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Asmir Begović (GK) - Stoke

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The Elusive 19th

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liverpool_singh said:
How much is he likely to cost?
Pepe should cost Barca the same as Begovic (+ 2/3m) will cost for us.

That is if Braca comes calling and Pepe wants to leave.
 

DanLFC

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Think Begovic will cost us more than Barca pay for Pepe, the same old story happens with every transfer to Barca....they are Barca, the player wants to go, they offer a poultry sum knowing full well the player will push for the move and in the end get the player they want for peanuts.

8-10 mil tops imo
 

WellRedKev

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Begovic is an able replacement if Reina decides to go. if Barcelona choose him over a younger option. It all hinges on Barca's transfer policy for replacing Valdes.

Whats he like with the ball at his feet, i'm sure its an unknown quantity with him being Stoke's No 1.

as far as shot stopping, dealing with crosses goes he's up there with the Leagues best.
 



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EveryGameNoExcuses said:
Think Begovic will cost us more than Barca pay for Pepe, the same old story happens with every transfer to Barca....they are Barca, the player wants to go, they offer a poultry sum knowing full well the player will push for the move and in the end get the player they want for peanuts.

8-10 mil tops imo
Have to disagree a bit, we got good money for mascherano and Arsenal got lethal cash for fabregas and Pique from United also. we can still command a fair price for reina regardless, if we are not weak in negiotations.
 

soberphobia

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WellRedKev said:
Have to disagree a bit, we got good money for mascherano and Arsenal got lethal cash for fabregas and Pique from United also. we can still command a fair price for reina regardless, if we are not weak in negiotations.
I agree in principal although we got arse raped over Mascherano. We sold him for less than we paid for him. He came to us not getting game time at West Ham and left a world class player in his prime. That had more to do with our desperate owners at the time than Barca though.

We don't know if there have been any negotiations or not or whether the whole thing is paper talk. Barca have lots of options to decide from. Barca have known for a long time Valdes is leaving so you would think they will show their hand fairly quickly.
 

gasband

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EveryGameNoExcuses said:
Think Begovic will cost us more than Barca pay for Pepe, the same old story happens with every transfer to Barca....they are Barca, the player wants to go, they offer a poultry sum knowing full well the player will push for the move and in the end get the player they want for peanuts.

8-10 mil tops imo
:shock: :shock: They are going to pay us with chickens!!!

:icon_joker:
 

WellRedKev

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soberphobia said:
I agree in principal although we got arse raped over Mascherano. We sold him for less than we paid for him. He came to us not getting game time at West Ham and left a world class player in his prime. That had more to do with our desperate owners at the time than Barca though.

We don't know if there have been any negotiations or not or whether the whole thing is paper talk. Barca have lots of options to decide from. Barca have known for a long time Valdes is leaving so you would think they will show their hand fairly quickly.
We paid 17m for mascherano and got 30m roughly for him mate.

EDIT: WIKI says 24m euros, i thought it was more. Works out at just slighty more.
 

gasband

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I will still say whether Reina wants to leave or not, 10mil is an insult, not only to us, but also to Reina. While I may not think we will go to 18mil or so, a minimum of 15mil is a must. He is a top class goalkeeper who is just 30 years old, goodness. Although paying more than 10mil for a keeper who is 30 may seem expensive to some, but it has been done before, Peruzzi was transferred from Inter to Lazio for 17.9 mil Euros when he was 30 and I do not see if that could happen 13 years ago, I do not think it could not now, especially that Peruzzi was not considered too as the best in Italy, behind Buffon, considering how important Reina is, and even with the up and coming Spanish keepers, I am almost sure Reina, without any incident will still be 2nd choice for Spain in the coming World Cup.
 



rippedshorts

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gasband said:
Are we joking here? The number of clean sheets we had this season is totally not anything to do with Reina? We had a damn good defence or the opponents are real sucky then. Look, the number of people who suddenly feels that Reina no longer cuts it and Begovic is actually better than him, surprises and shocks me. I am not into sentiments and I also want the best for the team. But Begovic is better than Reina. Really? And this at the cost of just getting mere 10mil for Reina and spend how much on a player who is younger yes and has been good for Stoke? Sorry I am not saying that Begovic will never be great but I am just really shocked about how badly rated Reina is amongst our fans...maybe I am just blind B)
gasband, on 23 May 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:
gasband said:
Ok I am convinced. Reina is a really lousy keeper and lets buy Begovic, the next big thing. B)

Sorry i am truly frustrated. I am not against selling Reina, thats beside the point. Its the sudden "Reina is so bad" because Begovic is so good. B)
It was never sudden my friend; Begovic has been better for a couple of seasons already. As good as Reina has been (decent keeper, but not the best is the world), I think Begovic is better than Reina, and has been for a number of seasons already. I think many of us fans here is often in denial about Reina not being the best keeper in the PL, simply choose to look at the blinding form he had the first 2/3 years for us.

Whether Reina leaves or not, Begovic is an upgrade to Reina. If we missed this chance to sign him, its gonna be our loss, before the likes of Arsenal and Man Utd snapped him up.

With that said however, given our limited budget, I don't think signing a better keeper than Reina should be a priority.
 

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rippedshorts said:
gasband, on 23 May 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

It was never sudden my friend; Begovic has been better for a couple of seasons already. As good as Reina has been (decent keeper, but not the best is the world), I think Begovic is better than Reina, and has been for a number of seasons already. I think many of us fans here is often in denial about Reina not being the best keeper in the PL, simply choose to look at the blinding form he had the first 2/3 years for us.

Whether Reina leaves or not, Begovic is an upgrade to Reina. If we missed this chance to sign him, its gonna be our loss, before the likes of Arsenal and Man Utd snapped him up.

With that said however, given our limited budget, I don't think signing a better keeper than Reina should be a priority.
I think your spot on there. And fans thinking he's worth 18m are having a steffi graff as well. The fee wont be anywhere near that. Between 8-12m is the ball park.
 

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Passing 599 vs 654
Accuracy 53% vs 71%
Key stat I think. While it's true, as ubermick stated, that Pepe is more likely than Begovic to have short options when distributing the ball, we all know how deadly precise he can be on long balls. How many goals have we scored over the past years following up on one of his long kicks right in front of the box? Also, 53% of accuracy is kind of terrible. If he reproduces this with us, we'll be likely to groan in anguish many times, after having been accustomed to Pepe's accuracy during so many years.

Another thing which is probably not covered by any stats, is the fact that Pepe's pace allows him to rush out and clear balls before an opposing striker can get hold of the ball. When Jones, a more classical goalkeeper, played during Pepe's injury, we conceded several goals from situations where a player got the ball right in front of him and could beat him with ease.

To be fair with Brad, he also saved several of these situations on his line, but still, his lack of mobility prevented him from undoing these dangerous actions in the first place, as Pepe would have done.


So, regarding Begovic, I'd be interested to know how he plays without the ball? Where does he stay when the team is attacking? Is he the kind to rush out or to stay on his line? He's a big baby, so he'll surely deal better with crosses than Pepe, but how does he behave on free-kicks or corners landing between the penalty point and the six-yard line for instance? Does he rush out to take it or punch it away, or does he stay on his line like Jones? Bottom-line: is he as mobile as Czech for instance, despite his big height, or rather a slow, powerful keeper with good reflexes like Jones?

Also, how error-prone is he? The stats about direct errors are a bit misleading as ismf said himself, so can he be trusted to not make one blunder in each game? Would be grateful if people having watched him more than me can enlighten and reassure me on these points.
 

Cortez

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It's well easier to pass three yards to Agger than it is fifty yards to Crouch. On average, Begovic is having to kick it almost twice as far as Pepe. That's surely enough to account for the lower stats. In fact, Begovic has to kick it further than any other keeper in the premier league, with the exception of Mignolet. Reina, on the other hand, kicks it shorter than anybody other than Vorm. On that site linked back a page, it ranks Reina as the third best distributor in the league, and Begovic 6th. Considering the type of distribution, I'd say that's quite remarkable.

As for Pace. You just need to watch how quickly he gets up and gets to the ball to prevent rebound goals. Seriously, for a big unit he can shift. He's certainly not shy of coming out and clearing the ball up. It's just that he doesn't really need to that often, because players are sitting deeper. Don't get me wrong, he's never going to be the third centre-back style keeper that Reina has the ability to do. Neither was Seaman, VdS, or Schmeichel, and they'll do for me.

As for errors, I'd say he's significantly less error prone than Reina. When the ball is coming in high or from wide, I'd much sooner have him there. When a player takes a shot, I'd much sooner have him in goal. When there's a 1-on-1, I'd sooner have him in the way of it. Just my personal opinion.
 

No Men in the Box Redux

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Hope in your heart said:
Key stat I think. While it's true, as ubermick stated, that Pepe is more likely than Begovic to have short options when distributing the ball, we all know how deadly precise he can be on long balls. How many goals have we scored over the past years following up on one of his long kicks right in front of the box? Also, 53% of accuracy is kind of terrible. If he reproduces this with us, we'll be likely to groan in anguish many times, after having been accustomed to Pepe's accuracy during so many years.

Another thing which is probably not covered by any stats, is the fact that Pepe's pace allows him to rush out and clear balls before an opposing striker can get hold of the ball. When Jones, a more classical goalkeeper, played during Pepe's injury, we conceded several goals from situations where a player got the ball right in front of him and could beat him with ease.
Obviously I haven't done any actual research but if you're really talking about goals that are directly caused by Pepe's "vision" and pinpoint delivery and not the sort of kicks where the attackers still have plenty to do like get under the ball, flick it onwards towards his teammate, etc, etc. Probably not that many. Might be able to count it with both hands. I want to stress that I'm talking about actual moments of individual vision and delivery that contributes to a goal almost as much as an assist does. Because I'm sure there are many examples of Begovic's kicks that have been headed down by Crouch and led to a goal too but you would hardly call that exceptional delivery. Its almost a basic requirement of a keeper to be able to kick it upfield and in a general area where the forward can get under. If we're really talking about moments of vision and delivery that matter like in the way I'm saying and most people are singling Pepe out for credit, I honestly don't think its a number that is as high as most would suggest. But again, I have no hard numbers here just my own biased memory. I do admit that Pepe has some of the best distribution and vision out there compared to other keepers but I don't think it matters or contributes directly to goals as much as most people suggest.

As regards to Pepe's pace, I've mentioned a few times before that I think that Pepe is a type of keeper that relies on pace and agility more so than size and positioning which is why I feel justified in worrying about his form and consistency as he ages more so than I might with other top keepers. For sure, in the last few seasons, he has lost a bit of the reactions and perhaps a yard when he is coming off his line compared to the keeper we saw in Rafa's day. I don't think anyone would dispute that. Back then, for a few seasons going, people spoke of Pepe as one of the top 3 or 5 keepers in the world, perhaps even the best keeper in the league, but now, his stock is so that most neutrals find it a bit strange that he might be even linked as the next #1 for Barcelona. Perhaps this is also the reason why in the last two years, we've seen Pepe concede so many near-posts goals — goals which he would have saved if he was as quick as he used to be. Other keepers that don't rely on reactions and agility as much as he does or did, would most likely position themselves differently and rely less on their reflexes to make saves. That's why they normally get better with age, and not worse. Though I definitely think Pepe has managed to pick up some form and consistency in the last half of the season, it is a concern of mine whether or not we'll ever see him as quick and agile as he used to be. Like you said, its a big part of his game. But I honestly am not so confident that he will.
 



A True Red From NZ

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How has Reina's distribution been excellent? If anything its been plenty worse than previous seasons.
This season he's given the ball away or put us under pressure too many times for my liking.

Still love the bloke, but I can't see Begovic being considered a lesser 'keeper anymore I'm afraid.
 

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El Toro said:
I'd have no problem with replacing Reina with Begovic.

Sentiment aside - Pepe hasn't been a world class keeper for a couple of seasons. He makes mistakes that he never would have made in 2008/09.

Begovic is on the up, Pepe is on the way down. I'd be taking the deal from Barcelona while the money is on offer.
I'd go further - I would welcome it.

Pepe is one of the reasons our defence is so nervous - every time we concede a set play or corner I just hide my eyes. All the other teams know this is a big weakness because he's useless on crosses.

I'd also be pleased for him if he played for Barcelona - it would be a fine finish to his career.
 



soberphobia

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WellRedKev said:
We paid 17m for mascherano and got 30m roughly for him mate.

EDIT: WIKI says 24m euros, i thought it was more. Works out at just slighty more.
Of course Wiki is reliable???? In any case we got raped. The thing with transfers is it is often about timing as much as anything else. Mascherano is a perfect example. Cash strapped owners a big club wanting an asset and knowing they can get it on the cheap. Perfect timing for them. Begovic looks like perfect timing.

We got Coutinho cheap because of perfect timing. It is just what happens on occasion.

Everyone knows Begovich is good but he is yet a bit unproven. 25 for a keeper who is over 6'5 is still young. If we get him for a decent fee then it is good business.
 

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soberphobia said:
Of course Wiki is reliable???? In any case we got raped. The thing with transfers is it is often about timing as much as anything else. Mascherano is a perfect example. Cash strapped owners a big club wanting an asset and knowing they can get it on the cheap. Perfect timing for them. Begovic looks like perfect timing.

We got Coutinho cheap because of perfect timing. It is just what happens on occasion.

Everyone knows Begovich is good but he is yet a bit unproven. 25 for a keeper who is over 6'5 is still young. If we get him for a decent fee then it is good business.
You dont have to tell me wiki is unreliable. 24m euros (if correct fee) is getting raped for a defensive midfielder? What you think we should have got 40 odd million? People need to get a grip with transfer fees, silly prices yeah but not for goalies, or defensive players.
 

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soberphobia said:
Of course Wiki is reliable???? In any case we got raped. The thing with transfers is it is often about timing as much as anything else. Mascherano is a perfect example. Cash strapped owners a big club wanting an asset and knowing they can get it on the cheap. Perfect timing for them. Begovic looks like perfect timing.

We got Coutinho cheap because of perfect timing. It is just what happens on occasion.

Everyone knows Begovich is good but he is yet a bit unproven. 25 for a keeper who is over 6'5 is still young. If we get him for a decent fee then it is good business.
No denying that we got shafted, but Mascherano deal included add-ons based on Barca winning big medals with him in the side. They won the La Liga and the Cl that year and that should have triggered the nearly £6 million in add-ons that were written into the deal- as I then gathered from relatively reliable news reports.

Of course, we lost a beast of a player.
 

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soberphobia said:
Of course Wiki is reliable???? In any case we got raped. The thing with transfers is it is often about timing as much as anything else. Mascherano is a perfect example. Cash strapped owners a big club wanting an asset and knowing they can get it on the cheap. Perfect timing for them. Begovic looks like perfect timing.

We got Coutinho cheap because of perfect timing. It is just what happens on occasion.

Everyone knows Begovich is good but he is yet a bit unproven. 25 for a keeper who is over 6'5 is still young. If we get him for a decent fee then it is good business.
Last I heard the guy who was in charge of wiki was hiding in a foreign embassy and didn't want to come out. Go figure.
 



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HarryFloyd said:
No denying that we got shafted, but Mascherano deal included add-ons based on Barca winning big medals with him in the side. They won the La Liga and the Cl that year and that should have triggered the nearly £6 million in add-ons that were written into the deal- as I then gathered from relatively reliable news reports.

Of course, we lost a beast of a player.
yeah we lost a beast of a player, but we didnt get raped for the transfer fee like Soberphobia suggests, my opinion anyway.

I defo thought it was closer to 30m so those add ons dont surprise me. Good work digging a bit deeper than me!
 

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@HIYH - mate I agree with you in regards Reina and his distribution, he does have world class distribution indeed, or he used to have it if you will. Might be just me but it feels like he has relaxed in that department for the past 2 seasons. He will still make a pass or start an attack here and there but not as much as he used to. But like I said, that might be just me but I feel it's largely to the type of football we play now, build from the back. I would love him to stay but if Pepe feels it's time for him to go, I will definitely try to look on the bright side if at all possible.

Now, the source! Dodgy to say the least, for all of you who speak south slavic languages here is the "article". They quote "Sport" what ever that is, looked it up at www.sport.ba no trace of that article, but Avaz made it out to be like Begovic stated something on the record when in fact the source they are quoting believes that Begovic set out ultimatum if he was to sign for LFC he want's to do it before preseason.Key part "they believe he made that request", the player himself never said anything in public other than he has games with national team and he wants to stay out of all the transfer talk. He did no interview with Bosnian media what so ever.

Make of it what you will.
 

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Kontra said:
@HIYH - mate I agree with you in regards Reina and his distribution, he does have world class distribution indeed, or he used to have it if you will. Might be just me but it feels like he has relaxed in that department for the past 2 seasons. He will still make a pass or start an attack here and there but not as much as he used to. But like I said, that might be just me but I feel it's largely to the type of football we play now, build from the back. I would love him to stay but if Pepe feels it's time for him to go, I will definitely try to look on the bright side if at all possible.

Now, the source! Dodgy to say the least, for all of you who speak south slavic languages here is the "article". They quote "Sport" what ever that is, looked it up at www.sport.ba no trace of that article, but Avaz made it out to be like Begovic stated something on the record when in fact the source they are quoting believes that Begovic set out ultimatum if he was to sign for LFC he want's to do it before preseason. The player himself never said anything in public other than he has games with national team and he wants to stay out of all the transfer talk.

Make of it what you will.
So the contract has been signed then? 5 year deal?
 

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Kontra said:
@HIYH - mate I agree with you in regards Reina and his distribution, he does have world class distribution indeed, or he used to have it if you will. Might be just me but it feels like he has relaxed in that department for the past 2 seasons. He will still make a pass or start an attack here and there but not as much as he used to. But like I said, that might be just me but I feel it's largely to the type of football we play now, build from the back. I would love him to stay but if Pepe feels it's time for him to go, I will definitely try to look on the bright side if at all possible.

(...)
We had Torres and his pace at the time, and an acribic gaffer, seconded by a world-class goalie coach, who got the best out of his ability to pinge long balls upward, as well as upgrading the rest of his abilities.

After that, we never really had a player able to thrive off these long balls as much as Torres. Luis for instance is a completely different player, who prefers to receive the ball in his feet. But since Sturridge has come in, we have gained much pace and strength again however, and given time and training, Pepe could pinge his balls towards Daniel with as much effect as when he did it with Torres.

I have nothing against building from the back btw. Rafa's team very much built from the back in most cases as well. But there was that element of surprise which was always available, with Torres making great runs and Pepe spotting them in most cases. Sturridge could be Torres' natural successor in that regard imo.

Successful teams are always able to suddenly change the tempo of play, surprising the opposition. In that regard, Pepe is priceless for us.
 

lfc.eddie

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Everyone is going about replacing thr keeper, central defenders and all this is done in one season. That is going to cost us for sure. You don't dismantle the entire backline and goalkeeper in one window. It is suicide.

Rafa replace Henchoz with Carragher but kept Dudek in goal. Moved Dudek off for Reina the following season.

We lost one leader and now going to scalp the other? Perhaps looking for a way to excuse ourselves when results don't come our way with - "we have new line of defence, give them time to bed in"
 



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