• Hey Guest!
    Enjoy the This Is Anfield Forums but want to remove the adverts? Now you can do so by clicking here.
    Thanks for your support!

Ashley Williams (CB) Swansea

Status
Not open for further replies.

The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
4,664
rab said:
I fail to see what combination of attributes and abilities Williams has that makes him the stand out option for us at centre back for that kind of money.
Surely for a manager's favorite, a self confessed red who slags off the red's key player, we can ignore any attribute/ability.

Walking into a open manhole happily with the eyes opened.
 


rippedshorts

TIA Regular
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
2,232
Plenty of discussion within such short period.

My opinion is still the same; if Brendan wants him, I'm gonna support him. If we can look for better and younger players, should be a few available overseas, it would be better. If we get Williams, as rumored, I hope he don't come in and make a fuss of himself.

To be fair, Brendan did overspent with 2 of his ex-players, Joe Allen and Fabio Borini; that said however, I hope he can make things right for the CB position.
 

gr_sounder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
2,489
rippedshorts said:
Plenty of discussion within such short period.

My opinion is still the same; if Brendan wants him, I'm gonna support him. If we can look for better and younger players, should be a few available overseas, it would be better. If we get Williams, as rumored, I hope he don't come in and make a fuss of himself.

To be fair, Brendan did overspent with 2 of his ex-players, Joe Allen and Fabio Borini; that said however, I hope he can make things right for the CB position.
Personally, I think it's way too early to determine if he overpaid for Allen and Borini. Less than a full season, particularly when both have had injuries is not enough time for that.

As for Williams... I think a lot of the crap against him is because of his words towards Luis. Is he a great player? No... but then I don't really think he's the first choice signing either and I doubt he'll ever be part of our squad.
 

SF Red

TIA Regular
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
2,697
gr_sounder said:
As for Williams... I think a lot of the crap against him is because of his words towards Luis. Is he a great player? No... but then I don't really think he's the first choice signing either and I doubt he'll ever be part of our squad.
I am not sure he would be coming here as a backup after starting and being captain of Swansea - especially if we are going to pay anywhere near 12m for him. I think that, if he comes here, he will be seen as first choice - by himself and by the manager.
 

gr_sounder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
2,489
SF Red said:
I am not sure he would be coming here as a backup after starting and being captain of Swansea - especially if we are going to pay anywhere near 12m for him. I think that, if he comes here, he will be seen as first choice - by himself and by the manager.
Sorry, misunderstanding (I wasn't clear)...
When I wrote that I didn't see him being "the first choice signing" I didn't mean that he wouldn't be a starter if we brought him in. I meant that I don't think he's the primary central defender to be brought into the team. I think we have our sights set on others, but that he could be someone we look at closer if others don't come to fruition.
 



AnfieldCat

TIA Squad Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
3,965
I was hoping this story would go away and yet it just seems to be intensifying!
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
13,324
i would assume that he is one of several players on the list of targets.So him being mentioned in the media could be genuine interest in him being at the top of the list, or to let the real targets know that they arent the only ones we want.

We are likely to be losing 3 existing CB's and promoting/signing young CB's as replacements, therefore 1 'experienced' CB coming in could be argued as necessary. The big questions is Williams good enough to fulfill that role, and at the talked about price.

If williams comes in, i see the Ajax youngster and Kelly/sama's promotion as filling in the other spaces.

I dont think individually, he has to be better than Skrtel, its how he fits in alongside those around him. He is familiar with the system we employ and presumably better than skrtel at doing so. Perhaps he is also a good training ground communicator and is capable of passing that knowledge onto the younger players...in much the same way that Rafa had that CB come in and advise Cara and co a few years back.

He will also be coming into a side that is presumably better, man for man than Swansea, so this might improve the quality of his performances.
 

ubermick

Willing to drive Lovren to the airport
Admin
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
11,483
My hope is that we've learned from past mistakes, and are now attempting to link ourselves with players like Williams to serve three purposes:

1 - Maintain our reputation as being absolutely skint, and therefore not get bummed buying British as we have in the past
2 - Deflect attention away from actual transfer targets
3 - Make Spurs immediately swoop in and snaffle the deal

Wishful thinking on my part, alas...
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
13,324
ubermick said:
My hope is that we've learned from past mistakes, and are now attempting to link ourselves with players like Williams to serve three purposes:

1 - Maintain our reputation as being absolutely skint, and therefore not get bummed buying British as we have in the past
2 - Deflect attention away from actual transfer targets
3 - Make Spurs immediately swoop in and snaffle the deal

Wishful thinking on my part, alas...
I was hoping it was just Williams trying to snag a better deal, but he has already signed one so that theory goes out the window.
 

T.C.B

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
7,113
14Mil? Thats about 3 times what hes worth. If we pay anything like this for him then we need heads examined. Imagine giving Swansea almost 30mil for Allen and Williams?
 



No Men in the Box Redux

Keyboard Warrior
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
1,976
T.C.B said:
14Mil? Thats about 3 times what hes worth. If we pay anything like this for him then we need heads examined. Imagine giving Swansea almost 30mil for Allen and Williams?
Oh my, that's truly a depressing thought.
 

lfc.8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,297
gr_sounder said:
Personally, I think it's way too early to determine if he overpaid for Allen and Borini. Less than a full season, particularly when both have had injuries is not enough time for that.

As for Williams... I think a lot of the crap against him is because of his words towards Luis. Is he a great player? No... but then I don't really think he's the first choice signing either and I doubt he'll ever be part of our squad.
No, we certainly did overpay for Allen. The question is, will it be / have been worth it. Likewise for Borini.
 

DEVGRU

Banned for the umpteenth time
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
10,059
SF Red said:
Are people trying to make this as long as the David Silva thread to make sure it doesn't happen?
As pickard would say at a time like this.."make it so!"


AnfieldCat said:
I was hoping this story would go away and yet it just seems to be intensifying!
That's the scary part..and it's not actually bringing a smile..if anything, it's creating a lot of anger because he isn't a top class defender. Regardless of what Brendan thinks.

We is not come to play...quote WARRIOR marketing add.
 

Brock34

TIA Squad Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
1,180
T.C.B said:
14Mil? Thats about 3 times what hes worth. If we pay anything like this for him then we need heads examined. Imagine giving Swansea almost 30mil for Allen and Williams?
Or over 40M for Downing, Henderson, and Adam......Or 75M for Carroll, Downing, Hendo, and Adam. Overpay for mediocre players. That's what we do. January was actually much better, lets hope with the scouting team in place, we've learned from our mistakes.

Now back to Williams. I don't want him, as I don't think his 'upside' is high. If we are going to sell Skrtel and lose Carra, it does make some sense though. Even if not great, Williams has EPL experience and could plug right in on day one.

I think this summer the Club will try to limit disruption as much as possible, so we can attack the season right from the first match.

He's not my first choice, but I could understand it. Hopefully for less than 10M though.
 

MarlboroMan

Vertrauen Sie mir
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
6,065
redfanman said:
i would assume that he is one of several players on the list of targets.So him being mentioned in the media could be genuine interest in him being at the top of the list, or to let the real targets know that they arent the only ones we want.

We are likely to be losing 3 existing CB's and promoting/signing young CB's as replacements, therefore 1 'experienced' CB coming in could be argued as necessary. The big questions is Williams good enough to fulfill that role, and at the talked about price.

If williams comes in, i see the Ajax youngster and Kelly/sama's promotion as filling in the other spaces.

I dont think individually, he has to be better than Skrtel, its how he fits in alongside those around him. He is familiar with the system we employ and presumably better than skrtel at doing so. Perhaps he is also a good training ground communicator and is capable of passing that knowledge onto the younger players...in much the same way that Rafa had that CB come in and advise Cara and co a few years back.

He will also be coming into a side that is presumably better, man for man than Swansea, so this might improve the quality of his performances.
Mauricio Pellegrino was Rafa's former player at Valencia that he bought in to teach our guys to defend set-pieces with zonal marking.
 



The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
4,664
redfanman said:
He is familiar with the system we employ and presumably better than skrtel at doing so. Perhaps he is also a good training ground communicator and is capable of passing that knowledge onto the younger players...in much the same way that Rafa had that CB come in and advise Cara and co a few years back.
As Eddie points out i think it would be best if we get a new defensive coach rather than ashley williams coming in to teach(how ridiculous) Agger,Kelly,wisdom and co about defending in Brenden's favorite system.
 

1dragon

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
2,726
Williams and Allen look good at Swansea because that team has been playing together in the system for more than 2 seasons. Take Allen out of the system, thrust him into a new one and see what happened to his performance levels?

I am pretty sure the same can be said of Williams as time is needed to build the understanding with Agger. So in no way I see this is a reasonable nor sensible transfer. We might as well pick up Diakiate or Douglas on a free transfer if we are looking for a commanding defender in the air. Or retain Coates.

Furthermore, I see no wrong in retaining one of Skrtel or Coates, or even both. Arsenal has Vermaelen sitting on the bench whenever Mertesacker is available to play. Tottenham has a high earner Gallas on the bench, likewise for Terry/Cahill (Chelsea). Newcastle still retains Colocini despite having bought reinforcements in Mirin and co. So why cannot we retain at least one defender who is familiar with our team mates for next season?

If we were to replace him with Williams, isn't it counter productive and a waste of money once again?
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
13,324
1dragon said:
Williams and Allen look good at Swansea because that team has been playing together in the system for more than 2 seasons. Take Allen out of the system, thrust him into a new one and see what happened to his performance levels?

I am pretty sure the same can be said of Williams as time is needed to build the understanding with Agger. So in no way I see this is a reasonable nor sensible transfer. We might as well pick up Diakiate or Douglas on a free transfer if we are looking for a commanding defender in the air. Or retain Coates.

Furthermore, I see no wrong in retaining one of Skrtel or Coates, or even both. Arsenal has Vermaelen sitting on the bench whenever Mertesacker is available to play. Tottenham has a high earner Gallas on the bench, likewise for Terry/Cahill (Chelsea). Newcastle still retains Colocini despite having bought reinforcements in Mirin and co. So why cannot we retain at least one defender who is familiar with our team mates for next season?

If we were to replace him with Williams, isn't it counter productive and a waste of money once again?
Keeping an unhappy Skrtel on the bench wouldnt serve much benefit. He would be there because the manager doesnt trust him, and he is a player who needs confidence. If he doesnt provide what we need now, he isnt going to next season. Better to sell now for a better price than we would land next season and get him off the wage bill and bring in players with the technique and leadership skills we need now. Vermaelen will still feel he is a first choice player only on the bench at the moment due to poor form. His place has not been taken by Mertesacker but the other CB. That would be different to Skrtel who will see himself as a back up player now. Gallas is older, and started as a first team regular this season, i wouldnt be surprised if he also looks to move in the summer, unless he has reached an age where he is willing to accept being on the bench.

coloccini is leaving this summer, and may even have been injured since the transfer window.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,207
redfanman said:
Keeping an unhappy Skrtel on the bench wouldnt serve much benefit.
This is where the problem lies. Skrtel wanted to fight for his place, very clearly stated he wants to. We are convinced that he is not happy, who was convincing the fans? I have to say, if the media convinced us that he isn't happy, why can't we be convinced that his claims about wanting to fight for his place is also true?
 

1dragon

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
2,726
redfanman said:
Keeping an unhappy Skrtel on the bench wouldnt serve much benefit. He would be there because the manager doesnt trust him, and he is a player who needs confidence. If he doesnt provide what we need now, he isnt going to next season. Better to sell now for a better price than we would land next season and get him off the wage bill and bring in players with the technique and leadership skills we need now. Vermaelen will still feel he is a first choice player only on the bench at the moment due to poor form. His place has not been taken by Mertesacker but the other CB. That would be different to Skrtel who will see himself as a back up player now. Gallas is older, and started as a first team regular this season, i wouldnt be surprised if he also looks to move in the summer, unless he has reached an age where he is willing to accept being on the bench.

coloccini is leaving this summer, and may even have been injured since the transfer window.
The same can be said of Skrtel too isn't it? Players go through periods of good and bad form. While I agree that we can get a better defender than Skrtel, Williams is in no way better so I see no reason in what seems like a one-for-one exchange for Williams and Skrtel, except Swansea gets the money to go rebuild their squad properly and buy a much better defender to help them in the long term.

We are effectively helping Swansea to rebuild their team with minimum resources, getting rid of their older players and allowing them to buy younger players who have a higher ceiling and upside.

The question with Skrtel is clearly confidence issues. A couple of seasons ago, he dealt with the likes of Drogba with ease. Just last season, he was scoring from corners and winning aerial duels. So what has happened? If it is just his confidence levels, giving Skrtel the summer off to relax and recharge is definitely better and cheaper than buying Williams.
 



DEVGRU

Banned for the umpteenth time
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
10,059
Brendan's "system" has been less than stellar this season thus far.
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
13,324
1dragon said:
The same can be said of Skrtel too isn't it? Players go through periods of good and bad form. While I agree that we can get a better defender than Skrtel, Williams is in no way better so I see no reason in what seems like a one-for-one exchange for Williams and Skrtel, except Swansea gets the money to go rebuild their squad properly and buy a much better defender to help them in the long term.

We are effectively helping Swansea to rebuild their team with minimum resources, getting rid of their older players and allowing them to buy younger players who have a higher ceiling and upside.

The question with Skrtel is clearly confidence issues. A couple of seasons ago, he dealt with the likes of Drogba with ease. Just last season, he was scoring from corners and winning aerial duels. So what has happened? If it is just his confidence levels, giving Skrtel the summer off to relax and recharge is definitely better and cheaper than buying Williams.
Skrtel has aalready said publically that he thinks the reason he is out the team is not the reason that BR has given him...i think that suggests that Skrtel doesnt believe himself to be part of BR's plans
 

T.C.B

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
7,113
redfanman said:
Skrtel has aalready said publically that he thinks the reason he is out the team is not the reason that BR has given him...i think that suggests that Skrtel doesnt believe himself to be part of BR's plans
If Brendan doesn't rate Skrtel then that's his pejorative. Many posters on here dont rate him that highly either. Managers will always see things their own way and move players in the hope of improving the playing squad. Personally I would keep Skrtel and use him as third choice centre half. Granted the player would have to be happy doing that and it seems he wont be content to do that so will probably be sold on in the summer.
All that being said if we have 15mil for a new centre half this summer and the best we can do is Williams then we are back to overpaying for average players and you really have to wonder about the people running this club. I would rather throw Kelly or Wisdom in with Agger with Diame in front of them and be willing to be we would be better that adding Williams.
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
13,324
T.C.B said:
If Brendan doesn't rate Skrtel then that's his pejorative. Many posters on here dont rate him that highly either. Managers will always see things their own way and move players in the hope of improving the playing squad. Personally I would keep Skrtel and use him as third choice centre half. Granted the player would have to be happy doing that and it seems he wont be content to do that so will probably be sold on in the summer.
All that being said if we have 15mil for a new centre half this summer and the best we can do is Williams then we are back to overpaying for average players and you really have to wonder about the people running this club. I would rather throw Kelly or Wisdom in with Agger with Diame in front of them and be willing to be we would be better that adding Williams.
Under that Scenario, who are you leaving out? Assuming we sign Eriksen or that Armenian guy there doesnt appear to be room for Diame unless you leave out Lucas, and Diame isnt a holding midfielder.
 

T.C.B

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
7,113
redfanman said:
Under that Scenario, who are you leaving out? Assuming we sign Eriksen or that Armenian guy there doesnt appear to be room for Diame unless you leave out Lucas, and Diame isnt a holding midfielder.
Lucas.
 



lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,207
T.C.B said:
But he "singlehandedly" taking on the entire attacking side of Reading. He was left alone to defend them all, the rest of the team pushed up. That mighty Reading forward line, and he did the job... ;-)
 

Digger10

1977 Vintage Red
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
1,029
Apart from his age I can't see what people problem is with this one!

It's all well and good sticking up for Suarez and goin against Williams for his reported comments but that whole thing stink of a media stich up and in the same interview he actually had a lot of complemtary stuff to say about us.

He's a good player and would do a decent job for us. I wouldn't want us to get fleeced for him but would welcome him at anything around the £8m mark.
 

REDSkins

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
1,321
I don't think Williams is as bad of a defender as some of our fanbase make him out to be, but I would consider 8m sterling for him to be a bit of a fleecing.

Williams is quite good against the big target men, he is a strong brute himself and his clearance to the back of RVPs dome is pretty much how he reacts when he's clearing danger. Intense.
He's not particularly great in the air, though, aerial duels are decent but not an improvement on Skrtel. Not sure he'd help us much with defending set pieces and he's probably worse than Skrtel for attacking set pieces.

If he snuck him in here when he bought Allen, I could see it happening, but I wonder if BR can convince the bean counters to buy yet another former player. And one arguably at the peak of his valuation. He's just too expensive as a 3rd choice CB and not an improvement on Skrtel in enough areas to justify that switch.

Much cheaper just to give Skrtel some crystal meth before games.

Edit: maybe mix with the meth with PCP for "REAL ULTIMATE POWER" as bas rutten would say
 



Status
Not open for further replies.