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Asmir Begović (GK) - Stoke

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mattyhurst

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The quote in the telegraph is from that Bosnian news source.

I'd have my doubts about it, and someone did say it was unreliable.
 


rippedshorts

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Hope in your heart said:
Cheers for your previous infos on Begovic, mate. The best would obviously be to see him as nr. 2 behind Pepe for at least a season. Replacing a keeper is always a very complicated task, and I'd be really frightened to see a player as influential as Pepe leave in the same season than Carra. That would be a huge void left in our backline...
If we have both in our team, I think Reina will play back up to Begovic, instead of the other way around.
 

ILLOK

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For me it speaks volumes that the majority of the weight behind the arguments for keeping reina are his distribution and character.He's been fairly average at actually keeping the ball or of the net for a while now which is obviously the most important attribute.

Begovic might not be quite as quick off his line but being aerially proficient is more important and he's a better shot stopper.besides, reina is the wrong side of 30, how long will that last?

Think this would be an upgrade
 

mr mustard

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How does Begovic organise the defense? That's the main worry for me. That our entire defensive game will suffer during a rough transition period (which also includes grinding in 2 or 3 new centerbacks).
 

ChicagoRed

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rippedshorts said:
If we have both in our team, I think Reina will play back up to Begovic, instead of the other way around.
On merit and if Rodgers plays the best players.
 



Speckydodge

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Surprised at some people's low opinion of Begovic he's been the best keeper in the prem a while now and how De Gea got in the team of the year over him I don't know.
 

mattyhurst

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mr mustard said:
How does Begovic organise the defense? That's the main worry for me. That our entire defensive game will suffer during a rough transition period (which also includes grinding in 2 or 3 new centerbacks).
Haven't watched us much this season? It's been pretty dire throughout til recently.
 

mr mustard

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mattyhurst said:
Haven't watched us much this season? It's been pretty dire throughout til recently.
It has been awful, but it can always get worse.

Edit:

We have been looking shaky at the back, but that doesn't mean we have to overhaul the entire defense. Just changing one or two players might be enough.
 

ChicagoRed

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Speckydodge said:
Surprised at some people's low opinion of Begovic he's been the best keeper in the prem a while now and how De Gea got in the team of the year over him I don't know.
Playing for Man U vs playing at Stoke the only reason he wasn't in the team of the year.
 

lougehrig

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ChicagoRed said:
Playing for Man U vs playing at Stoke the only reason he wasn't in the team of the year.
Agreed.

As for Reina, he seems to be indifferent now. He's not as influential as he should be for being a "superstar". I think his mind is on Barca. We've had a better season than last and little of that was because of Reina's match winning abilities. Somebody like Begovic would be very hungry here.
 



ChicagoRed

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lougehrig said:
Agreed.

As for Reina, he seems to be indifferent now. He's not as influential as he should be for being a "superstar". I think his mind is on Barca. We've had a better season than last and little of that was because of Reina's match winning abilities. Somebody like Begovic would be very hungry here.
Not everyday where we can add the best player at a respective positon in the league much less without CL. He would probably be the the first player since Suarez to have CL quality when bought. There were questions about Sturridge and Coutinho, but proven otherewise once arrived. Allen and Borini not yet, forget about CHAD.
 

Speckydodge

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ChicagoRed said:
Playing for Man U vs playing at Stoke the only reason he wasn't in the team of the year.
Absolutely spot on. Maybe it's just because he plays for stoke that some here don't rate him either. For those that are worried about his distribution , we play it short from the back, all he has to do is play it to a nearby defender or a coming short dm. We would lose out on reinas quick long counter attacks (I've never seen a keeper as accurate as him with those) but we don't use that option much anymore.
 

Prolix

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How is Begovic with his weaker foot? How is his composure on the ball?
 

gasband

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Are we joking here? The number of clean sheets we had this season is totally not anything to do with Reina? We had a damn good defence or the opponents are real sucky then. Look, the number of people who suddenly feels that Reina no longer cuts it and Begovic is actually better than him, surprises and shocks me. I am not into sentiments and I also want the best for the team. But Begovic is better than Reina. Really? And this at the cost of just getting mere 10mil for Reina and spend how much on a player who is younger yes and has been good for Stoke? Sorry I am not saying that Begovic will never be great but I am just really shocked about how badly rated Reina is amongst our fans...maybe I am just blind B)
 

Cortez

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Personally speaking, I think he has been better than Reina for a number of seasons. It's not a sudden thing.
 



i_still_miss_fowler

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According to Sqwaka, they rate the three best keepers in the league as:

1st - Cech
2nd - Begović
3rd - Pepe


(Using some calculation using numerous metrics, and how the individual positively or negatively affected team performance)
http://www.squawka.com/what-is-the-squawka-player-performance-rating



Here are some of the numbers:

Begović vs Pepe

Goals from corners 7 vs 4
Goals from open play 22 vs 18
Goals direct free kicks 3 vs 1
Goals other 13 vs 11

Errors in total 5 vs 6
Errors that lead to goals 4 vs 4

Clearances 23 vs 10
Interceptions 0 vs 1
Tackles 0 vs 1
Take ons 0 vs 2
Headers 7 vs 6

Passing 599 vs 654
Accuracy 53% vs 71%

Penalty success rate 0 from 5 vs 0 from 4

Sucessful claims 100% vs 89%
Punches 16% of time vs 42% of time
Saves 74 vs 42
Clean sheets 12 vs 14


Sqwaka awards


Keeper of the week 0 vs 5
MOM 2 vs 1
Top man in team 8 vs 1
Best defence 14 vs 9
Worst man in team 2 vs 2

*Please keep in mind many of the keepers stats are highly influenced upon the teams defensive performance. But does give some interesting insight.
 

ubermick

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The passing accuracy is the one that gives me pause. I would expect Pepe to be better on distribution, but given that Stoke are a route one team, I'd ASSUME that these stats are so skewed because Begovic is booting out the majority of the time, as opposed to Pepe who generally has a short option on?
 

lougehrig

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gasband said:
Are we joking here? The number of clean sheets we had this season is totally not anything to do with Reina? We had a damn good defence or the opponents are real sucky then. Look, the number of people who suddenly feels that Reina no longer cuts it and Begovic is actually better than him, surprises and shocks me. I am not into sentiments and I also want the best for the team. But Begovic is better than Reina. Really? And this at the cost of just getting mere 10mil for Reina and spend how much on a player who is younger yes and has been good for Stoke? Sorry I am not saying that Begovic will never be great but I am just really shocked about how badly rated Reina is amongst our fans...maybe I am just blind B)
At this time, alot pf people rate Begovic as a better EPL keeper than Reina. Yes it's true. Alot of people rate him just behind De Gea this season.

We're only selling him for 10M. Barca don't need a world class keeper. They need somebody who fits their style and is poised to play with other veterans.
 

lougehrig

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Using those stats remember Reina played only 31 games to Bego's 38.

Begovic had 684 mins per mistake and Reina 465 mins per mistake. All other attributes aside this is important and a reason why Skrtel might be leaving this year too.
 



gasband

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Ok I am convinced. Reina is a really lousy keeper and lets buy Begovic, the next big thing. B)

Sorry i am truly frustrated. I am not against selling Reina, thats beside the point. Its the sudden "Reina is so bad" because Begovic is so good. B)
 

ChicagoRed

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gasband said:
Ok I am convinced. Reina is a really lousy keeper and lets buy Begovic, the next big thing. B)

Sorry i am truly frustrated. I am not against selling Reina, thats beside the point. Its the sudden "Reina is so bad" because Begovic is so good. B)
There is nothing really sudden about any of this. Begovic has been better for a while.
 

lougehrig

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gasband said:
Ok I am convinced. Reina is a really lousy keeper and lets buy Begovic, the next big thing. B)

Sorry i am truly frustrated. I am not against selling Reina, thats beside the point. Its the sudden "Reina is so bad" because Begovic is so good. B)
More good stats about Bego vs. Reina. This is from February early this year before we started to dominate games with our posession.

http://www.eplindex.com/26028/begovic-vorm-reinas-place-stat-comparison.html



Key for me is that Bego had 52 out of 52 high crosses caught and Reina only 13 of 20. Also 300 mins per defensive error vs. 750 for Bego.

It seems like we're always giving up crosses or set piece goals againt the run of play this season. Seems like Bego would dominate in those situations.
 

ChicagoRed

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lougehrig said:
More good stats about Bego vs. Reina. This is from February early this year before we started to dominate games with our posession.

http://www.eplindex.com/26028/begovic-vorm-reinas-place-stat-comparison.html



Key for me is that Bego had 52 out of 52 high crosses caught and Reina only 13 of 20. Also 300 mins per defensive error vs. 750 for Bego.

It seems like we're always giving up crosses or set piece goals againt the run of play this season. Seems like Bego would dominate in those situations.
What's makes that more impressive is the amount of pressure and shots Begovic would face in a normal game compared to a keeper who is on a much better team. You would think more pressure through the game and shots because Stoke are a poor side would mean to more or higher error rate, but it's the opposite in this case.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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Personally I feel its better using the stats for the whole season for errors (as on the prior page) rather than part way through a season (when the team was coming to terms with the new system).

I would also add errors are very subjective. If you go look in the Pepe thread (a few pages back) I actually post the goals which are considered errors. At least 2 (subjectivly 3) were not really errors eg 1 Pepe dived the wrong way when the ball got deflected from a Bale free kick.

Also need to take numbers as a whole. Pepe does not catch the ball very often from crosses. Typically he will punch it away to safety Its a different style of keeping so even though Begovic is better in the air its miss leading to say to say he made 53 claims compared to Pepes 13.
 



REDSkins

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The real question is whether Begovic should be our #1 target, or Zieler or someone else (could just throw a dart at the Bundesliga table and end up with a great keeper). Cuz as much as BR may want Pepe to stay, when you can invest the wage savings into getting your #1 CB target (e.g. Papadopoulos) vs your #2 target (e.g. Alderweireld), it's not an easy choice.

As tough a debate as this can be for the fanbase, imagine being in Pepe Reina's shoes. What an immense decision he has to make. He probably wanted to stay here a few more years and then play one final season back in Spain but with Barcelona calling now...it is not easy. They may never call again. Or so his agent will say...
 

Blitzkrieg

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I'd have no problem with replacing Reina with Begovic.

Sentiment aside - Pepe hasn't been a world class keeper for a couple of seasons. He makes mistakes that he never would have made in 2008/09.

Begovic is on the up, Pepe is on the way down. I'd be taking the deal from Barcelona while the money is on offer.
 

steveee

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I think some talk to much about the keepers feet and distribution way to much... that should be the last thing we are concerned with in keeper attributes imo... everyone acts like Pepe was so great at that too but really wasn't anything special lately in that category.. i mean he is good but not like so great like no other keeper can do what he can type of thing that some act like. but regardless even if pepe is loads better than begovic with the ball at his feet or at distribution ... but begovic is better in the air and shot blocker than Pepe... I take the better shot blocker every time. to many people make to much of a big deal about the keepers distribution
more so than ever since Rodgers likes to play it out from the back. yeah I'm not going to say it don't mean something but of that is to much hype for a keeper. I personally don't give a fuck if the keepers distribution is shitty as long as he is one of the best shot stoppers in the league.

any ways if we got Begovic and Pepe was still here... Pepe would be the backup. Those who said that already are correct about that. imo.. no one would outside of being a liverpool supporter in the league and blinded by Pepe loyalty would ever say Pepe is better than Begovic right now. I'm sure barca supporters will if they get him though of course. :) Only a liverpool supporter would say that for now.. and trust me that is not a bad thing.. I'm just being realistic here. I am often blinded by the same shit. I will say right now if we do get him as a replacement for Pepe... the people acting like that could be a downgrade would be wronger than the people that were acting like Sturridge was not good enough for us.. way wronger.

with that said.. all this talk about him I doubt we get him.. but if Pepe leaves and we do replace him with Begovic I think your being a real drama queen if your going to be pissed about that. seriously... I'm sure they will get over it though after about the first 10 matches of next season
 

mattyhurst

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REDSkins said:
The real question is whether Begovic should be our #1 target, or Zieler or someone else (could just throw a dart at the Bundesliga table and end up with a great keeper). Cuz as much as BR may want Pepe to stay, when you can invest the wage savings into getting your #1 CB target (e.g. Papadopoulos) vs your #2 target (e.g. Alderweireld), it's not an easy choice.

As tough a debate as this can be for the fanbase, imagine being in Pepe Reina's shoes. What an immense decision he has to make. He probably wanted to stay here a few more years and then play one final season back in Spain but with Barcelona calling now...it is not easy. They may never call again. Or so his agent will say...
Rodgers would probably want him to stay too much disruption as I did dismiss before can be a hindrance I'll admit, I have no problem with Begovic I have had the guy in my fantasy team most of the season, should we be looking around, well of course that is the one thing that depressed me most of the CHAD signings they all seemed well very easy, I can see Henderson paying back what he cost but the rest I doubt will ever be worth what we paid for them.
 

Brock34

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1.) I want to keep Pepe. I think stability, especially early in the season will be very important. I also just like the guy and this he represents the Club well.

2.) I think he may see this as his best and last opportunity to go play in Spain for his boyhood Club with some of his buddies to end his career.

3.) If Pepe leaves, I would be VERY happy with Begovic. He's young, but he's not so young that he'll need time to develop. He's already one of the best in the EPL and could step right in. Risk is likely pretty low.

4.) If indications are that Pepe is leaving, I'm glad the scouting team is on it. Begovic would be a very good option.
 



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