Anfield Atmosphere Discussion

[Dublin_Kopite]

There seemed to be some comments on here after the match about disappointing atmosphere during the game etc. I have some thoughts on it but I think it's worth a discussion. Here is an opinion from @TheFamousKop on twitter which is probably shared by alot of locals:

TheFamousKopites ‏@TheFamousKop 42m42 minutes ago
My tweets may seem a bit controversial at times but were sitting back in silence letting them destroy The Kop. Let them know were fed up now

• Have you gone to games? Do you agree?
• What can be done to improve the experience?

 

[Dortmund fan]

Maybe the ticket prices are too high?
Or just the atmosphere is not the same like 1970, when not all people had tv, radio and when there was no internet, so people did celebrate games in the stadium like a big party, something special.

 

[Maria]

@Dublin_Kopite,
I think if fans who are new to Anfield atmosphere and especially those sitting in the kop for the first time may need to advised by the regulars this is the way we do things at Anfield , so come along and join us. I was told, when we sat at the Anfield Road end, when the Kopites sang certain songs and chants, we would followed the kop with the same songs.

To be honest, at times, we were abit boring, almost Arsenal esque that was like being in a library, but hopefully the atmosphere will return, now that a lack lustre atmosphere has been noticed.

Yes, @Dortmund fan , ticket prices are too high here, it is so ridiculous and i hate it , it used to cost be roughly £120-130 (€166) a round trip to LFC back to London 3 years ago, including train fare and game ticket, that was for a category B match like Sunderland.

If you were going to category A match like against Chelsea or Man United, the ticket was more expensive. It was impossible for me to go every week and you have to have attended at least a set number of home games before you were able to apply for tickets for away marches, as a member of LFC.

 

[Maria]

BTW, once we get the new stand next season, I think we are going to have a magnificent atmosphere, more people, more excitement and hopefully by that time, Klopp would be well under way in getting the house in order, I am sure.

 

[[email protected]]

There's a general sterility about the English stadia and not just Anfield that I can't quite put my finger on, admittedly from afar. Its possibly the consumer culture that's taken hold although the clubs treat fans like consumers so maybe that's to be expected? I don't know, it seems more 'entertain me and I'll liven it up in return' than 'Fuck it, I'm gonna sing my heart out no matter what'.

Look, I don't go to games (other side of the world here) but I've been to some games in different parts of the world on my travels and tbh I found the English stadia (incl Anfield :unhappy quite poor in comparison (admittedly just 3 games seen in England). In Argentina for example I went with a friend to a Racing Club game. Fuck me, never been so scared in my life but I wouldn't have changed it for a Damn thing. The place bounced and sang and generally caused a riot the entire game. Racing lost 0 - 2...
Football itself was not important, supporting the club was.

I don't think there is any one solution to it, its probably going to have to be a concerted effort on the part of the Club and fans together on a local level. After all, local people will provide the majority of matchday so a tiered pricing scheme that doesn't price out the local, vibrant support will help somewhat together with safe standing, even if only on the Kop

 

[cardiffpete]

I used to go to Boracay (Philippines) or Yangshuo (China) (just 2 small examples) ...long before the tourist masses descended on these places (which are paradises).

Was it better back then and back when? Yes (or maybe no too). For sure, no crowds and no outsiders and only the "in-crowd" who maybe even knew about these places.

But that also meant no roads, no electricity, no air-co, no diversity of food, tough travelling to get there, bad accommodation and just roughing it, having to do it all by yourself etc. I have no right to "claim" these places for myself, just because I got there years before mass-tourism was invented, no right to think that these places should forever remain in the way I remember them, before they got "spoiled". Did they even get spoiled? For sure now and it's just so easy and wall-to-wall food, paved roads, ease of access, no sweating-alive if the fan failed, no getting bitten-alive by the mosquito's if then sleeping outside -just convenience (which also means much higher prices too) in quality hotels instead, food everywhere, so many things to do and see as well.

I don't feel entitled just because I used to go to Yangshuo, when everything was still very raw and new and unfamiliar and you really had to make an effort to get there. It was paradise back then and it's still paradise now. Only difference is it was paradise "alone" way back when and now you share it with tens of thousands of others. But you also get the conveniences too, that you maybe craved way back when. So, you lose in one way and maybe gain in another.

Do I long for a time when the water would just cut-out at any moment, or an electric black-out or hours of back-breaking bus rides just to get there? Hell no. But, I did love the very romantic "happy-ending" of being basically being alone in a place of unsurpassed natural beauty. Now instead I love how easy it is to both get to these places and to also enjoy these places fully (accommodation, food and many experiences) and their sheer accessibility ...but I seriously dislike sharing that experience with many thousands of others, of the package tourist variety.

I don't know ...but at some point you probably have (or will have had) the perfect mix of the bare-bones stuff mixed with some more convenience. Before that or after that very small time-frame (and it's usually very, very short) , it maybe goes the wrong way for you. Either too primitive or else too commercial.

That special atmosphere at Anfield was just unique ....but it just came about naturally and it was always very raw and immediate and it even lasted for a shortish time-frame too. Yes, it got re-created for a while mid-00's in a very different way and a more controlled way too (and very orchestrated by then) , but the real rawness and Scouse spontaneousness was long gone by then too. It felt like a tribute to the past (long gone and even then). It was far more a ritual than something that just happened. Now it's even more diluted, yet again. But that's just what happens. It always happens, whenever you commercialize an "experience".

That's just what it is though. I'm just glad that I felt the KOP in full-voice in all of it's primitive and primeval (and heaving) force, but that KOP hasn't been there for more than 2 decades now. The watered-down version was still pretty good though, but even that is showing the effects of 2 decades of pricing your core support (local and working-class) out of the game to the benefits of a more touristy crowd. It is what it is nowadays ...but there are still far worse places out there ;-)

 

[Maria]

I agree @[email protected] , there is something lacking at English stadia. I have been to the Emirates, it was hard to be motivated there, Loftus road was a bit better and Craven cottage was rather polite clapping, more like watching Wimbledon. The only place where I felt there was a truly energetic, noisy, cultish, electric and surreal atmosphere where I felt I was attending a proper football match was Parkhead, where the Celtic fans were absolutely amazing to the point of fanatical, they were so focused on the match and full of passion and soul. I was so astonished and looked around the whole stadium, young, old, middle aged shoulder to shoulder. Even, if you went as a neutral fan, you thoroughly enjoyed the match and the atmosphere. Some Celtic fans came up to me and said, ' we hoped you liked atmosphere'. I said, ' I never felt anything like it'. Anfield. I am afraid, there seems to be something lacking as if we are lacking in some vitamin deficiency and are zapped of energy.

Something needs to be done in reviving the atmosphere at Anfield again to what it was. I like your idea @[email protected] about the club and fan groups getting together and having a meeting to re-energise the place again and get the locals involved and maybe guide the new day trippers of the etiquette, or something to that effect.

 

[dazzy b]

Pity the old days of the fan "apprentiship" dont exist. My first games with my brother were early 70's in the boys pen, eventually progressing to the top rear right corner of the kop in about 76/77. That way, you knew the rules, the songs and the matchtime ettiquette by the time you "graduated". Now its too sterile due to the way games are marshalled and the influence of live tv. TV now "phases" the crowds sounds to prevent the darker stuff being heard to present a false sound image so to speak.

Biggest pity for me was seeing so called fans leaving the match early, jesus h christ i would never leave early regardless of the result. Shameful tbh.

 

[mattyhurst]

Of the grounds I've been too which is about 15 or 16 (I'm attempting the 92 in my lifetime).

Brentford seemed to be ok, Selhurst Park is good, Swansea is good, Bournemouth was in the entire of era of going bust so the fans were pretty miserable. Cardiff was good in the Premier League though they get fuck all now (which suggests even the fair weather fans can get up for the games).

Man City was dreadful, Spurs was ok, Fulham has a neutral stand (barmy).

Best atmosphere is Palace really then again I've been to a few games and not the isolated ones, sadly we seemed on par with Old Trafford then again the only time I went to the toilet was a Liverpool match while some Anfield games have been crazy and some dead.

It's not really that hard to pick up songs though if they are sung regularly I'm a Palace ticket holder (bucket list idea with a mate) and I know most of them now, I don't sing them all as some would be blaspheming but this idea it's the tourists.

As for leaving early last night not sure really, only really understand when you get to the end of your thether as I said I didn't blame them under Hodgson or during the Stoke game but we are under a new manager and were pressing I would never leave a Liverpool match early personally though I wasn't at that Stoke one.

 

[DEVGRU]

Times have changed. But it's true, a lot of local boys simply can't afford tickets to home or can't afford to travel to away match's because of how expensive it is also to travel to away match's these day's unless someone is willing to drive or charter a bus.

I think ticket prices were about 4-10 quid back in my day...it then rose to 20 quid 10 years later, 30 quid another 10 years later and is now in excess of 40-50 quid for home match;s..am out of touch with ticket prices for away match's for the past 2 years.

I don't think we need to start telling visitors or tourist to put away their camera's..it;s brash and a little bit rough...liverpool is a rough city...and a working class city but we can be civil and sensible in how we talk to visitors who do not understand maybe and how we approach things..

You do meet all kinds of characters at home match's...but 99%^ are decent folk

 

[mattyhurst]

The thing it is possibly up to those fans to sing and encourage, I always take a photo at a match to document, though usually at the beginning just before kick off, only had a moan once which was at Man Utd considering how the same guy then left 10 mins before the end it was a little cheap.

Utter wanker

 

[liver1]

Whilst the fans arent quite like they used to be as they are getting older, the atmosphere also depends on performance.

When we were challenging for the title, or in the semi finals of the champions league, the stadium was rocking.

Our football for the past season hasnt really been much to sing about whilst more recently weve had 1 win in the last 11 games, so its only natural the fans are subdued.

We need wins combined with a good league position, and also good football if we want to get the crowd rocking again.

 

[liver1]

Dont forget when we were going for the title, the fans were lining up 10 deep before the games, just to greet the team bus as it was coming in, and singing songs outside the stadium.

The fans are like a coiled spring, it just needs a catalyst to set it off again.

 

[RedLaw]

The stewards need to ease off on the fans. Last time I went to Anfield I stood up instinctively when we were in on goal with a chance of scoring and one of the stewards told us to sit down. Really mad when you think about it, can't remember that ever happening to me at any other ground. The culture around Premier League stadiums nowadays is you go to the match to be entertained and enjoy an experience rather than actually going to support your team and act a bit nuts in the process.

Would imagine the clamour for safe-standing is going to get more intense from most match going fans if grounds continue to get quieter.

 

[Gegen Pretzel]

May not be a popular opinion, but local matchgoers have really got to stop blaming those who can only make it every now and then. They may have replaced some locals who would have gone in the past because they're willing to pay more, but it's not that individual's fault, and it's not the fault of the guy taking out his phone for 20 seconds. As noted above, the corporate-consumer model is killing the atmosphere and the locals have been unable or unwilling to change it. I'm sure plenty of disaffected locals have stopped going altogether because of the culture change, but that's on them because they've contributed to the loss in atmosphere. It's bigger than any subset of supporters and locals vs. OOTers. I don't know how you change it given the enormous amount of money in the game, but people who can go every week need to take SOME responsibility for changing it as best they can. They're the best situated and have the most ready and regular access to Anfield, the hierarchy and the people within the club making more rules to stifle atmosphere. Tapping a fellow supporter on the shoulder because he's not singing for 30 seconds to take a photo of something he paid dearly to attend is not the answer and it's not a strategy. It's just scapegoating. It may seem like it addresses the problem, but it's really just the most futile gesture directed toward a person who has as little power and opportunity to make significant change as any one supporter.

There are 3 options as I see them, 1) locals have to take back their club, properly, not just find easy foreign targets to antagonize even if only gently; 2) rage against the capitalist machine that has turned football into this and fail to accomplish anything of consequence; 3) or accept that most of these issues are beyond the individual influence of most supporters and are much more tied to changes in culture and world economics that have commodified most of the things we love and come up with a new way to be as influential in your support.

I don't have the strategy to implement for 1 or 3, but 2 is obviously pointless. General boycotts over ticket prices may be necessary in the short-term even if it hurts the team's performances. Ending the relentless cycle of demand for new, high-priced players would also potentially have some impact on the club's priorities. There's no easy solution here, but I think the least effective method is to factionalize support and blame "day-trippers". If you're complaining about ticket prices as a local or someone in the region, imagine how someone flying in to see one (potentially lifeless) performance feels about what they've had to forego to attend a match. People from Asia and the Americas are generally no better situated financially than anyone in the UK to pay outrageous prices for a 2-hour match. No group of supporters is coming away from the experience feeling particularly positive about how much it cost him or her. We all dream of attending matches and watching the team succeed no matter where we are. Locals can lead by example but I think petty corrections about proper behavior just look like that: petty. Begin a general organized campaign that supporters from around the world can see and begin to support. Wherever we are, we can all tell that the atmosphere is not as what the team requires to believe in itself and feel motivated rather than fearful in their play. Lead the way and most of the rest of us will do what we can to support it from afar. You'll get people locally ignoring it and people internationally ignoring it, but you'll get numbers from both demographics large enough to make FSG and maybe even the FA to take note.

And yes, I'm aware of the Spirit of Shankly campaign but that seems to have run aground on its own self-importance and infighting, after its fairly impressive success with getting H&G out of the club.

 

[hugo the horrible]

Haven't been for a while, the other side of the world sometimes,but I think that all seating has probably had a lot to do with changing the atmosphere a bit,but also have the the ticket prices.Really wonder how many locals can afford to go to most,if not all home games.
.Given that safe standing has been shown to be effective(and safe),maybe this would help.
I know that in the Kop prior to all seating being introduced it was difficult not to get swept up in the game.
I remember standing next to a couple of Canadians years ago at their first game,they were like locals 20 mins in.
How long before we hear "Oh jolly nice ball that" etc.

 

[Dublin_Kopite]

Just to say that the other night the kop stayed standing for the whole game and weren't asked to sit down once. So I'm not convinced of the argument that standing alone will improve things.

I'm hoping this doesn't just turn into a wools v locals thread. I'm hoping to make a list of things a tourist should do at anfield as well as a list of ideas that could improve things so start firing reasonable suggestions at me.

 

[Iluvatar]

The key is getting the young lads in, I've been a couple of away days and the lads who go there are brilliant.. A proper "ultras" style atmosphere without the threat of violence.. Long ago the used to have a boys pen, I've know fellas who went through that rite of passage and it was what forged the famous kopites.

Unfortunately until the club and the League itself starts to bring ticket prices down nothing will change. We should be an innovator, leading the way in using some of the massive money from TV rights to subsidise tickets for U21s and bringing the next generation of Kopites through. We won't as our primary focus is the bottom line, it's one of the only negative aspects of our current owners. Soon TV money will dwarf match day income, the German clubs do it right, we get it so so wrong. Selling our famous atmosphere, a vicious circle which means the very thing you are selling is being destroyed by the act of selling.

 

[Kanonkop]

I suspect that unless and until performances improve a lot (and consistently so) on the pitch then any other measures will be futile. Get that right first, then the atmosphere will build and so will the noise etc. as there is something to sign about then. Then you can look at implementing other measures that further improve the atmosphere. Such as:

• More passionate young fans on the Kop - that will help - they typically create the most noise
  
• Not have huge blocks effectively full of day trippers / hospitality tickets elsewhere - that will also help. Better if they are interspersed among regular match goers so you don't get silent sections at the ground

 

[Maria]

Just to say that the other night the kop stayed standing for the whole game and weren't asked to sit down once. So I'm not convinced of the argument that standing alone will improve things.

I'm hoping this doesn't just turn into a wools v locals thread. I'm hoping to make a list of things a tourist should do at anfield as well as a list of ideas that could improve things so start firing reasonable suggestions at me.

Brilliant idea DK, just wondering. One thing I always made sure of, I went to the loo well before the start of the matchlol. I never liked leaving my seat during the half time break. It such a nice time to soak in the atmosphere and relax abit. Do you think it is much better having a standing section which improves the atmosphere? Just worried from a safety aspect. I think they have certain standing sections in European leagues. I would love the Kopites to lead the way again and get everyone in the rest of the stadium to follow suit in the chants and singing.
Definitely bring in more youngsters and maybe the veteran match goers encouraging the first timers to buoy up the atmosphere, sometimes they are shy to make a noise if nobody is doing it.

 

[RedForever2014]

The club should rebuild the Anfield Road end and make tickets exclusively available to younger local lads.

This would generate noise at the opposite end to the kop, which is still the main source of noise despite its issues as others have outlined, it would offset the away support, and it would get back to when I started going and the Annie Road end was the barmy section of the stadium. It would be a good fan centric thing to do after rebuilding and corporatising the main stand.

Obviously we don't want the trouble we had back then, just the atmosphere.

 

[The Elusive 19th]

Who is there still left to sing about... Gerrard, Torres, Suarez, Dalglish, rush, every single hero is gone. Are you gonna sing about Lallana? Are you gonna sing about lovren? The team needs its hero's back.
And when are you gonna sing? The team hardly scores. The team hardly wins. You need those great/insane moments back when your team is gonna do something exciting score/tackle/cross/pass/press/whatever.
The fans simply needs to be made exited by the team / by their hero's / by the moments.

 

[Iluvatar]

Who is there still left to sing about... Gerrard, Torres, Suarez, Dalglish, rush, every single hero is gone. Are you gonna sing about Lallana? Are you gonna sing about lovren? The team needs its hero's back.
And when are you gonna sing? The team hardly scores. The team hardly wins. You need those great/insane moments back when your team is gonna do something exciting score/tackle/cross/pass/press/whatever.
The fans simply needs to be made exited by the team / by their hero's / by the moments.

Sorry but that's bullshit, the crowd should be the 12th man without invitation.. Go listen to the Palace supporters who are getting battered 4-0 away, they sing and chant all game long. For them it's about the family, the experience the result is an added bonus compared to the enjoyment of following your team come rain or shine with your mates.

 

[Herb]

I'm not a regular match goer so my opinion is probably worth very little. The games I get to go to are usually cup matches or the EL so naturally the atmosphere is a bit quieter as you get more "wools" and day trippers like myself making the trip. I've only been on the Kop a few times and it's been for absolutely dire games that any set of fans would struggle to get themselves up for.

What I've always noticed is that there always seems to be a lack of younger fans, let's say from the around the ages of 16-25 in the ground, and that to me surely has somewhat of an effect in terms of generating a positive atmosphere. The ground is packed with old fellas who've lived through the good times, and now suffer through the indifferent times and I'd assume struggle to get behind average players and the thought of us coming 6th again. Going the game just isn't a release for these people anymore.

Safe standing for me is an absolute must. A lot of good suggestions in here but what worries me a little is that these aren't exactly fresh ideas, fans have been pushing for numerous things to be changed for years but nout happens.

 

[Maria]

@The Elusive 19th,
Respectfully, I disagree, we support our team, in the pouring rain, hailstones, sleet, snow, hurricanes, 90 mph winds, sunshine, travelling from one end of the country, whether we have to travel overnight by bus or get up at 4:30 am. I never support a club because of a player. Sure, we need to have heroes sometimes but every single player on that pitch needs our support and encouragement, not just a select few stars. We have to help them believe in winning against the odds. Even if we are losing 5-0, I will shout for them to carry on to the bitter end, we as fans have got to push them to their very limit. No player is bigger than the club and a club is nothing without the fans.
We fans play an important role for our club, we have to play our part in the road to positivity and success and help our team and manager in every possible way. Staying silent is not the answer, otherwise what's the point in going to the match.

 

[Billy Biskix]

I haven't been for a couple of years but have just bought a membership again and fully intend to start going to the odd game when I can. I think we need a bigger songbook. I like 'Fields of Anfield Road' as much as anyone but not ten times every game. Specifically we need more player songs but for that you need more heroes and we haven't got anyone that fits the bill right now. The Torres and Suarez songs are some of the best terrace chants ever. It's great hearing Sakho's name being sung, but it's not very imaginative or something the crowd can all join in for more than 10 seconds at a time.

I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from the game on Thursday. I felt the atmosphere peaked too early and it's hard to keep it going when the team is playing so poorly and when there are so few opposition fans, who are all part of the atmosphere too. Success and good football will improve the atmosphere. Nothing wrong with it in the closing games of 13/14 when it looked like we might win the league. If there's any sign of a resurgence under JK I think it will go off big time because it's been a long time since the fans have been as united and positive as we are now.

 

[Barnestormer]

Are these considerations not football wide, rather than LFC specific?Just sounds like postmodernism to me. The death of the real and the birth of simulation.

 

[gasband]

Only been there once and i too do not understand photos during the game, much like photo during a concert. You enjoy the moment not to update your FB or twitter. Its also hard when the stewards are probably instructed to swoop in on unnecessary standing. Was in the kop, suarez did a great dribble, we stood up anticipating something great,attack breaks down, some of us remain standing, holding our heads, thinking whatcould have been, the steward came over and shouted for us to sit down.

And also the queue to get beer during half time is just impossible.

 

[jimmydestiny]

People look at you for trying to start a chant rather than join in. Nobody wants to stand up and start a song for fear of being smirked at by high brow seat fillers who want the supporters around them to do the supporting while they sit and be entertained.

Bottom line don't go to the game and just watch. Participate.

 

[datapolo]

Without:
1.making it attractive and affordable for Liverpool's working class kids; and
2. reintroducing standing

....it's not coming back anytime soon.