and potentially great player for a fair amount of money. Contrarily to us, they'll know how to use him, and I guess it will be a good investment for them, provided he can stay away from injuries, which has always been my biggest concern regarding this player.

As for us, like many, I'm relieved that the club can at least recoup a part of the money initially invested. Like Mick said, hopefully lessons have been learnt, and we'll never again spend such ridiculous amounts on a largely unproven youngster. 35m is something you pay for a proven world-class player, not for an injured young player with potential. That move was Comolli's downfall, and rightly so. It probably played also a large part in Kenny's dismissal, which seems unfair to me, as it was Comolli who was the negociator among the two, not Kenny. It's sure though that Andy played a big role in the recent upheavals at this club.

But I think it's not excluded that we will see Andy blossom from now on, as West Ham seems to be a good place for him. He should score many goals from now on if he can stay fit, and I wouldn't be surprised to see many guys in here (the same who are celebrating now) lamenting his departure in a couple of years. Time will tell, but it's probably the best to part ways now anyway.

Wish you good luck, Andy, you deserve some after a truly unfortunate spell at LFC.
 

rab

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£2m loan fee. £4.16m for his wages last season. 6 year contract at £4.16m totals £24.96m. £15.5m transfer fee plus £2m in add ons that could be triggered.

Total potential outlay from West Ham on Andy Carroll £48.62m! That's some faith they are showing in him.

Great deal to have got out of West Ham for us. Had little faith in us getting more than £12m so a possible £17.5m plus the £2m loan fee means we've potentially only lost around £15.5m on him :D
 

Nikola

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So, all in all, we got 17.5 million pounds and could get two more, while getting him off the wage bill... Well, save what you can save, I guess. I hope that both club and fans have learned lessons from this transfer.
 



Nikola

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Zinedine Biscan said:
What lesson do the fans have to learn, Nik?
Not to overrate new signings. Not to heap enormous pressure on them, only to insult them later, call them horses on Twitter etc. Not to make a song for a player before he's kicked a ball for this club.
 

Clive

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Nikola13 said:
I hope that both club and fans have learned lessons from this transfer.
on this theme, this was Comolli's explanation after he was sacked:

"If you want to talk about the Carroll deal, the situation was quite clear," he said. "The way we looked at it, we were selling two players, Fernando Torres and Ryan Babel, and we were bringing two in, Luis Suarez and Carroll, and we were making a profit and the wage bill was coming down as well. It was a four-player deal.

"Chelsea kept bidding higher and higher [for Torres], until we got to a point where the difference between their first and final bid was double. They [FSG] asked me what the risks were and I said that if things don't go well you'll lose something on Andy, but it is difficult to measure whether you will make money if things go well because Liverpool aren't a selling club and he could be here for ten years.

"They asked Kenny and myself if we were happy to do the deal. We said 'yes' and they said they were happy to take the risk because Fernando had to go."

I really think that is an over simplification. Just because it was a four player deal, doesn't mean it's ok to get shafted royally for one of them?

I really think it was political, and that FSG bought Andy because (as new owners) they were concerned about the fan's reaction to selling Torres and sitting on the cash. I think it was the owners and club's fault that they splurged on Andy, rather than the fan's, because the fan base would have been mature enough to be pragmatic, with proper communication on the clubs part.

I often wonder what it might have been had we bided our time and spent the money wisely. In the top 10 all time LFC clangers for me. Lets hope we don't make the same mistake if Suarez goes towards the end of the answer window.
 

T.C.B

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Nikola13 said:
Not to overrate new signings. Not to heap enormous pressure on them, only to insult them later, call them horses on Twitter etc. Not to make a song for a player before he's kicked a ball for this club.
Not to blame the player when he fails to live up to a ridiculous fee that was not of his making.......

and

Never allow another club to fleece us just because we have money in our pockets and a need for a player......

and

Play hardball with clubs like Madrid when they want our best just like Newcastle did with us. Do the screwing for a change starting with Luis if we really have to. (I hope he gives us one more year though)

That and good luck Andy. Its a shame it didn't work out for you here but it was a panic buy for a shameful fee. My dad is a Hammers fan so I wish you all the best there.
 



Cortez

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Nikola13 said:
Not to overrate new signings.
I think, when you sign a £35m player dubbed the next English superstar striker, it's hard to accept what Carroll offered.
 

rab

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Clive said:
I really think it was political, and that FSG bought Andy because (as new owners) they were conerned about the fan's reaction to selling Torres and sitting on the cash. I think it was the owners and club's fault that they splurged on Andy, rather than the fan's, because the fan base would have been mature enough to be pragmatic, with proper communication on the clubs part.
At the time I felt this was the case. With the wounds of H&G so fresh there would have been uproar among the fans had Torres and Babel left and only Suarez come in. People would have instantly jumped on them as asset stripping the club to line their own pockets and no amount of assurances from them would have led us to believe anything else given what we'd endured for the previous two years. I'm not sure even the most mature and trusting of fans would have sat back quietly and watched Torres and Babel go for £58m with only Suarez coming in for £23m. That £35m profit on the deal would have been used to hammer FSG on a daily basis until the summer no matter what messages they put out. They were just too new to be trusted on their word at that time, many still don't trust their word to this day.

I feel in a way they did the right thing by trying to show they were different to G&H. Had they been further into their ownership then I think the trust would have been there from a large enough percentage of the fans to see them hold onto the cash and spend it more thoughtfully in the summer rather than rush through an over the top deal.
 

Nikola

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Cortez said:
I think, when you sign a £35m player dubbed the next English superstar striker, it's hard to accept what Carroll offered.
It's not his fault we paid that money, though. It's a shame it didn't work out, I really wanted him to but it wasn't to be.
 

northjet

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rab said:
£2m loan fee. £4.16m for his wages last season. 6 year contract at £4.16m totals £24.96m. £15.5m transfer fee plus £2m in add ons that could be triggered.

Total potential outlay from West Ham on Andy Carroll £48.62m! That's some faith they are showing in him.

Great deal to have got out of West Ham for us. Had little faith in us getting more than £12m so a possible £17.5m plus the £2m loan fee means we've potentially only lost around £15.5m on him :D
It's a good deal for us, and just may turn out to be a winner for WH. Just imagine what Andy could be like if they can get a Christian Vieri type mentality instilled in him. Any one who can get Ferguson crying to the press over the brutalising of his centre-backs and goal-keeper must have something going for him.
 



Clive

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rab said:
At the time I felt this was the case. With the wounds of H&G so fresh there would have been uproar among the fans had Torres and Babel left and only Suarez come in. People would have instantly jumped on them as asset stripping the club to line their own pockets and no amount of assurances from them would have led us to believe anything else given what we'd endured for the previous two years. I'm not sure even the most mature and trusting of fans would have sat back quietly and watched Torres and Babel go for £58m with only Suarez coming in for £23m. That £35m profit on the deal would have been used to hammer FSG on a daily basis until the summer no matter what messages they put out. They were just too new to be trusted on their word at that time, many still don't trust their word to this day.

I feel in a way they did the right thing by trying to show they were different to G&H. Had they been further into their ownership then I think the trust would have been there from a large enough percentage of the fans to see them hold onto the cash and spend it more thoughtfully in the summer rather than rush through an over the top deal.
I can certainly see your (well made) point. Just feel that FSG could have blamed Torres for leaving us in the lurch, and promised to spend the cash wisely in the summer. The risk that Comolli talks about, like the fee, was massive. We will never know now.

I can't pretend I was as understanding at the Time though. Whilst I was vary wary about the fee, I was generally ok with Carroll coming in. I think I would have been ok with holding onto the cash as well though, if communicated properly.
 

norwegian wood

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Very good deal for us, and as long as Allardyce is their manager it should also be a good deal for West Ham.

Andy now gets to play for a team that suits his strengths and should be a very useful player for them for many years. Best of luck to him.
 

Mascot88

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Excellent job getting 17m back on this. Good move for Andy too, but I do wonder how long the West Ham fans are going to tolerate the kind of route one approach that he has been bought for.

At some point the Hammers are going to shake Allardyce's hand, thank him for re-establishing them in the PL and look to a more attacking manager. When that happens Andy has a problem.

But it isn't our problem, so never mind.

The lessons from the painful episode have been learnt by the club it seems. Carroll was a panic signing pure and simple, and for that the owners must take must if the blame. There is no logic to spending 35m on an injured youngster with six months top flight football under his belt, beyond "we're terrified of looking like we're selling owners".

Maybe the were in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation, but I would have preferred to limp on to the end of that season with Kuyt and N'Gog upfront and then spent the money propey in the summer.
 

rupzzz

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Hope in your heart said:
I wish the lad well. It's not his fault that he was dragged over here with a last-minute record transfer sum (against his wish, let's remember that), and then had to live up to the resulting expectations, while similarly having to cope with bad injuries, which seriously hampered his bedding in his new club.

As far as I can see, he never let us down by lack of comittment, and when he was gaining fitness, he looked like a real player at times. But the whole sh*t surrounding his transfer was just too much to cope for him at that stage of his career. It would have been far better for him to stay a couple more years at Newcastle before making a big move. As it is, the move to LFC has proven to be the Midas touch for him, covering him with gold, but hampering his overall development as a footballer.


Now, this whole sorry affair is done. West Ham get a very useful, and potentially great player for a fair amount of money. Contrarily to us, they'll know how to use him, and I guess it will be a good investment for them, provided he can stay away from injuries, which has always been my biggest concern regarding this player.

As for us, like many, I'm relieved that the club can at least recoup a part of the money initially invested. Like Mick said, hopefully lessons have been learnt, and we'll never again spend such ridiculous amounts on a largely unproven youngster. 35m is something you pay for a proven world-class player, not for an injured young player with potential. That move was Comolli's downfall, and rightly so. It probably played also a large part in Kenny's dismissal, which seems unfair to me, as it was Comolli who was the negociator among the two, not Kenny. It's sure though that Andy played a big role in the recent upheavals at this club.

But I think it's not excluded that we will see Andy blossom from now on, as West Ham seems to be a good place for him. He should score many goals from now on if he can stay fit, and I wouldn't be surprised to see many guys in here (the same who are celebrating now) lamenting his departure in a couple of years. Time will tell, but it's probably the best to part ways now anyway.

Wish you good luck, Andy, you deserve some after a truly unfortunate spell at LFC.
Out of likes for the day - great post mate.

Also, worth reminding folk that although we spend £35M on Carroll, the deal Comolli always wanted was Carroll and £15M in our pockets for Torres. We got that, so, in my opinion, it doesn't really matter. Originally the fee's being discussed (if I remember correctly) were £20M for Carroll so we were going to sell Torres to Chelsea for £35M.

I suspect that a lot of the fans that were so disgruntled by the fact that we paid so much for Carroll would not be too fussed if we had only paid the £20M for Carroll (before Mike Ashley got wind of the deal and upped his price) and then were in a postion of selling him for £17.5M and a £2M loan fee, effectivly recouping the majority of the money back.

All the best to Big Andy - I really hoped he'd be a great success here, but he's not a good match for the way we play football these days and I think ultimately that's why he suffered (alongside Hopes point about the pressure of the fee). At WHU he has a real chance to get back to what he is capable of.
 



Mascot88

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rupzzz said:
Also, worth reminding folk that although we spend £35M on Carroll, the deal Comolli always wanted was Carroll and £15M in our pockets for Torres. We got that, so, in my opinion, it doesn't really matter.
It does when you're slapping a British record fee on the shoulders of a lad who can't bear it
 

ScouseConnor

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Mascot88 said:
Excellent job getting 17m back on this. Good move for Andy too, but I do wonder how long the West Ham fans are going to tolerate the kind of route one approach that he has been bought for.
At some point the Hammers are going to shake Allardyce's hand, thank him for re-establishing them in the PL and look to a more attacking manager. When that happens Andy has a problem.
But it isn't our problem, so never mind.
The lessons from the painful episode have been learnt by the club it seems. Carroll was a panic signing pure and simple, and for that the owners must take must if the blame. There is no logic to spending 35m on an injured youngster with six months top flight football under his belt, beyond "we're terrified of looking like we're selling owners".
Maybe the were in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation, but I would have preferred to limp on to the end of that season with Kuyt and N'Gog upfront and then spent the money propey in the summer.
According to the KUMB forum they all seem delighted at the move, during his loan spell at West Ham he certainly won over the majority of West Ham fans and after coming back from injury he played boss looked like a different player. The attacking partnership he has with Nolan is great to see and they have both played well with each other.
 

rupzzz

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Mascot88 said:
It does when you're slapping a British record fee on the shoulders of a lad who can't bear it
This is true, but if he wasn't up for the responsinbility he didn't need to sign the contract.

Personally I feel the fee wasn't the issue for him. He didn't get the service he needed.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Mascot88 said:
Excellent job getting 17m back on this. Good move for Andy too, but I do wonder how long the West Ham fans are going to tolerate the kind of route one approach that he has been bought for.

At some point the Hammers are going to shake Allardyce's hand, thank him for re-establishing them in the PL and look to a more attacking manager. When that happens Andy has a problem.

But it isn't our problem, so never mind.

The lessons from the painful episode have been learnt by the club it seems. Carroll was a panic signing pure and simple, and for that the owners must take must if the blame. There is no logic to spending 35m on an injured youngster with six months top flight football under his belt, beyond "we're terrified of looking like we're selling owners".

Maybe the were in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation, but I would have preferred to limp on to the end of that season with Kuyt and N'Gog upfront and then spent the money propey in the summer.
We had also just bought Suarez, mind you.
 

Mascot88

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rupzzz said:
This is true, but if he wasn't up for the responsinbility he didn't need to sign the contract.

Personally I feel the fee wasn't the issue for him. He didn't get the service he needed.
He was pretty much forced out of Newcastle - he didn't want to leave.
 



Drian

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Reds complete Andy Carroll sale
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/reds-complete-andy-carroll-sale

Liverpool Football Club have confirmed that Andy Carroll has completed a permanent transfer to West Ham United.

The striker spent the duration of the 2012-13 campaign on loan with the Hammers, scoring seven goals in 24 appearances.
Carroll joined Liverpool from Newcastle United on transfer deadline day in January 2011.
In total, he played 58 games for the Reds and scored 11 times.
Everybody at Liverpool FC would like to wish Andy all the best for the future.
 
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