Christian Pulisic (AM) Borussia Dortmund

Alright Now

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It's flavour of the month stuff though, and it depends on where you live. For example, a friend of mine sent me this the other day:



This was in a sports shop in Southern California. There were no USA jerseys to be had anywhere. Mexico were in the World Cup, USA wasn't. Then Mexico were bounced out, and now they're selling off all the gear on sale because, well, the World Cup is over and nobody gives a shit any more.

Be curious if you go back to the same shop in a month and if those Pulisic jerseys/display is still there.
Could you have your friend pick up a Lozano shirt for me? Thanks in advance.
 

The Elusive 19th

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Obviously we do.... and will continue to do so... and I don't think anyone is stating otherwise.
If we were not, we'd have players from India, China, and South Korea.

Marketing opportunities are always just a bonus.
When you need other things like shirt sale, sponsorship deal etc, to justify the price tag of a player - it means that the player is not worth the money which we buy him for. Yet.

With Alisson, VVD (world record signing of keeper & defender) - we never talked about how their shirt sale and sponsorship will fund their purchase. Rather we talked only about how they will fit in the side and bring us trophies. It was purely about ability of the players.
 

redbj

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When you need other things like shirt sale, sponsorship deal etc, to justify the price tag of a player - it means that the player is not worth the money which we buy him for. Yet.

With Alisson, VVD (world record signing of keeper & defender) - we never talked about how their shirt sale and sponsorship will fund their purchase. Rather we talked only about how they will fit in the side and bring us trophies. It was purely about ability of the players.

Not really.

I think the point they are making is that the fee is inflated becuase of his potential marketability, it won’t have escaped Dortmund that his nationality adds numbers to his bottom line.

In balance sheet terms, they’ve added 10 mil in the fee, becuase there’s a 10 mil benefit to signing him ( figure plucked out of thin air).

It’s just numbers on a page, it still goes back to the quality of the player, but the original asking price is skewed against his, say, Estonian equivilant.

It’s a pretty un offensive take, it is what it is, it’s no ones ‘fault’ and shouldn’t be factored into any serious debate.
 

gr_sounder

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When you need other things like shirt sale, sponsorship deal etc, to justify the price tag of a player - it means that the player is not worth the money which we buy him for. Yet.

With Alisson, VVD (world record signing of keeper & defender) - we never talked about how their shirt sale and sponsorship will fund their purchase. Rather we talked only about how they will fit in the side and bring us trophies. It was purely about ability of the players.
I guess the point that I was trying to make is..... I think the price that is set is not based on marketability... it's completely based on his playing ability and potential (and years on contract).

Look I know you and I don't agree on his current ability and what he's proven, but whatever.
Personally I don't think he's worth 70M Euros at this point, I just don't. However I don't for a second think that Dortmund is setting that price saying "Well he's worth 60M euros based on his playing ability and 10M euros more for his marketability".

What I think others are saying is.... it's a high price, but maybe it's worth it to these owners who could market him to the USA and make that back. I get that logic (somewhat) but it's not what I want to do for justification.

I said it earlier and I'll reiterate. I think Dortmund set the price high... and they did so intentionally. They don't want to sell Pulisic right now (or next year to be honest) but if they are going to lose him now, they are going to make sure they get a super price for him. The high price they set is making other teams consider, but not pull the trigger on a deal as it's just too much for him right now. Again I think this was intentional so that nobody buys him this time around. So what I t hink happened is.... Dortmund said "He's worth 60M euros in this market, but... if you want him now, you're paying a premium of 10M euros more".

Of course it's all conjecture.
 

Cologne-Liverpool

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I guess the point that I was trying to make is..... I think the price that is set is not based on marketability... it's completely based on his playing ability and potential (and years on contract).

Look I know you and I don't agree on his current ability and what he's proven, but whatever.
Personally I don't think he's worth 70M Euros at this point, I just don't. However I don't for a second think that Dortmund is setting that price saying "Well he's worth 60M euros based on his playing ability and 10M euros more for his marketability".

What I think others are saying is.... it's a high price, but maybe it's worth it to these owners who could market him to the USA and make that back. I get that logic (somewhat) but it's not what I want to do for justification.

I said it earlier and I'll reiterate. I think Dortmund set the price high... and they did so intentionally. They don't want to sell Pulisic right now (or next year to be honest) but if they are going to lose him now, they are going to make sure they get a super price for him. The high price they set is making other teams consider, but not pull the trigger on a deal as it's just too much for him right now. Again I think this was intentional so that nobody buys him this time around. So what I t hink happened is.... Dortmund said "He's worth 60M euros in this market, but... if you want him now, you're paying a premium of 10M euros more".

Of course it's all conjecture.
Yep, nothing out of the ordinary here - if anything that "premium" would be about the 2 years left on his contract. The reported price is obviously a reflection of (supposed) potential and supposed interest in the market. He'd be a bet on talent for anyone that would buy him. Whether or not it would be a reasonable bet at that price is debatable.
The marketability argument is way overblown. Right now I don't think he makes that much of a difference for Dortmund in that area - if he were not to improve much in the future I don't think he'd be much of an asset in that area for anyone else either. Now if he were to become a one of the best players in the world in the future, yeah, I'm sure that would help his marketability in the US or wherever - but then that is just a bonus for having one of the best players in the world in your team anyway.
 

Chewbazza

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When you need other things like shirt sale, sponsorship deal etc, to justify the price tag of a player - it means that the player is not worth the money which we buy him for. Yet.

With Alisson, VVD (world record signing of keeper & defender) - we never talked about how their shirt sale and sponsorship will fund their purchase. Rather we talked only about how they will fit in the side and bring us trophies. It was purely about ability of the players.
Not many players are worth the money buy them for, the value is based on what they are worth to the seller. The price isn't how much we think he's worth it's how much he's worth to Dortmund, and he's worth that much due to both his ability on the pitch, his future potential and thirdly the commercial aspect.

If Klopp thinks he's worth that much then we'll pay it.

He's a very good player who will only get better and happens to be able to play in a position we're looking to recruit to.

If this was Yedlin, doesn't matter how popular in America he is or isn't, we wouldn't be interested because of his ability and have no need. for him
 

Noo Noo

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Not many players are worth the money buy them for, the value is based on what they are worth to the seller. The price isn't how much we think he's worth it's how much he's worth to Dortmund, and he's worth that much due to both his ability on the pitch, his future potential and thirdly the commercial aspect.

If Klopp thinks he's worth that much then we'll pay it.

He's a very good player who will only get better and happens to be able to play in a position we're looking to recruit to.

If this was Yedlin, doesn't matter how popular in America he is or isn't, we wouldn't be interested because of his ability and have no need. for him
Yedlin. Was he another that did a bit of an Origi? Storming World Cup and we're still waiting for the rest
 

gr_sounder

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Yedlin. Was he another that did a bit of an Origi? Storming World Cup and we're still waiting for the rest
Yup.
He came on like a high potential kid in 2013 at the U20 World Cup in Turkey and then played in the 2014 World Cup for the USA. He's a right back, who had great speed and some good technical ability. Problem is, he didn't really know how to defend, but he was a huge potential player largely due to his pace and the thought he'd become a quality attacking/wing back type. Unfortunately he's still never really learned to defend "that well" or be that good in the attacking aspect. Not a bad player but not a great one either.

Looks like he has found his calling in mid/bottom premier teams.... so I guess yes... "did a bit of an Origi" is probably appropriate.

Not bad, but not a world beater either nad not looking like he'll ever be a superstar. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be playing at Newcastle in the Premier League so it's not like I'm saying he's crap (neither is Origi), just not Liverpool quality. That said, if he was a left sided player he'd be every bit as capable as Moreno I think, but that's another issue.

Pulisic is definitely more talented than he is, and already much better than when Yedlin stormed the world cup.
 
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If Pulisic doesnt sign a contract in the next few months, we will sign Pulisic in the Winter Transfer Window and loan him to Dortmund till the end of the season..Klopp rates him and the owners will definetly want him..
 

lfc.8

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Not convinced by Pulisic. Sure he's young with potential but not sure he's really good enough. He seems a bit overhyped or perhaps I just need to see him play more.
 

Noo Noo

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This has the potential to be one of our longest transfer threads yet.

I cant see it happening until next Summer which means we have a whole year to speculate.
 

Speckydodge

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It is very very difficult to win the PL/CL. It give the club much more stability if you have players that is popular and add to the sponsorship deals.
Here's the thing though, I doubt imo anyway that Pulisic will ever have the popularity and commercial value that Mo already has. I know the more of these players is of no harm to us but let's just concentrate on the right player's no matter where they're from and how popular they are, by doing that I believe we'll win thing's and all the commercial deals will take care of themselves after that. Is Pulisic the right player? I'm not convinced yet anyway but I'll 100% back Klopp and the scouting team if they do.
 

vjcpatriot

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Here's the thing though, I doubt imo anyway that Pulisic will ever have the popularity and commercial value that Mo already has. I know the more of these players is of no harm to us but let's just concentrate on the right player's no matter where they're from and how popular they are, by doing that I believe we'll win thing's and all the commercial deals will take care of themselves after that. Is Pulisic the right player? I'm not convinced yet anyway but I'll 100% back Klopp and the scouting team if they do.
If Pulisic continues to progress he is a perfect fit. I see him slotting in at left wing and CAM ie the #10 slot. This gives us the ability to rest Mane without dropoff or play all 3 of Mane Pulisic Salah with Firmino up top on days we want to go with the 231 look. American market aside, and it's a huge market, in terms of footballer, Pulisic could really bolster Liverpool's attack options next season if we add him to the ranks.

Well we got a look at him up close and he scorched us head to head didn't he? It was only 'preseason' but he showed why he can be a deadly influence on the pitch. 2 goals and a play leading to an assist for goal. Trust me, Liverpool will monitor his progress closely this upcoming season. Even Klopp himself admitted that he likes the lad.
 

bornred

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If Pulisic continues to progress he is a perfect fit. I see him slotting in at left wing and CAM ie the #10 slot. This gives us the ability to rest Mane without dropoff or play all 3 of Mane Pulisic Salah with Firmino up top on days we want to go with the 231 look. American market aside, and it's a huge market, in terms of footballer, Pulisic could really bolster Liverpool's attack options next season if we add him to the ranks.

Well we got a look at him up close and he scorched us head to head didn't he? It was only 'preseason' but he showed why he can be a deadly influence on the pitch. 2 goals and a play leading to an assist for goal. Trust me, Liverpool will monitor his progress closely this upcoming season. Even Klopp himself admitted that he likes the lad.
He did well in a pre-season friendly game, in his home country, in a game against his old manager & a team that might sign him.
Not sure you can get too much from that.
 

bornred

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Not in the team or brought on as sub in BvB's big match vs Bayern.
Crap stats in competitive games.
Only reason we would pay big money for him is American owners & American player.
 

Red over the water

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He beat TAA a few times, including one time where TAA tried to shepherd it out and Pulisic got around him showing speed and determination. His one on one wasn’t a good finish at all - much better goal scorers than Pulisic miss plenty of those too - but the interesting part was the burst of pace through the middle he showed to even make it to the place where he had a chance to score.

Don’t get me wrong. He’s possibly borderline in justifying a place in the team we are becoming, as the standard is very high indeed. His output needs to improve, that’s for sure.

My tuppence worth is he is still a good player though. He is in and out the Dortmund team this season partly because they want him to sign a new deal and partly because they have some other excellent attacking talent. He has a turn of pace and is quite an intelligent player. He also seems a hard working character who is determined to make the most of his career. Not many people his age have played as many games in a top league, plus Champions League, plus been the talisman of the national team - don’t know their ranking but I’d guess about 20. Not great, but not no hopers either.

If we could sign him I would do it, as he ticks boxes for two positions and is also young enough to develop further under Klopp’s tutelage. However, he hasn’t shown enough, yet, such that I’d be comfortable paying crazy money for him. Ideally he winds it down to a year and we pounce for a reasonable sum.
 

hugo the horrible

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When he was first touted he looked a decent buy,but in that time we have moved on,not convinced he has!
He could come here and set the world on fire under Klopp,and he may not.
The silly money Dortmund are seeking wont come from us,I wouldn't think.
And,the other thing I wouldn't want to see is any thought is buying him for the American Market.
We buy him,if ,in the eyes of Klopp he is good enough and will fit the bill,no other reason.
 

vjcpatriot

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I just read another article that Chelsea is in 'advanced' negotiations for Pulisic. With Jadon Sancho's emergence, Pulisic should be expendable for Dortmund. I mean the lad doesn't even get regular starts there at the moment.

I feel like Pulisic will be sold. If not this winter, then in the summer. And Dortmund will be demanding a high price. Possibly at least £50m.

I still like Pulisic but the price is important too. There is some risk in buying younger players.

If we could pick up a player like Aouar for less, I'd rather gamble on him because he's more of a fit for that 10/8 role imo. Pulisic is more of a winger/amc. Thoughts?
 



vjcpatriot

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Who is Aouar?! Never heard of this geezer yet suddenly he's better than Pulisic?
He was good as a 19 year old wonderkid for OL and he's even better in his age 20 season. This article has more details on Aouar.

OL is a Ligue 1 talent factory. In recent years they have sold the likes of Tolisso to Bayern, Lacazette to Arsenal, Depay to Man United, and Umtiti to Barcelona.

If LFC signs Aouar we get a creative talented midfielder whom Klopp could really mold into that advanced playmaker or #10 role.
 

Speckydodge

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He was good as a 19 year old wonderkid for OL and he's even better in his age 20 season. This article has more details on Aouar.

OL is a Ligue 1 talent factory. In recent years they have sold the likes of Tolisso to Bayern, Lacazette to Arsenal, Depay to Man United, and Umtiti to Barcelona.

If LFC signs Aouar we get a creative talented midfielder whom Klopp could really mold into that advanced playmaker or #10 role.
Lyon didn't sell Depay to United, they bought him from United.
 

vjcpatriot

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My bad, I read that transfer wrong. But the main point still stands, in recent years OL has been a talent factory for bigger clubs to purchase players from.
 

Bob

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As a betting man, this is a deal I can see happening at some point in the next year or two.