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Anfield Atmosphere Discussion

lfc.eddie

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I was in 203, second back row, and it sounded pretty grim to me apart from a few half hearted attempts from 305/306.
Woman in the back row shouting for people to sit down within 2 minutes of kick off, and some bell end jobsworth steward telling the back row to sit down too.
All in all I thought the atmosphere was very subdued.
So it wasn't because of day-trippers not contributing in belting out them songs then? I guess we really need to bring back safe-standing feature to the stadium which could improve the atmosphere....
 

Sound as a Pound

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I think some have said it - but what doesn't help is these companies who have access to thousands of tickets and flog them at ridiculous rates - that is when the "prawn" sandwich brigade start to come in - ok some aren't.
Football has changed over the last 20yrs in terms of how it is viewed - its on TV all the time and to be honest there is far too much of it. Many just see it as few hours to kill - whereas it was a full day - get in the ground early get the atmosphere going etc.
Someone mentioned smartphones - yeah I don't think they help - I cant recall back in the day - loads with polaroid's out!
Generally now though the fans "expect" to be entertained for the money they lay out and who cant blame them - especially when these stars are millionaires - again that is the killer - money has and is ruining the game.
 

zagueiro

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Against B'mouth, Whilst the atmospere sounded shite, I thought the supporters were generous with their applause of bits of good play, by both teams really. Occasionally it's also nice to hear the players, who's influential in organising, who's quiet etc etc.
 

Red Skip

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I hope to make my first visit to see my beloved reds play at anfield in the not-to-distant future. Just hasn't been possible so far even though I have followed Liverpool for many years. Resources has always been needed for other impotant family requirememnts. I may not have been to a match at Anfield but my heart and spirit has been there over the years in every game we play. So hopefully I will get over soon, because I look forward to seeing our passionate Manager in the flesh on the sideline inspiring our lads to give their best and be victorious.
 

MikeOscar

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Two very interesting posts on rawk from the supporters committee on their meeting with Gordon, Ayre, Henry, Werner and Linda with regards to youth from Liverpool being priced out of attending. Well worth the read.

The agenda/problem description presented during the meeting (great read): http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=323671.msg14231636#msg14231636

The minutes of the meeting: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=323671.msg14232535#msg14232535

Even as a 'tourist' I think it's important the club does something to improve this situation. FSG have at least acknowledge the problem, hopefully they will start addressing it sooner rather than later. They themselves mention 2016/2017 as the first possible time they can introduce special rates.
 

Hope in your heart

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Two very interesting posts on rawk from the supporters committee on their meeting with Gordon, Ayre, Henry, Werner and Linda with regards to youth from Liverpool being priced out of attending. Well worth the read.

The agenda/problem description presented during the meeting (great read): http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=323671.msg14231636#msg14231636

The minutes of the meeting: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=323671.msg14232535#msg14232535

Even as a 'tourist' I think it's important the club does something to improve this situation. FSG have at least acknowledge the problem, hopefully they will start addressing it sooner rather than later. They themselves mention 2016/2017 as the first possible time they can introduce special rates.
Interesting read indeed, and it's encouraging to see that the owners are at least ready to engage with supporters representatives. But while I can only agree with everything put forward by the problem description of the committee, the minutes show that the owners are looking at other areas. Getting younger people in the stadium seems to be far away for the top of their priorities, although they agree that they'll look at it long-term without fixing it quickly though.

I'm also a bit disappointed to see that at no point, the committee starts a discussion on safe standing, which could be a potential answer to the problem. And they haven't any other solution bar asking the owners to relinquish a part of the profits the club is making. I'd have liked a less conservative and more pro-active approach from them to be honest, even though their identification of the problems are spot on.
 

MikeOscar

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Interesting read indeed, and it's encouraging to see that the owners are at least ready to engage with supporters representatives. But while I can only agree with everything put forward by the problem description of the committee, the minutes show that the owners are looking at other areas. Getting younger people in the stadium seems to be far away for the top of their priorities, although they agree that they'll look at it long-term without fixing it quickly though.

I'm also a bit disappointed to see that at no point, the committee starts a discussion on safe standing, which could be a potential answer to the problem. And they haven't any other solution bar asking the owners to relinquish a part of the profits the club is making. I'd have liked a less conservative and more pro-active approach from them to be honest, even though their identification of the problems are spot on.
Agreed on the safe standing bit, it would potentially be a good solution. Very complex to implement it though, given the (understandable) emotional resistance to it as well the fact it's currently against the law. It would require the club the fight multiple battles they could do well without, seeing as we're rebuilding the stadium as well as trying to win against economically more powerful clubs. The club can focus it's efforts on only a limited amount of areas. So I understand it's not a direction they choose to pursue, but nevertheless it's a shame.
 

Billy Biskix

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As long as demand outstrips supply then there is little incentive for FSG to do anything about it. It was good of them to attend as a lot of the early promises about increased engagement with supporters groups haven't really materialised, but I am not sure whether atmosphere is as high on their agenda as match day revenue, especially when you've got the likes of Milner and Sturridge wanting £150K a week for kicking a ball about (or in Sturridge's case not even that).

There was one very sobering statistic in the minutes of that meeting and that is that 47% of children in the Anfield area are living in 'poverty'. I have always found the juxtaposition of the incredible wealth of the club with the run-down nature of the surrounding area really awkward, especially when the club has (in the past) contributed to it by buying properties and then letting them stand empty. So far, as the club has got steadily richer, the surrounding area has got progressively poorer and that can't be right. Just as I think it's important we have local lads in the team, you also need strong local support otherwise the club loses its identity. You would hope that the role the club is playing in the Anfield regeneration project might create a stronger bond with the local community, as well as slightly better economic conditions for residents which, in turn, might enable more of them to attend games.
 

DEVGRU

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So it wasn't because of day-trippers not contributing in belting out them songs then? I guess we really need to bring back safe-standing feature to the stadium which could improve the atmosphere....

No, I would not put the blame squarely on day trippers or out of towners...it's just the way it is these day's...a lot of people are just struggling to cope with the ticket prices and some are just selling their season match tickets to third parties these day's...
 

lfc.eddie

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There was one very sobering statistic in the minutes of that meeting and that is that 47% of children in the Anfield area are living in 'poverty'. I have always found the juxtaposition of the incredible wealth of the club with the run-down nature of the surrounding area really awkward, especially when the club has (in the past) contributed to it by buying properties and then letting them stand empty. So far, as the club has got steadily richer, the surrounding area has got progressively poorer and that can't be right. Just as I think it's important we have local lads in the team, you also need strong local support otherwise the club loses its identity. You would hope that the role the club is playing in the Anfield regeneration project might create a stronger bond with the local community, as well as slightly better economic conditions for residents which, in turn, might enable more of them to attend games.
When you have foreign ownership, the detachment will be even more glaring because their interest is not going to be the city and community but the business they have invested. Having said that, Moores time didn't really do much for the surrounding area either and the club is actually run by a local, so he should be able to give ample inputs on how to retain the club's identity and the connection with the community in the city. My only hope and I am not sure if I am going to live to see it is to have certain percentage of the club sets up for supporters ownership. That could be a small step, a starting point.
 

DEVGRU

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Bring back the local support, make the match tickets reasonably priced and you will probably get some of the atmosphere back.

Of course, the team has been doing poorly for a season and a half so don't expect miracles or magical solutions over night.

But confidence in the ownership and management is back and that's a start.

Now, we just need to start winning and falling in love with football all over again.
 

RedSeven

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I would imagine that young fans,local or otherwise,getting into games should help the athmosphere improve.For games which haven't been sold out,maybe the club could reduce prices at the last minute to allow the local younger fans in.
 

ptt

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Maybe it's my mentality that's the problem. I wouldn't take my daughter to Anfield for a gold clock as I have a very simple moral compass about people swearing around her. If I take her into a family friendly venue (most places) then I don't expect anybody to use bad language within her earshot. If they do, I'll politely ask them to refrain ( first time ). So I wouldn't take her to a pub to watch the game as that's an inapropriate environment for her IMHO. Similarly, being in a stadium that's chanting "The ref's a wanker" etc really would be at odds with my values. Some would disagree, fair enough, we all parent in our own way.

Point being that maybe some kids (the future) are kept away because of the nature of the atmosphere.
 

bio

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I think generally the fans perspective/lifestyles have changed.
When I grew up we had nothing, no internet, no car, no money and Liverpool was a deprived city but we were always very proud of lfc and for that Matter efc.lfc improved our lives and we had that fuck you attitude someone commented on the other day. We went to the game to see our team beat the crap out off the opposition and we all sang till we were hoarse. Then we went home to mum who was still worrying about the gas bill.
Today it's different,
We are wealthier, the city has improved massively, we can book holidays and drive nice cars and its all good but the flip side to this is we have gone from blue collar working class people to white collar working class people and its my belief we have become more reserved. Don't get me wrong we still crave lfc success and when were doing well we can be louder than anyone. (Look at the end of 2014)
When we're doing well we get up for it unfortunately when we're not doing so well we sit there thinking about the pie at half time.
How do we fix it?
Success on the field and a team of carraghers.
 

Kanonkop

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Maybe it's my mentality that's the problem. I wouldn't take my daughter to Anfield for a gold clock as I have a very simple moral compass about people swearing around her. If I take her into a family friendly venue (most places) then I don't expect anybody to use bad language within her earshot. If they do, I'll politely ask them to refrain ( first time ). So I wouldn't take her to a pub to watch the game as that's an inapropriate environment for her IMHO. Similarly, being in a stadium that's chanting "The ref's a wanker" etc really would be at odds with my values. Some would disagree, fair enough, we all parent in our own way.

Point being that maybe some kids (the future) are kept away because of the nature of the atmosphere.
The family section in the Annie Rd is OK for bad language. Can't recall hearing any swearing in close proximity the few times i have been there. Assuming they are interested in Liverpool / football then I think the positive experience they take form the whole match day far outweighs the potential exposure to bad language, (I agree with you by the way, that you want to minimise this whenever possible).
 

Quagmire81

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Seems to me the normal football fan culture in England been undermined too much. It simply died out :-(
It still thrives in rest of the football world, and we all know why. Standing. Even in stadiums with full seating, people still stand up behind the goal and rock on full 90 min.

We have to allow this in the Kop, and something is seriously wrong if people are yelling at each other to sit down and basically shut up.

Allow standing in the Kop and the Fan cultire will thrive again by itself. The seniors will move to the other sands naturally because they don't like noise, and the youth will gather at Kop and bring back that energy we all miss so much. That's pretty much how is works in rest of the football world.
 

zagueiro

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Maybe it's my mentality that's the problem. I wouldn't take my daughter to Anfield for a gold clock as I have a very simple moral compass about people swearing around her. If I take her into a family friendly venue (most places) then I don't expect anybody to use bad language within her earshot. If they do, I'll politely ask them to refrain ( first time ). So I wouldn't take her to a pub to watch the game as that's an inapropriate environment for her IMHO. Similarly, being in a stadium that's chanting "The ref's a wanker" etc really would be at odds with my values. Some would disagree, fair enough, we all parent in our own way.

Point being that maybe some kids (the future) are kept away because of the nature of the atmosphere.
Sorry mate but I can't agree with this at all. Despite your idealist hopes for your daughter rest assured she'll be hearing all sorts of language in the school playground - certainly equal to anything she'll here at Anfield. You might be in denial about it, but that's the harsh reality of life. Further, it's not about her hearing swearing, it's about knowing that it's inappropriate for HER to use it, no matter what she hears. I took my daughter to the game since she was 8. We've had some of oour best moments travelling the country supporting the team. Yes she's heard swearing, she even sings the Stevie G song that says "big and f*ckin hard", but she knows to leave the swear word out. If I'm honest most of the time she didn't understand what those around are even saying, but when she did reckonise a swear word she knew to not repeat it. In my opinion you are missing out on massive amounts of great times for no reason, given she'll know all the words anyways - despite what you hope!!!! Take her the game, explain that some people will swear but what she hears in the ground stays in the ground and is never repeated and have some brilliant times!
 

zagueiro

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The family section in the Annie Rd is OK for bad language. Can't recall hearing any swearing in close proximity the few times i have been there. Assuming they are interested in Liverpool / football then I think the positive experience they take form the whole match day far outweighs the potential exposure to bad language, (I agree with you by the way, that you want to minimise this whenever possible).
We only went in the family area once, it's awful because it's above the away fans who swear at our players more than our own fans!!
 

GreenRedGreen

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Seems to me the normal football fan culture in England been undermined too much. It simply died out :-(
It still thrives in rest of the football world, and we all know why. Standing. Even in stadiums with full seating, people still stand up behind the goal and rock on full 90 min.

We have to allow this in the Kop, and something is seriously wrong if people are yelling at each other to sit down and basically shut up.

Allow standing in the Kop and the Fan cultire will thrive again by itself. The seniors will move to the other sands naturally because they don't like noise, and the youth will gather at Kop and bring back that energy we all miss so much. That's pretty much how is works in rest of the football world.
Yeah, for all the talk in English football of pricing, older age of fans, prawn sandwiches, etc., etc., at the end of the day, sitting down is a passive posture. Try getting into a proper rock concert while being forced to sit down, it just doesn't work.
 

zagueiro

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As long as demand outstrips supply then there is little incentive for FSG to do anything about it. It was good of them to attend as a lot of the early promises about increased engagement with supporters groups haven't really materialised, but I am not sure whether atmosphere is as high on their agenda as match day revenue, especially when you've got the likes of Milner and Sturridge wanting £150K a week for kicking a ball about (or in Sturridge's case not even that).

There was one very sobering statistic in the minutes of that meeting and that is that 47% of children in the Anfield area are living in 'poverty'. I have always found the juxtaposition of the incredible wealth of the club with the run-down nature of the surrounding area really awkward, especially when the club has (in the past) contributed to it by buying properties and then letting them stand empty. So far, as the club has got steadily richer, the surrounding area has got progressively poorer and that can't be right. Just as I think it's important we have local lads in the team, you also need strong local support otherwise the club loses its identity. You would hope that the role the club is playing in the Anfield regeneration project might create a stronger bond with the local community, as well as slightly better economic conditions for residents which, in turn, might enable more of them to attend games.
Personally I don't think it is the clubs responsibility to erase poverty in the surrouding areas. The club already bring millions in match day money to the local area if you include jobs for locals, parking revenue, programme sellers, fast food etc etc. Add to this all the work they do with local schools and outreach projects, I think the club does alot for the local area, and had the club moved out of Anfield the area would be MASSIVELY worse than it currently is. The new stadium development will only improve the area further. Liverpool City Council should be improving Anfield, not Liverpool FC.
 

GreenRedGreen

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Sorry mate but I can't agree with this at all. Despite your idealist hopes for your daughter rest assured she'll be hearing all sorts of language in the school playground - certainly equal to anything she'll here at Anfield. You might be in denial about it, but that's the harsh reality of life. Further, it's not about her hearing swearing, it's about knowing that it's inappropriate for HER to use it, no matter what she hears. I took my daughter to the game since she was 8. We've had some of oour best moments travelling the country supporting the team. Yes she's heard swearing, she even sings the Stevie G song that says "big and f*ckin hard", but she knows to leave the swear word out. If I'm honest most of the time she didn't understand what those around are even saying, but when she did reckonise a swear word she knew to not repeat it. In my opinion you are missing out on massive amounts of great times for no reason, given she'll know all the words anyways - despite what you hope!!!! Take her the game, explain that some people will swear but what she hears in the ground stays in the ground and is never repeated and have some brilliant times!
Totally agree, I was very surprised reading that original post.

Also, I don't think it's a good idea to raise kids to be afraid of words.
 

Billy Biskix

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Personally I don't think it is the clubs responsibility to erase poverty in the surrouding areas. The club already bring millions in match day money to the local area if you include jobs for locals, parking revenue, programme sellers, fast food etc etc. Add to this all the work they do with local schools and outreach projects, I think the club does alot for the local area, and had the club moved out of Anfield the area would be MASSIVELY worse than it currently is. The new stadium development will only improve the area further. Liverpool City Council should be improving Anfield, not Liverpool FC.
It's not the club's responsibility to eradicate poverty. I highlighted the role the club had played in running down the surrounding area through its policy of buying properties and then leaving them boarded up and derelict in preparation for the long-delayed expansion. It all pre-dates FSG but it went on for years and it was shameful. Completely agree that the stadium redevelopment will improve the local area, which was kind of my point. For me the fact that it's kickstarted the whole regeneration of the Anfield area is actually the most important benefit of expansion. Nice to have the extra revenue and a better chance of getting matchday tickets, but, fundamentally, I have never liked the idea of millionaire footballers playing for a club owned by billionaires in a stadium surrounded by slums. All that's changing now and not before time.
 

DEVGRU

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Maybe it's my mentality that's the problem. I wouldn't take my daughter to Anfield for a gold clock as I have a very simple moral compass about people swearing around her. If I take her into a family friendly venue (most places) then I don't expect anybody to use bad language within her earshot. If they do, I'll politely ask them to refrain ( first time ). So I wouldn't take her to a pub to watch the game as that's an inapropriate environment for her IMHO. Similarly, being in a stadium that's chanting "The ref's a wanker" etc really would be at odds with my values. Some would disagree, fair enough, we all parent in our own way.

Point being that maybe some kids (the future) are kept away because of the nature of the atmosphere.
No, I totally respect and understand your pov. And I am in agreement totally 100%.
 

DEVGRU

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The family section in the Annie Rd is OK for bad language. Can't recall hearing any swearing in close proximity the few times i have been there. Assuming they are interested in Liverpool / football then I think the positive experience they take form the whole match day far outweighs the potential exposure to bad language, (I agree with you by the way, that you want to minimise this whenever possible).

No, not really..it is generally as bad esp. during derby match;'s or match's vs the Mancs...
 

mattyhurst

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I realised something on Saturday at Palace which I had not previously.

For the Man Utd game a hell of a lot of people around me were not the usual season ticket goers. Probably around the 10 people in close proximity only 4 were regulars. Now I hadn't seen this against Man City and I took Arsenal to be due to the fact it was the first day. Then I realised the usual fans had decided to sell their tickets at probably inflated prices to people such as the woman who recorded the match on her IPad. Being 0-0 I didn't see there reactions but I bet they were United fans.

Interesting point to note and knowing how difficult Anfield is to get tickets for it wouldn't surprise me, consider this I bet some regulars could get half the cost of their season ticket back with one sale.

Wouldn't surprise me if I see something similar against Liverpool and Chelsea (Considering how many I see at Wimbledon making the connection up the district line).
 

Quagmire81

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I would be surprised if any season ticket goers sell it their tickets from now on. Under Rodgers though.
 

RedSeven

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I would be surprised if any season ticket goers sell it their tickets from now on. Under Rodgers though.
i'm fairly sure some of them will continue to sell on the lesser games in order to make a few quid.
 

ptt

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Sorry mate but I can't agree with this at all. Despite your idealist hopes for your daughter rest assured she'll be hearing all sorts of language in the school playground - certainly equal to anything she'll here at Anfield. You might be in denial about it, but that's the harsh reality of life. Further, it's not about her hearing swearing, it's about knowing that it's inappropriate for HER to use it, no matter what she hears. I took my daughter to the game since she was 8. We've had some of oour best moments travelling the country supporting the team. Yes she's heard swearing, she even sings the Stevie G song that says "big and f*ckin hard", but she knows to leave the swear word out. If I'm honest most of the time she didn't understand what those around are even saying, but when she did reckonise a swear word she knew to not repeat it. In my opinion you are missing out on massive amounts of great times for no reason, given she'll know all the words anyways - despite what you hope!!!! Take her the game, explain that some people will swear but what she hears in the ground stays in the ground and is never repeated and have some brilliant times!
Wrong I'm afraid, last week we were watching Frasier and she asked what Crap meant. Not all schools and children are full of obscenities. And yes it IS about her hearing swearing. Swearing is offensive, that's the point. My parents taught me never to use bad language (my dad later said it's normally OK but never infront of kids and ladies). So if somebody uses the harsher words infront of my wife or daughter, I'll ask them politely to refrain and I won't take either of them into an environment where cunt twat and wanker are prevalent.

It's a big bad world out there, why the hell expose kids to it until you have no choice? Let them be children for as long as they can. As for missing out on great times, she has no interest in football but the stuff we do do together is utterly magical and doesn't involve exposing her to gutter language. Your argument is akin to letting kids watch slasher movies but telling them not to murder people. She won't be playing 18 games aged 8 either unlike some of our friends' kids :(
 

ptt

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Totally agree, I was very surprised reading that original post.

Also, I don't think it's a good idea to raise kids to be afraid of words.
If you met my daughter, you'd hear that she has no fear of words, she has a brilliant vocabulary and use of language. She'll hurl quite excellent insults without need to use the harsher terms. Good on her.
 

zagueiro

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Wrong I'm afraid, last week we were watching Frasier and she asked what Crap meant. Not all schools and children are full of obscenities. And yes it IS about her hearing swearing. Swearing is offensive, that's the point. My parents taught me never to use bad language (my dad later said it's normally OK but never infront of kids and ladies). So if somebody uses the harsher words infront of my wife or daughter, I'll ask them politely to refrain and I won't take either of them into an environment where cunt twat and wanker are prevalent.

It's a big bad world out there, why the hell expose kids to it until you have no choice? Let them be children for as long as they can. As for missing out on great times, she has no interest in football but the stuff we do do together is utterly magical and doesn't involve exposing her to gutter language. Your argument is akin to letting kids watch slasher movies but telling them not to murder people. She won't be playing 18 games aged 8 either unlike some of our friends' kids :unhappy:

So she asked what crap meant? I hope you explained to her. One of the greatest gifts I had as a parent was that my daughter felt safe to ask me anything, and i mean anything. I'd damn rather I explained these words than someone else did.

OK I'll rephrase my original post. My daughter has been the game with me since she was 8, she's mainly been to away games in the Travelling Kop as i prefer the more intense atmosphere than at Anfield. She doesnt swear, she's never sworn, she's never copied any of the words she's heard. She's recently got 8 A*'s at GCSE, and is on course to get A's in all her A levels; Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry. She's a national level acrobat. She's also a loving, respectful, genuinely good human being who cares for people and animals, and works in our local gym helping the little kids learn basic gymnastic moves. She's a role model to hundreds of younger gymnasts. Proof that hearing a few swear words has no negative affect on children if the rest of their life is well balanced, morally correct and loving.

If you think hearing a few swear words is the same as watching slasher movies or playing 18 rating games then you are seriously deluded. And if you actually think that by protecting your child from a few swear words you are helping her, you aren't. Your role as a parent is to prepare your child for the world we live in and give them a framework of security and love in which they know their place in the world and how to deal with it, NOT keep them in a padded room and away from anything that doesn't conform to your idealistic view of the world you *wished* you lived in. You are not doing your daughter any favours here. If she's not interested in football then why mention you wouldn't take her? She obviously doesn't want to go anyway. If she does get interested, take her the game, provide a moral context to what happens and talk to her about why fans swear and I can guarantee no harm will come of it.

Peace and love man :)