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Bobby Duncan - Real Issues or Ill advised ?

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jgw_geneseo

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All seems a bit silly for someone who has barely managed to play at U23 level so far. If he has mental issues, making him the focus of the media and placing him at odds with the club seems like a weird way of handling it.

I don't believe any of it, but a serious conversation needs to be had, then probably never deal with that agent again. The whole asking for a friend what a loan with an obligation means on twitter isn't a great look (and fairly humorous).

While the behavior of the agent in question seems absolutely crazy, the driving force behind it is Duncan. Not sure how I'd approach this one. Mostly I want to keep him at the club for two years until his contract is done, but there needs to be squad harmony and all of that. It's so strange he is unhappy after scoring 30 some goals for the 18s in an all left footed strike partnership with Glatzel. Must have been fun. I can only think he has been spoiled terribly and he has people whispering in his ear how he should have more, more, more, they are disrespecting him, etc., all while looking to get another paycheck and transfer.

Life can be tough when you're a know it all hotshot 18 yr old (I was also a dumb 18 yr old who couldn't be told much, as I expect a lot of you were at 18). However, I never had any particular talent that would allow my petulance to garner international scrutiny. Good luck to the lad, he will need it. These are the important years, and if he pisses it away always thinking the grass is greener over there and never just buckles down and just works hard, life will be tough, no matter how much money you make.
 


Red over the water

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It seems there’s a defamation case that can be made. The agent is an eejit. He’s spouting off like some half-informed bloke down the pub and having been aware of his existence for five minutes, he’s not a credible professional. LFC will eat him for breakfast in court, if the fans don’t do it on Twitter first.

Hopefully Duncan will see sense, ditch the agent, and fulfil his ability as a footballer. I doubt that will be a first team career at Liverpool, but another year or two of trying to get there would do him the world of good, both as a man, and also in furthering his sporting education and prospects.
 

mattyhurst

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Probably a wider issue about the welfare of players and clubs but especially agents. Maybe the FA should assign agents until the age of 18, some players have them at 8 wasn't TAA's agent his parents until very recently.

I doubt there is much in this but it is up to the player to take it to the club and if he feels that isn't being dealt with then he should use the PFA, the club of course should take it seriously but considering the attitude and views of the agent, I feel Duncan has chosen badly and been let down and badly advised. I know Rhian had something similar going on but that was more a desire to get more, he seems to have now settled.

As for matey of a mate over at blue moon that has more holes than swiss cheese.
 

mattyhurst

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In fact in regards to the agent's views, if I was a club I would advise my players distance themselves as much as possible as some of the stuff he has written is disgustingly offensive and as a gay male mate, I wouldn't want to share a bath with you fat misogynistic tosser.
 

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Defamation claims are notoriously difficult to bring but there's no doubt Liverpool's lawyers would be able to bring considerable pressure to bare on Rubie should they wish to put him on notice. The main duty that Rubie's breached is to Duncan. He's manifestly failed to act in his best interests.

Unfortunately, the feeling is that Duncan (/his family) are not blameless here either. I've seen people describe Duncan as being extremely thick (I have no idea) but it's easy to see how he might consider himself to be entitled. He's obviously a good footballer, good enough for people outside of the elite clubs to think he's a world-beater - friends, family members, youth coaches outside of professional clubs etc. He's the cousin of Steven Gerrard ffs. Given the ease with which Rubie resorted to name-checking Gerrard you can imagine Duncan and his family have never been slow to reference that connection. He probably thinks he should be on a similar career trajectory, destined for similar legendary status. He might think he's better than he is or he might think that no clubs are properly recognising his supreme talent (that's in his genes...!) - but yet nobody has offered more than £2m for him. He's had no interest from clubs such as Juventus, Barcelona, Madrid....the only clubs interested are those below LFC and even then neither of them think he's worth more than half a Kevin Stewart. You'd think that might cause some self-reflection, but no.

Perhaps it's this realisation that's now hitting him that's caused any mental health issues. From the age of about 7/8 he's probably grown up thinking he's going to follow in his cousin's footsteps (at that time Gerrard would have been at his peak, CL winner when Duncan was 4, FA Cup winner when he was 5, CL runner-up when he was 6, up until he was 13 he'd have known him as an England captain and the nation's talisman etc). He's probably had all around him saying how brilliant he is and how well he compares with his cousin at a similar age. He's smashed it at school, at local clubs, he's banged in the goals wherever he's been. But fast forward to the present day and to keep pace Duncan would need to make his debut for the first team by Christmas. By now Duncan can see that in terms of his career progression he's suddenly started to fall behind. Being hit by the dawning realisation that this next step is going to be far harder than anything he's had to do so far, the reality that he may not actually have that extra 10% needed to make it at the elite level...I can imagine that could take some time to adjust to...and accept.

I also have a cousin who played PL football. Indeed at a similar age to Duncan he was being spoken of as being the next big thing, England's answer to their left midfield. He was a genuinely elite prospect struck down by injury pretty much before his career had begun. The next Liam Brady, his career never came close to matching those hopes/expectations. I was proud of his achievements and would rarely miss an excuse to reference my connection (we were the same age) - I remember thinking that some people might even think of me as a semi-decent footballer just as a result of my shared DNA. Thankfully, I never had any delusions that I was brilliant (I was not good enough to even be scouted) so the thought of any entitlement (by association) to a particular career trajectory never arose. I never had to adjust to a reality I had not prepared myself for.

I hope Duncan gets some proper support. Not every striker breaking through does so at the age of 18. Not everyone is Shearer, Owen or Rooney. Some are Ian Wright, Didier Drogba, Harry Kane. But not everyone can make it at that level, that's life.
 
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treboeth

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In fact in regards to the agent's views, if I was a club I would advise my players distance themselves as much as possible as some of the stuff he has written is disgustingly offensive and as a gay male mate, I wouldn't want to share a bath with you fat misogynistic tosser.
I would imagine the spider feels the same.
 

macca1970

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Semmy

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Bobby Duncan or Duncan Castles?
 

Red Armada

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Defamation claims are notoriously difficult to bring but there's no doubt Liverpool's lawyers would be able to bring considerable pressure to bare on Rubie should they wish to put him on notice. The main duty that Rubie's breached is to Duncan. He's manifestly failed to act in his best interests.

Unfortunately, the feeling is that Duncan (/his family) are not blameless here either. I've seen people describe Duncan as being extremely thick (I have no idea) but it's easy to see how he might consider himself to be entitled. He's obviously a good footballer, good enough for people outside of the elite clubs to think he's a world-beater - friends, family members, youth coaches outside of professional clubs etc. He's the cousin of Steven Gerrard ffs. Given the ease with which Rubie resorted to name-checking Gerrard you can imagine Duncan and his family have never been slow to reference that connection. He probably thinks he should be on a similar career trajectory, destined for similar legendary status. He might think he's better than he is or he might think that no clubs are properly recognising his supreme talent (that's in his genes...!) - but yet nobody has offered more than £2m for him. He's had no interest from clubs such as Juventus, Barcelona, Madrid....the only clubs interested are those below LFC and even then neither of them think he's worth more than half a Kevin Stewart. You'd think that might cause some self-reflection, but no.

Perhaps it's this realisation that's now hitting him that's caused any mental health issues. From the age of about 7/8 he's probably grown up thinking he's going to follow in his cousin's footsteps (at that time Gerrard would have been at his peak, CL winner when Duncan was 4, FA Cup winner when he was 5, CL runner-up when he was 6, up until he was 13 he'd have known him as an England captain and the nation's talisman etc). He's probably had all around him saying how brilliant he is and how well he compares with his cousin at a similar age. He's smashed it at school, at local clubs, he's banged in the goals wherever he's been. But fast forward to the present day and to keep pace Duncan would need to make his debut for the first team by Christmas. By now Duncan can see that in terms of his career progression he's suddenly started to fall behind. Being hit by the dawning realisation that this next step is going to be far harder than anything he's had to do so far, the reality that he may not actually have that extra 10% needed to make it at the elite level...I can imagine that could take some time to adjust to...and accept.

I also had a cousin who played PL football. Indeed at a similar age to Duncan he was being spoken of as being the next big thing, England's answer to their left midfield. He was a genuinely elite prospect struck down by injury pretty much before his career had begun. The next Liam Brady, his career never came close to matching those hopes/expectations. I was proud of his achievements and would rarely miss an excuse to reference my connection (we were the same age) - I remember thinking that some people might even think of me as a semi-decent footballer just as a result of my shared DNA. Thankfully, I never had any delusions that I was brilliant (I was not good enough to even be scouted) so the thought of any entitlement (by association) to a particular career trajectory never arose. I never had to adjust to a reality I had not prepared myself for.

I hope Duncan gets some proper support. Not every striker breaking through does so at the age of 18. Not everyone is Shearer, Owen or Rooney. Some are Ian Wright, Didier Drogba, Harry Kane. But not everyone can make it at that level, that's life.
This pretty much. Neil Jones also stated that this saga stems from Duncan wanting first-team football and accepting/realising that he won't get it at LFC.

He needs to wake up and see where he's headed with this attitude.
 



nobluff

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So his "pretend agent's" twitter been banned, I assume for racist, homophobic and mental health outbursts. He have Facebook or Instagram?
 

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There's also the element of not just what he himself might feel entitled to but also the pressure that he might feel others expect of him. His immediate family and mates - they all think he's going to be this massive superstar on the level of Gerrard. After all, they share the same DNA, it's his destiny. Having to adjust not only to his own expectations as to where his career might be headed but also to the feeling that he's failing to meet the expectations others have for him, that could prove pretty weighty on a young lads shoulders.

In a way it reminds me of Liam Botham, Ian Botham's son. Liam Botham was a brilliant cricketer. Could almost certainly have played for England. But. But. He was never going to be able to get out of his Dad's shadow. No matter how good he was he was never going to be better than his old man - against whom he would always, always be compared. So after a few games of first class cricket he gave it all up and became a professional rugby player (hate talented cunts like that - Jeff Wilson of New Zealand was the ultimate in that regard, in my lifetime - played cricket and rugby union for the All Blacks. CB Fry and Denis Compton other multi-talented bastards). His professional rugby career was average, probably worse than his cricket career would have been, but he never had to suffer from the weight of expectations brought by inevitable comparisons with his Dad.

Maybe a word with Kasper Schmeichel or Jordi Cruyff might help.
 

scouseheadross

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It demeans the issue of mental health. Bobby's a kid, he probably does need a heck of a lot of emotional support. But any issues are only going to be exacerbated by an agent like this.....
It is a serious subject which is why you should not have made light of it the other day, inferring someone was mentally ill.

You're welcome, it's my contribution to care in the community.


As for Duncan, he was banging the goals in last year and you only do so if settled, so he must have been happy enough. If he'd have kept his head down and done it for the u23s he'd have got the recognition he deserved. Maybe he still will - sans agent - but more likely now to end badly for him. Can't see the club wanting drama, even for a top talent, let alone an u23. It's not Klopp or FSGs style.
 

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It is a serious subject which is why you should not have made light of it the other day, inferring someone was mentally ill.
I wasn't implying Eddie is mentally ill, that must have been your own inference.
 

scouseheadross

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I wasn't implying Eddie is mentally ill, that must have been your own inference.
I certainly didn't understand your 'care in the community' comment. At best it appeared to belittle mental health and disability, which seems hypocritical given your comments here. Perhaps we can leave it there and let the other forumites can make up their own mind?

PS: Ref comment below, everyone knows what Care in the Community refers to. Care in the Community is the British policy of deinstitutionalization, treating and caring for physically and mentally disabled people in their homes rather than in an institution.
 
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Kopstar

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I certainly didn't understand your 'care in the community' comment. At best it appeared to belittle mental health, which seems hypocritical given your comments here. Perhaps we can leave it there and let the other forumites can make up their own mind?
Sure, but for the record if that is the inference drawn I apologise. I was implying that Eddie was being thick, not that he was mentally ill.
 

FGred

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Defamation claims are notoriously difficult to bring but there's no doubt Liverpool's lawyers would be able to bring considerable pressure to bare on Rubie should they wish to put him on notice. The main duty that Rubie's breached is to Duncan. He's manifestly failed to act in his best interests.

Unfortunately, the feeling is that Duncan (/his family) are not blameless here either. I've seen people describe Duncan as being extremely thick (I have no idea) but it's easy to see how he might consider himself to be entitled. He's obviously a good footballer, good enough for people outside of the elite clubs to think he's a world-beater - friends, family members, youth coaches outside of professional clubs etc. He's the cousin of Steven Gerrard ffs. Given the ease with which Rubie resorted to name-checking Gerrard you can imagine Duncan and his family have never been slow to reference that connection. He probably thinks he should be on a similar career trajectory, destined for similar legendary status. He might think he's better than he is or he might think that no clubs are properly recognising his supreme talent (that's in his genes...!) - but yet nobody has offered more than £2m for him. He's had no interest from clubs such as Juventus, Barcelona, Madrid....the only clubs interested are those below LFC and even then neither of them think he's worth more than half a Kevin Stewart. You'd think that might cause some self-reflection, but no.

Perhaps it's this realisation that's now hitting him that's caused any mental health issues. From the age of about 7/8 he's probably grown up thinking he's going to follow in his cousin's footsteps (at that time Gerrard would have been at his peak, CL winner when Duncan was 4, FA Cup winner when he was 5, CL runner-up when he was 6, up until he was 13 he'd have known him as an England captain and the nation's talisman etc). He's probably had all around him saying how brilliant he is and how well he compares with his cousin at a similar age. He's smashed it at school, at local clubs, he's banged in the goals wherever he's been. But fast forward to the present day and to keep pace Duncan would need to make his debut for the first team by Christmas. By now Duncan can see that in terms of his career progression he's suddenly started to fall behind. Being hit by the dawning realisation that this next step is going to be far harder than anything he's had to do so far, the reality that he may not actually have that extra 10% needed to make it at the elite level...I can imagine that could take some time to adjust to...and accept.

I also have a cousin who played PL football. Indeed at a similar age to Duncan he was being spoken of as being the next big thing, England's answer to their left midfield. He was a genuinely elite prospect struck down by injury pretty much before his career had begun. The next Liam Brady, his career never came close to matching those hopes/expectations. I was proud of his achievements and would rarely miss an excuse to reference my connection (we were the same age) - I remember thinking that some people might even think of me as a semi-decent footballer just as a result of my shared DNA. Thankfully, I never had any delusions that I was brilliant (I was not good enough to even be scouted) so the thought of any entitlement (by association) to a particular career trajectory never arose. I never had to adjust to a reality I had not prepared myself for.

I hope Duncan gets some proper support. Not every striker breaking through does so at the age of 18. Not everyone is Shearer, Owen or Rooney. Some are Ian Wright, Didier Drogba, Harry Kane. But not everyone can make it at that level, that's life.
Thanks for the above I was going to ask you about the clubs position legally? The other thing was I read on the TIA front page that the club told him off about his frequent use of Twitter to attract attention to himself, I wonder whether that was the bullying allegation from his stupid agent?
 

Kopstar

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I certainly didn't understand your 'care in the community' comment. At best it appeared to belittle mental health and disability, which seems hypocritical given your comments here. Perhaps we can leave it there and let the other forumites can make up their own mind?

PS: Ref comment below, everyone knows what Care in the Community refers to. Care in the Community is the British policy of deinstitutionalization, treating and caring for physically and mentally disabled people in their homes rather than in an institution.
Oh, I thought we were leaving it there - so you return to add the extra shit despite my apology if that was how my original comment was construed? Classy.

For the record, I don't see you jumping in when worse comments have been directed towards me. Partly that might be because you've been responsible for some of them, eh?

I suggest we continue ignoring each other.
 



James H

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Oh, I thought we were leaving it there - so you return to add the extra shit despite my apology if that was how my original comment was construed? Classy.

For the record, I don't see you jumping in when worse comments have been directed towards me. Partly that might be because you've been responsible for some of them, eh?

I suggest we continue ignoring each other.
You apologised for someone's inference of what you said not what you said. Essentially you have said "I'm sorry you took it the wrong way". Not really an apology.

It's like Rodgers "offering" an apology after we lost 6-1 to Stoke but never actually giving one.
 

Kopstar

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You apologised for someone's inference of what you said not what you said. Essentially you have said "I'm sorry you took it the wrong way". Not really an apology.

It's like Rodgers "offering" an apology after we lost 6-1 to Stoke but never actually giving one.
I apologised that my comment apparently caused offence. It wasn't intended to. I anticipated that it would be understood in the way I intended, not in the way @scouseheadross inferred it. Clearly I was mistaken. I would have proffered that apology sooner if it had prompted anyone to say it offended them at the time.
 

Maria

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I just want to play football and it was deleted quite quickly.
I feel so sorry for the poor boy. He is caught in the middle. I bet he is scared and confused. He needs an arm round him and some good well wishers and sincere advisors around him to get him back on track.
 

James H

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but for the record if that is the inference drawn I apologise.
I apologised that my comment apparently caused offence.
But you didn't, you apologised for the unintended perception. Apologizing for offending someone would read like "I apologize for offending you".
 

Kopstar

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But you didn't, you apologised for the unintended perception. Apologizing for offending someone would read like "I apologize for offending you".
Perhaps if I thought that the comment had genuinely caused the claimed offence it might be a different story. But the poster wasn't so offended to say so at the time. They only chose to declare they found it offensive when looking to points-score. At the time they simply used it to take a dig at the Tories

There is no care in the community.

It was cut by the Tories.
Moral indignation, indeed.
 



James H

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Perhaps if I thought that the comment had genuinely caused the claimed offence it might be a different story. But the poster wasn't so offended to say so at the time. They only chose to declare they found it offensive when looking to points-score. At the time they simply used it to take a dig at the Tories



Moral indignation, indeed.
So you didn't in fact apologize at all with any form of sincerity, good to know.
 

Prolix

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The butt of the joke was Eddie, not any kind of marginalized community writ-large.

I found it to be quite funny...
 

Red over the water

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Maybe a word with Kasper Schmeichel or Jordi Cruyff might help.
Or Friar Tuck. It’s the hair!
O crap, I think I’ve just inadvertently bullied him.


* My serious comment is that I hope he’s not throwing around a weighty subject like mental health, unless he really does have issues - diagnosed proper stuff, rather than just being sad because he might not be as good as he hoped.

Come on Bobby lad. Knuckle down and make the most of what you’ve got. There’s honour in that, and everyone will respect you for it, wherever it may lead.
 
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GaryC

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When I was 18, I didn't even know what I wanted to do in life. For footballers, it is easy to forget that, while they may be professionals, some of them are still very young men. Bobby should give a call to his cousin Stevie, who has his interests at heart, and get his advice.
 



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