Christian Pulisic (AM) Borussia Dortmund

gr_sounder

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I saw his name pop up on newsfeeds yesterday related to United and knew it would restart some papers talking about him to Liverpool also.

Would be terribly disappointed if he went to United. Not only because I'd much rather he come here and I can't stand ManU... but also because it would be a mistake for him career wise. His game doesn't suit Mourinho's tactics or temperament. It does suit Liverpool's tactics and temperament under Klopp though. Hell he'd be a much better fit at Man City rather than ManU.

And of course, the papers talk about his signing being similar to Pogba's where he'd not only be a great player, but also be used to bring in American fans and their dollars. Before we start this again.... No player from the USA (not even Pulisic) is going to be a revenue generator for the club. USA Fans aren't going to start being mad fans and buying stuff to offset costs. It's just not that mentality here. Plus, it's a World Cup Year where the USA did the impossible, and managed to somehow miss out on the Final Tournament.... so he's not even going to be someone American fans could watch thrive in the World Cup and then want to follow him abroad where they might have spent money.
 

Semmy

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I saw his name pop up on newsfeeds yesterday related to United and knew it would restart some papers talking about him to Liverpool also.

Would be terribly disappointed if he went to United. Not only because I'd much rather he come here and I can't stand ManU... but also because it would be a mistake for him career wise. His game doesn't suit Mourinho's tactics or temperament. It does suit Liverpool's tactics and temperament under Klopp though. Hell he'd be a much better fit at Man City rather than ManU.

And of course, the papers talk about his signing being similar to Pogba's where he'd not only be a great player, but also be used to bring in American fans and their dollars. Before we start this again.... No player from the USA (not even Pulisic) is going to be a revenue generator for the club. USA Fans aren't going to start being mad fans and buying stuff to offset costs. It's just not that mentality here. Plus, it's a World Cup Year where the USA did the impossible, and managed to somehow miss out on the Final Tournament.... so he's not even going to be someone American fans could watch thrive in the World Cup and then want to follow him abroad where they might have spent money.
Don't underestimate the American buying market for what's becoming a very popular sport for kids to play. and the American media glamorizing their successful athletes.

I know it's not Europe, but if he really kicks on and gets picked up with a club that has international appeal beyond that of Dortmund (good luck finding a BvB jersey here, I had to get my brought over) there is a decent-sized market for it.
 

João Cunha

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I saw his name pop up on newsfeeds yesterday related to United and knew it would restart some papers talking about him to Liverpool also.

Would be terribly disappointed if he went to United. Not only because I'd much rather he come here and I can't stand ManU... but also because it would be a mistake for him career wise. His game doesn't suit Mourinho's tactics or temperament. It does suit Liverpool's tactics and temperament under Klopp though. Hell he'd be a much better fit at Man City rather than ManU
I would be ok with the idea of him going to United if we could get Griezmann
 

Limiescouse

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Don't underestimate the American buying market for what's becoming a very popular sport for kids to play. and the American media glamorizing their successful athletes.

I know it's not Europe, but if he really kicks on and gets picked up with a club that has international appeal beyond that of Dortmund (good luck finding a BvB jersey here, I had to get my brought over) there is a decent-sized market for it.
The American buying public is powerful, but I don't think they respond to this sort of thing. I see lots of Clint Dempsey and Bradley shirts here, but none from Fulham, spurs, Roma or even their mls sides. It's all US shirts. The club shirts I see on Americans, and I see a lot, have nothing to do with American players
 

nikz200

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If he goes to United or anywhere else, it would be a pity only because it seemed for the longest time Klopp rated him quite highly and was patiently watching his development in Dortmund. If thats the case we should go in for him. Obviously would take Grizemann if he was available but we have been here before with these rumours, thats all they ever are. Our interest in Pulisic is real and im sure the kid would like to move to us.
 

steveee

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The American buying public is powerful, but I don't think they respond to this sort of thing. I see lots of Clint Dempsey and Bradley shirts here, but none from Fulham, spurs, Roma or even their mls sides. It's all US shirts. The club shirts I see on Americans, and I see a lot, have nothing to do with American players
your answer to that is in your post. You spoke about roma, Fulham, spurs... the difference with Pulisic is he will be going to a club like Man u or Liverpool which well isn't that a first ever for american attacking player go play regular football at one of the 2 biggest clubs in Englands history? that alone will bring in USA hype.. there is more United and or Liverpool fans in the USA than all those other clubs you named put together times 10. that's a major difference

Pulisic going to Man u or Liverpool will be huge topic of discussion as any 'soccer' fan in the USA all will think that is a huge deal....

the difference is EVERY extreme casual footie or sports fan in the USA knows LIverpool and MAn u but they don't all know who Roma is...
 
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Semmy

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The American buying public is powerful, but I don't think they respond to this sort of thing. I see lots of Clint Dempsey and Bradley shirts here, but none from Fulham, spurs, Roma or even their mls sides. It's all US shirts. The club shirts I see on Americans, and I see a lot, have nothing to do with American players
Went to a Galaxy game vs Seattle. Gerrard was playing. Easily 1500 of his LFC red shirts on display in that stadium of 20000 fans for an MLS game.

You put Pulisic in a red shirt, do a preseason tour for that tournament they play in August in the USA along with the US national team and they will sell. 10 years of marketable value for that young man if his career continues an upward trajectory

Rewards may not be immediate but the potential is there
 

OLDIE

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Went to a Galaxy game vs Seattle. Gerrard was playing. Easily 1500 of his LFC red shirts on display in that stadium of 20000 fans for an MLS game.

You put Pulisic in a red shirt, do a preseason tour for that tournament they play in August in the USA along with the US national team and they will sell. 10 years of marketable value for that young man if his career continues an upward trajectory

Rewards may not be immediate but the potential is there
Isn't that the very same reason that Everton brought Donavon in a few years ago?

Surely what the player brings to the team is more important
 

Limiescouse

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Went to a Galaxy game vs Seattle. Gerrard was playing. Easily 1500 of his LFC red shirts on display in that stadium of 20000 fans for an MLS game.

You put Pulisic in a red shirt, do a preseason tour for that tournament they play in August in the USA along with the US national team and they will sell. 10 years of marketable value for that young man if his career continues an upward trajectory

Rewards may not be immediate but the potential is there
My point is the US fan base is already buying a ton of shirts, as you saw first hand. Americans who consider themselves Liverpool fans are far more likely to buy a Liverpool with a non-American player's name on it, than they are of an American who plays for another club. You add Pulisic to one of those big clubs with an already established fan base and many of their American fans will buy a Pulisic shirt the next time they buy one, but they will do at the expense of the other shirt they were already going to buy. And the US based Chelsea, or Arsenal or Utd fans are not going to buy that shirt. If the additional attention his presence on a more marketable and visible team results in increased shirt sales it will be almost all for the US team's shirts.
 

Semmy

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My point is the US fan base is already buying a ton of shirts, as you saw first hand. Americans who consider themselves Liverpool fans are far more likely to buy a Liverpool with a non-American player's name on it, than they are of an American who plays for another club. You add Pulisic to one of those big clubs with an already established fan base and many of their American fans will buy a Pulisic shirt the next time they buy one, but they will do at the expense of the other shirt they were already going to buy. And the US based Chelsea, or Arsenal or Utd fans are not going to buy that shirt. If the additional attention his presence on a more marketable and visible team results in increased shirt sales it will be almost all for the US team's shirts.
I'm more interested in getting the LFC name more exposure than the player...thanks for proving my point.
 

big noyd

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Plus, he's... you know.. American, so... Believe you've already expressed your animosity towards our continent.
pulisic grew up about an hour west of me, in hershey, where years ago i took my turn snipping part of the net winning a basketball state championship

be different if there were 5 or 10 american players good enough, but there's just him, and i'd rather people who readily volunteer that they can't typically watch soccer unless it's the WC find another club (that was me through my teens; we despise that which we see of ourselves in others)

also suspect dortmund would command a nine figure fee for him, while monaco seems to flogging lemar a little bit at the moment. pulisic plays centrally for the US sometimes (as someone--maybe you?--pointed out), but i see him as more of a winger, who on a normal developmental track will improve his finishing over the next couple seasons and ultimately be a better replacement for salah should that come to pass

lemar could play opposite ox & flanking keita in a midfield 3 that would provide outstanding width, fill in at left wing, or play behind the striker in a 4 2 3 1. be a really nice addition imo
 

Wyld@Heart

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Ok lads. I have been underwhelmed by these Pulisic and Lemar links tbh given the cost suggested and if given a choice I would take the Lemar option but the prices are extortionate and really not in keeping with performances on the pitch. Can anyone tell me why Pulisic would command a nine figure sum as I have seen mentioned on here? I was curious and looked at his stats on transfermarkt and just to be fair I did the same for Lemar:

Pulisic has played 78 times for Dortmund in all comps and has registered 11 goals and 14 assists in 4588 minutes of play thus directly contributing to a goal every 183.52 minutes of play.

Lemar has played 144 times for Caen and Monaco in all comps and has registered 23 goals and 32 assists in 8848 minutes of play thus directly contributing to a goal every 160.87 minutes of play.

Then there is the issue of this season's form. By all accounts, Lemar is experiencing a dip in form and tbf, he has. Prior to this season, he was contributing a direct goal contribution every 154.70 minutes of play which has dropped to 203.14 minutes in 17/18.

Pulisic however, has experienced an even more alarming dip in form and from a pre 17/18 direct goal contribution every 137.60 minutes he is now only contributing every 366.40 this season.

Now make of that what you will and of course that isn't taking into account injuries, changes in team dynamic or managerial switches but its not like either has played so irregularly as to make this season's sample size so small as to be irrelevant. Lemar seems to be the more consistent performer and even in the case of an indifferent season in a team that saw three of its starting 11 get sold, he is still putting out numbers not all that far removed from seasons past. He has also played 144 games at this level and is at a stage where his career has passed out of that initial breakthrough stage and into a point where he can become an integral part of a team while still entering his prime.

Pulisic is younger and thus more inconsistent and it is showing with this season. This season's stats are far inferior than season's past but it is worth noting that he has only played 78 games at this level which is basically 2 seasons so while he is undoubtably talented, his career is still in its infancy. I do not think he is ready for an astronomical move to a massive club with a weight of expectation that has cowed many a pro and where he will be expected to perform from day one.

I'd still go with Lemar but if it were to be Pulisic then £60m would be the maximum I would expect us to pay to get him here. The market is insane but anything more than that for potential is foolhardy.
 

Iluvatar

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Lemar is 22, Pulisic is 19.. 3 years is huge in terms of development. Pulisic for me can become truly worldclass, Lemar,probably top class (tier below).
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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@Wyld@Heart out of interest how would the above measure up to pre Liverpool Salah and Mane? Also how about Coutinho Before this season?
 



Mascot88

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I think the reality is the market has shifted so that youth+development is not the cheap option is was.

A while ago you could identify a promising young player and get him for a snip - as long as you were willing to take the chance that he'd develop as you hoped and he wouldn't get poached by a bigger club.

Now that development potential is reflected more in the price. Still not as much a ready made world class player, but not peanuts.

Hence players like Pulisic are touted at 100m plus.

Unless the club are absolutely sure that the investment is worth it, it's better to get them a bit older when some of the potential issues have been ironed out.
 

Wyld@Heart

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@Wyld@Heart out of interest how would the above measure up to pre Liverpool Salah and Mane? Also how about Coutinho Before this season?
Salah played 207 games, scored 65, assisted 49 over 14147 minutes of European football averaging a goal contribution every 124.33 minutes played. That includes his time at Chelsea.

For Mané played 132 games, scoring 70 and assisting 46 over 12331 minutes of football averaging a goal contribution every 106.30 minutes played.

Coutinho played 264 times in total, including this season for Inter (included because its not really that small a sample, 47 games) scoring 64, assisting 51 over 18357 minutes of football averaging a goal contribution every 159.62 minutes played. Prior to this season saw a Liverpool career that saw him play 181 games, score 42, assist 37 over 13367 minutes of football averaging a goal contribution every 169.26 minutes of football played.

Kinda weird, isn't it?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Salah played 207 games, scored 65, assisted 49 over 14147 minutes of European football averaging a goal contribution every 124.33 minutes played. That includes his time at Chelsea.

For Mané played 132 games, scoring 70 and assisting 46 over 12331 minutes of football averaging a goal contribution every 106.30 minutes played.

Coutinho played 264 times in total, including this season for Inter (included because its not really that small a sample, 47 games) scoring 64, assisting 51 over 18357 minutes of football averaging a goal contribution every 159.62 minutes played. Prior to this season saw a Liverpool career that saw him play 181 games, score 42, assist 37 over 13367 minutes of football averaging a goal contribution every 169.26 minutes of football played.

Kinda weird, isn't it?
Don't think stats can show everything (Alonso was one of the most creative influences I've seen but his assists and goals hardly show it). Pulisic and Lemar kinda come across as half way between Mane/Salah and Coutinho. They're both really young still. I'm not sure their contributions do show as so terrible when considering the age they are.

Think they compare very well to Coutinho, Salah and Mane at the same ages.
 

Wyld@Heart

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Don't think stats can show everything (Alonso was one of the most creative influences I've seen but his assists and goals hardly show it). Pulisic and Lemar kinda come across as half way between Mane/Salah and Coutinho. They're both really young still. I'm not sure their contributions do show as so terrible when considering the age they are.

Think they compare very well to Coutinho, Salah and Mane at the same ages.
No of course. 100% agree. They are talented and if we got either one I would be very cool with that. What is bugging me is the prices being quoted for them when we got Mané for 35 million odd 18 months ago and Salah for not much more than that 6 months ago.

Paying for potential is one thing, being absolutely fleeced is another. As @Mascot88 says, the market is changed to reflect potential being reflected in price but in no market is Pulisic worth twice of what Salah is just 6 or 12 months down the line. At this rate the Coutinho money is likely to be all but enough for just one of Lemar or Coutinho which is just crazy. There is no logic to it. If thats the case then just break the wage bank for Sanchez, bid 35-40 million and be guaranteed a star player for the year and now. It will still be cheaper in total than going to stupid amounts to sign a talent still in development mode.