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Asmir Begović (GK) - Stoke

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mr mustard said:
About the shot stopping stats.... Does it say from where the shots were taken?

I presume that Stoke are more likely to defend with 11 men. That would mean that a lot of the shots from their oppositions would come from outside of the penalty area.

We, on the other hand, attack with a lot of players and are vulnarable to counter attacks. The shots that Reina have faced might just be harder ones to save.

Is it possible to find some sort of graph of the shots the two keepers have faced?
Here is a compilation of his saves made by a Stoke City fan a few months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2lYkgKoBKo
 


DEVGRU

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This guy is worth 15 million? Okey..let's NOT sell Pepe thank you very much!
 

1dragon

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Hope in your heart said:
One question to all of you who think that Pepe is out of form, not as good as before etc: why are Barca interested in making him their new goalie then, according to you?

Do you think their scouts have tomatoes on their eyes, or do they want to weaken themselves with such an out-of-form goalie??
As rab has stated and I largely agree with him:

1. Reina is similar to Valdes in style and distribution, so a "low risk" signing
2. Former Barcelona youth product, thus easily swayed and can probably obtain at a cut price
3. Lure of possibility of being number one for Spain will be huge draw (Del Bosque is known to favour players playing in Spain, especially the big 2).
4. On par with Valdes (not saying much, considering Valdes' own poor form this season), so definitely not a down-grade.

On to Begovic, I think if Reina really wants to go, we should get a best deal for ourselves and get Begovic. He is definitely an able replacement, ability wise. He just does not get the credit because it is Stoke City that he is playing for. Distribution can be trained, but physical aspects such as height, agility cannot be. It is rare for a big keeper like him to be so agile.

At least, he is better than Vorm (shudders with fear that we end up buying the latter).
 

mattyhurst

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Really not sure what people have against Vorm, replacing Reina well maybe not but I'd be keen on looking further than the Premier League if we do have to replace Reina.
 



MikeOscar

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mattyhurst said:
Really not sure what people have against Vorm, replacing Reina well maybe not but I'd be keen on looking further than the Premier League if we do have to replace Reina.
Personally I've got the same problem with both Vorm and Begovic: Neither are that good and neither belong in a team with more than just mid-table aspirations. Even though I've been critical of Reina this season, I'd much rather keep him than replace him with either of these two.
 

ILLOK

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Begovic is much better than vorm...
 

MikeOscar

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Cortez said:
Begovic isn't that good? I sense you've never seen him.
Seen him often enough, he's not bad but he has never impressed me either. Just because I don't share your opinion doesn't mean I've 'never seen him'.
 

Cortez

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MikeOscar said:
Begovic isn't that good? I sense you've never seen him.


Seen him often enough, he's not bad but he has never impressed me either. Just because I don't share your opinion doesn't mean I've 'never seen him'.
It's nothing to do with agreeing with me, its to do with you saying he's not that good. If somebody said Coutinho isn't that good, my first question would be to ask if they've seen him play. The reason for this is because it's easier for me to believe that you've not seen him than it is to believe you've seen him but think he's not that good. Begovic is a terrific goalkeeper.

You're more than welcome to your opinion. It's just a bit loopy in mine.
 



MarlboroMan

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Cortez said:
It's nothing to do with agreeing with me, its to do with you saying he's not that good. If somebody said Coutinho isn't that good, my first question would be to ask if they've seen him play. The reason for this is because it's easier for me to believe that you've not seen him than it is to believe you've seen him but think he's not that good. Begovic is a terrific goalkeeper.

You're more than welcome to your opinion. It's just a bit loopy in mine.
If such a terrific goalkeeper, your words, than why isn't he at a top club?

BOOM!
 

boston red

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Begovic is better than vorm imo he could also turn out to be top keeper if Reina were to leave which would be up to Barca if they want him nothing else would matter he be gone believe me to much history to go through..Begovic has presence crosses with command..I prefer Reina to stay but hey
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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We have all (besides MOTD highlights) probably watched maybe half a dozen Stoke games this year.

I guess opinions differ simply on what games you watched.
 

Cortez

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Keepers in the final showing what shot stoppers do for a side.
 



TFC

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Reina showed us what a shot stopper can do many times during the 2nd half of this season.
 

Cortez

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TFC said:
Reina showed us what a shot stopper can do many times during the 2nd half of this season.
Shot stopping isn't one of his best attributes, really. I agree, he has improved over the last couple of months (although, not the entire second half of the season, for me). The issue is the previous seasons where he has cost us many goals. His attributes are in sweeping and distribution, IMO.
 

TFC

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Cortez said:
Shot stopping isn't one of his best attributes, really. I agree, he has improved over the last couple of months (although, not the entire second half of the season, for me). The issue is the previous seasons where he has cost us many goals. His attributes are in sweeping and distribution, IMO.
I gotta admit that even early in this season he cost us some goals. That being said, I really do think that he was of the quality we need during the 2nd half of this season. He did a fine job of shot stopping in addition to his other attributes. Maybe not the entire second half of the season, but for the majority of the 2nd half he played great, and he kept us in a lot of games that we coughed up quality opportunities in.
 

Toro

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TFC said:
Reina showed us what a shot stopper can do many times during the 2nd half of this season.
I hope we don't sell him.

30 is like 25 for a keeper.
 

therealkeano1

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MarlboroMan said:
If such a terrific goalkeeper, your words, than why isn't he at a top club?

BOOM!
Cos he has been learning his trade. Any of the top clubs now would love to have him. Maybe not Tottenham as they have lloris and utd have theres but every other team would be interested.
 



No Men in the Box Redux

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MarlboroMan said:
If such a terrific goalkeeper, your words, than why isn't he at a top club?

BOOM!
That might be one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Van Der Sar, one of the best keepers in the world, somehow played for Fulham for four whole seasons in his mid-30s before he went to United. Hardly means he wasn't already a terrific goalkeeper at that time. There are a handful of other examples. Diego Lopez, doing more than enough filling Casillas' boots this last season, played for two mid-table teams for the last six seasons but is now a Real Madrid keeper again.

By your own rationale, any player who is not already at a top club, would not be worth buying. This argument is obviously false.
 

Arminius

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No Men in the Box Redux said:
By your own rationale, any player who is not already at a top club, would not be worth buying. This argument is obviously false.
If we buy him, that means he immediately gets better, right? :cheers:
 

The Elusive 19th

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The reports that we are not even in for him and Pepe is saying goodbyes makes me to come to only one conlusion, we are getting vorm!!! :(

Or we are trying Suarez at GK - where he can't bite often since the players will be far away from him, where he can handle the ball with his hands as much as wants. He can shout abuse and racial slurs - since the referee won't be near him, he won't be able to punish him with a 10 match ban. :cheers:

PS - the transfer season has already made me loose my mind. How the hell am I going to survive till Sep 1? :eek:
 

rippedshorts

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MarlboroMan said:
If such a terrific goalkeeper, your words, than why isn't he at a top club?

BOOM!
You sound like a deluded and bigoted fan... Seriously... What a poor argument...

What if someone says, if Gerrard is such a terrific player, how come he isn't winning the Premier League? Or if Reina is such a terrific player, why isn't he at a top club and lingers in a mid table club like we are now??

BOOM!
 



1dragon

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Regarding why I do not rate Vorm as highly as Reina or Begovic:

I noticed he relies a lot on anticipation to make his saves. Like he will anticipate that player X will shoot towards his left, he commits himself in that direction and if he gets it right, he makes an excellent save. However, against strikers who have more composure, this is where he fails. Strikers tend to delay their shots and notice his movement, so when Vorm commits himself to one side, the striker just shoots in the opposite direction and Vorm is seemingly wrong footed.

Furthermore, Vorm is pretty short for a keeper (1.83m), compared with Reina and Begovic. His reach is pretty limited and leaping ability can only make up for so much, and he will be at a disadvantage come one-on-one with strikers. Penalty saving aside (I wish we do not concede so many penalties in the first place), Vorm does not seem to provide much more than what Reina or Begovic can do, yet lag in other departments.

Back to Begovic, he is more than an able replacement for Reina. But if it were up to me, Reina wouldn't go for at least another one to two seasons to allow our new defence to settle first.
 

The Elusive 19th

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1dragon said:
Regarding why I do not rate Vorm as highly as Reina or Begovic:

I noticed he relies a lot on anticipation to make his saves. Like he will anticipate that player X will shoot towards his left, he commits himself in that direction and if he gets it right, he makes an excellent save. However, against strikers who have more composure, this is where he fails. Strikers tend to delay their shots and notice his movement, so when Vorm commits himself to one side, the striker just shoots in the opposite direction and Vorm is seemingly wrong footed.

Furthermore, Vorm is pretty short for a keeper (1.83m), compared with Reina and Begovic. His reach is pretty limited and leaping ability can only make up for so much, and he will be at a disadvantage come one-on-one with strikers. Penalty saving aside (I wish we do not concede so many penalties in the first place), Vorm does not seem to provide much more than what Reina or Begovic can do, yet lag in other departments.

Back to Begovic, he is more than an able replacement for Reina. But if it were up to me, Reina wouldn't go for at least another one to two seasons to allow our new defence to settle first.
That's the most important thing. But we did revamp our entire offense in 1 window retaining only 1 little Suarez. I know defense is far more complicated but still who know what BR and Barca and Reina are thinking.

Actually i think this situation is a wake-up call for the club. If Reina leaves - we need to replace him and buy another young potential in Jan or next summer window and leave him for a season or 2 at his club for further development or even in a bottom table EPL team.

But if he doesn't, it would be good for us to still buy a potential youth(some one like Ter Stegen), and leave him for a season or 2 at his club for further development or even in a bottom table EPL team. This will allow us to be prepared for the day when Reina is no more on top of the game or wants to leave.

Either way in Jan or in the next summer window we should get ourselves a very good young potential Gk and make sure of his development for another 2 seasons before we can bring him home and compete with our mainstay.
 

No Men in the Box Redux

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1dragon said:
Back to Begovic, he is more than an able replacement for Reina. But if it were up to me, Reina wouldn't go for at least another one to two seasons to allow our new defence to settle first.
I completely agree. It's a risk for sure to replace so many of your backline all at once. But at the same time, we do have to worry about which Pepe we see next season and prepare for the worst. If it's the Pepe of the last 10-15 games of this season then that would be great, but if its the inconsistent Pepe that we've seen far too often in the last few seasons then something obviously needs to be done and bringing in a new keeper this summer will obviously be the difficult judgment call that attempts to bet on the risks and the rewards of these two outcomes.

One problem with simply keeping our GK situation as it is right now, is that Pepe has no one to seriously challenge him for his spot at all. So if Pepe starts underperforming again, we will be in a pretty bad spot having to rely on Jones. I've seen Costel Pantilimon mentioned once or twice in a few threads before and I think if we could get him for a cut-price fee, he would be a pretty shrewd signing as a keeper that could perhaps offer Pepe a serious challenge for his starting berth. This way, Pepe is the de facto starter for another season or two at the beginning of the season and he will be there to offer his presence and leadership to ease new defenders in but if we find that he really isn't capable of performing at the same level as he has in the past, we would have a very decent option and perhaps even a future starter ready to take over. I think I remembered Pantilimon registered something like 4 clean sheets in a row in City's FA Cup run this year or something like that before he was quite brutally shafted by Mancini in the final. It's already been made clear that he wants out, perhaps we could take advantage of this situation and get a shrewd deal out of it.
 

1dragon

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To be fair, few clubs have two quality keepers to challenge for a starting position. For those that do have, ie; Real Madrid, Tottenham, off the top of my head, the "second choice" is normally left disillusioned and will leave the club sooner rather than later. Hence, I believe the role of a second choice keeper is not mainly to challenge the first choice keeper, but more as a back up in case the first choice keeper is unavailable.

Reina has started to show his good form/pedigree of late. How long that will last is unknown. The club can choose to stick with him until he is near retirement, and meanwhile search for a capable replacement, or to replace him now. However, due to the major revamp we will see next season, I rather we stick with him for the time being. If Reina is professional enough, he should not let the on going transfer saga affect him.
 

brush85

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1dragon said:
Back to Begovic, he is more than an able replacement for Reina. But if it were up to me, Reina wouldn't go for at least another one to two seasons to allow our new defence to settle first.
The only issue with that though is that you wont get as much money for Reina 2 years from now, as you would right now. Goalkeepers over 30 dont generate much funds as it is and Pepe is 31 in August.
 



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