Christian Pulisic (AM) Borussia Dortmund

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,049
Likes
12,237
I think we really need to be careful over this one. Here are the right wingers we currently have on our books:

  • Salah
  • Shaqiri
  • Mane
  • Wilson

We’re already having to shuffle the pack to fit Salah, Mane, Firmino and Shaqiri into the side. Pulisic is only going to add to that. If he comes in I think it is inevitable that at least one and possibly two out of the four listed above will have to make way. Maybe that’s what Klopp has in mind.

I would much rather see us focus on the left flank where we have very little quality cover for Mane and Robertson.
 

spartacus136

Active Member
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
202
Likes
108
Out of contract in 2020. Looks like he won’t sign a new one there so Dortmund will sell him next summer.

We don’t need another right wide player (that’s pretty much the only position he can play).

Can’t make it into Dortmund’s starting11 so what do we need him for?
I don't know why so much hype about this kid. He can't get minutes at Dortmund, barely score or assist :
2018/2019 : 2 goals, 2 assists.
2017/2018 : 4 goals, 6 assists.
2016/2017 : 4 goals, 8 assists.
2015/2016 : 2 goals.

I don't think he is good enough for us, (current and near future) .I doubt Dortmund can get anything bigger than 30m for him too.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
10,570
Likes
6,915
I think we really need to be careful over this one. Here are the right wingers we currently have on our books:

  • Salah
  • Shaqiri
  • Mane
  • Wilson

We’re already having to shuffle the pack to fit Salah, Mane, Firmino and Shaqiri into the side. Pulisic is only going to add to that. If he comes in I think it is inevitable that at least one and possibly two out of the four listed above will have to make way. Maybe that’s what Klopp has in mind.

I would much rather see us focus on the left flank where we have very little quality cover for Mane and Robertson.
Well to be fair I think that's a very structured way of pigeonholing players. Salah in my opinion is a proper right winger but being played at CF almost as much right now. Shaqiri can (and may well soon) play central as an 8/10 hybrid allowing our traditional front 3 to return, he can also play on the left although he hasn't yet for Klopp. Mane has now played more on the left for Klopp than the right and can also play central. Wilson seems to play slightly more on the left and almost as much central as he does on the right. And Pulisic himself can also play on the left as well as right and plays as a 10 for his national side. Add in Ox (CAM or wide) and Firmino (CF or CAM) and itd be a lot of options for who lines up how and what tactical changes can be made in game.
 

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,049
Likes
12,237
Well to be fair I think that's a very structured way of pigeonholing players. Salah in my opinion is a proper right winger but being played at CF almost as much right now. Shaqiri can (and may well soon) play central as an 8/10 hybrid allowing our traditional front 3 to return, he can also play on the left although he hasn't yet for Klopp. Mane has now played more on the left for Klopp than the right and can also play central. Wilson seems to play slightly more on the left and almost as much central as he does on the right. And Pulisic himself can also play on the left as well as right and plays as a 10 for his national side. Add in Ox (CAM or wide) and Firmino (CF or CAM) and itd be a lot of options for who lines up how and what tactical changes can be made in game.

Well to be fair that’s a pretty contrived response and already more than adequately covered by my

We’re already having to shuffle the pack to fit Salah, Mane, Firmino and Shaqiri into the side.

comment! :-)
 

Speckydodge

TIA Squad Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
2,417
Likes
1,104
We should be shuffling our pack , in fact we should be doing it more it's called rotation and those front 3 aren't getting a rest at all and god forbid any of them get a serious injury. We absolutely need another winger imo and one that can play both sides. But it wouldn't be Pulisic for me I think Leon Bailley , Lozano or Pavon would be better choices.
 

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,049
Likes
12,237
We should be shuffling our pack , in fact we should be doing it more it's called rotation and those front 3 aren't getting a rest at all and god forbid any of them get a serious injury. We absolutely need another winger imo and one that can play both sides. But it wouldn't be Pulisic for me I think Leon Bailley , Lozano or Pavon would be better choices.

Thanks for the sarcasm Miss de Point!

Clearly I’m referring to accommodating players into the lineup, including not in their primary position. You’re referring to resting players and keeping them fresh by rotation. Not the same thing - I suspect you already knew that though! :well done:
 
Last edited:

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
10,570
Likes
6,915
Well to be fair that’s a pretty contrived response and already more than adequately covered by my




comment! :-)
It wasn't contrived. You've categorised these players all as right wingers when that's only one of 2 or more positions they play. It's not shuffling the pack. It's Klopp having 2 distinct traits. First he likes multi functional players. Second he doesn't always use players in the way they've been used historically, see Ox, Gini and Firmino for a few examples. Then some of the players you list aren't even used exclusively as right wingers by other managers anyway. As it is Wilson and Mane are much more likely to be defined as left wingers as their primary positions these days. Salah blurs the lines between right winger and general forward. Both Pulisic and Shaqiri can play number 10 and are by their national sides.
 

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,049
Likes
12,237
It wasn't contrived. You've categorised these players all as right wingers when that's only one of 2 or more positions they play. It's not shuffling the pack. It's Klopp having 2 distinct traits. First he likes multi functional players. Second he doesn't always use players in the way they've been used historically, see Ox, Gini and Firmino for a few examples. Then some of the players you list aren't even used exclusively as right wingers by other managers anyway. As it is Wilson and Mane are much more likely to be defined as left wingers as their primary positions these days. Salah blurs the lines between right winger and general forward. Both Pulisic and Shaqiri can play number 10 and are by their national sides.

Those are their primary positions ...... yes including Mane! The left flank is crying out for reinforcements so according to you we blow a serious wad of money on another player who is primarily a right winger. I’m not commenting on Pulisic’s ability although I do happen to think he’s being massively overhyped.

Robertson and Mane are both doubts for the Burnley game. I’m not interested in making do with Milner or God forbid Moreno at left back or switching Firmino, Salah or Shaqiri to the left. If we have money available we need to bring in quality cover for the left back and left wing positions. If we don’t we’re going to continue to be the nearly men.

If there’s money left over I’d then focus on midfield for that elusive genuine playmaker or a Fekir type. Another player who is primarily a right winger but who can fill in in other positions is not a priority, we’ve already got enough of those. By all means get rid of Salah or Shaqiri and Wilson to raise money for Pulisic. Personally I’d rather keep Wilson over splashing out on Pulisic.

I’m not going to change my view on this. I’m all for versatility but it only gets you so far and can be overdone. I think we’re at that stage now with the players we already have.
 

Iluvatar

Allez Allez Allez
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
6,029
Likes
8,962
I think we really need to be careful over this one. Here are the right wingers we currently have on our books:
  • Salah
  • Shaqiri
  • Mane
  • Wilson
We’re already having to shuffle the pack to fit Salah, Mane, Firmino and Shaqiri into the side. Pulisic is only going to add to that. If he comes in I think it is inevitable that at least one and possibly two out of the four listed above will have to make way. Maybe that’s what Klopp has in mind.

I would much rather see us focus on the left flank where we have very little quality cover for Mane and Robertson.
Yep I agree, I can't stand watching Firmino get shuffled out wide because he "can do a job" when our option to rotate Mane becomes Sturridge coming on.

We need like for like replacements as we have a way of playing which at it's best is unplayable.. So why change that?

Aouar, Sancho, Dembele, Sessegnon should be our main targets ahead of Pulisic unless Pulisic is coming in to be groomed into a no.10
 

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,049
Likes
12,237
Yep I agree, I can't stand watching Firmino get shuffled out wide because he "can do a job" when our option to rotate Mane becomes Sturridge coming on.

We need like for like replacements as we have a way of playing which at it's best is unplayable.. So why change that?

Aouar, Sancho, Dembele, Sessegnon should be our main targets ahead of Pulisic unless Pulisic is coming in to be groomed into a no.10

I’d be looking at Draxler, Brandt, Baily, Sessegnon, Chilwell, Ndombélé, Aouar (and others) ....... before I splashed out on Pulisic. Dembele is tempting except for the fee and his temperament.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
18,393
Likes
30,597
I think we really need to be careful over this one. Here are the right wingers we currently have on our books:

  • Salah
  • Shaqiri
  • Mane
  • Wilson

We’re already having to shuffle the pack to fit Salah, Mane, Firmino and Shaqiri into the side. Pulisic is only going to add to that. If he comes in I think it is inevitable that at least one and possibly two out of the four listed above will have to make way. Maybe that’s what Klopp has in mind.

I would much rather see us focus on the left flank where we have very little quality cover for Mane and Robertson.
1. It’s a little disingenuous to call Mane a ‘right winger’. He hasn’t played there for a couple of years now.

2. Harry Wilson is probably best served by remaining on loan next year, especially if Derby get promoted. It may harm his development to be playing week in and week out, to barely play at Liverpool.

3. Pulisic can play anywhere across the forward line, or as a number 10 (where he plays for the US national team).
 

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,049
Likes
12,237
1. It’s a little disingenuous to call Mane a ‘right winger’. He hasn’t played there for a couple of years now.

2. Harry Wilson is probably best served by remaining on loan next year, especially if Derby get promoted. It may harm his development to be playing week in and week out, to barely play at Liverpool.

3. Pulisic can play anywhere across the forward line, or as a number 10 (where he plays for the US national team).

Disingenuous? Either you don’t know what the word means or you’re being unnecessarily rude. I can assure you that I am being quite sincere in my opinion but thanks anyway for the inference that I’m not simply to suit your argument.

Anyway, I only stated my honest opinion on a football forum. I didn’t come on here to be accused of being dishonest and insincere when there is absolutely no evidence or justification for it. I’ve said my piece and stand by it. Over and out! :wave:
 
Last edited:

LaurazRed

The hopeful one
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
1,022
Likes
1,665
I think we really need to be careful over this one. Here are the right wingers we currently have on our books:

  • Salah
  • Shaqiri
  • Mane
  • Wilson

We’re already having to shuffle the pack to fit Salah, Mane, Firmino and Shaqiri into the side. Pulisic is only going to add to that. If he comes in I think it is inevitable that at least one and possibly two out of the four listed above will have to make way. Maybe that’s what Klopp has in mind.

I would much rather see us focus on the left flank where we have very little quality cover for Mane and Robertson.
Plus cover at right back and leave Gomez in his best position.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
18,393
Likes
30,597
Disingenuous? Either you don’t know what the word means or you’re being unnecessarily rude. I can assure you that I am being quite sincere in my opinion but thanks anyway for the inference that I’m not simply to suit your argument.

Anyway, I only stated my honest opinion on a football forum. I didn’t come on here to be accused of being dishonest and insincere when there is absolutely no evidence or justification for it. I’ve said my piece and stand by it. Over and out! :wave:
Mate, at some point your going to have to get used to people disagreeing with you.
 

Red over the water

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
693
Likes
1,193
I think Pulisic is versatile enough to play in 2-3 positions.

The issue for me is quality. He’s definitely a good player, but a great one? He could become that but he’s not there yet. So as a young player, the fee you end up paying is often based on what they might become, rather than on what they are, so if it gets too inflated there might be better options elsewhere.

I’m chilled about it though. If he comes, great. If we get someone else, great. I’m confident in the recruitment team.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
10,570
Likes
6,915
I think Pulisic is versatile enough to play in 2-3 positions.

The issue for me is quality. He’s definitely a good player, but a great one? He could become that but he’s not there yet. So as a young player, the fee you end up paying is often based on what they might become, rather than on what they are, so if it gets too inflated there might be better options elsewhere.

I’m chilled about it though. If he comes, great. If we get someone else, great. I’m confident in the recruitment team.
Get out of my head!

On position I suspect (though we will probably never know) that Klopp would use Pulisic on the left over the right. He uses right footed Mane on the left and left footed Salah on the right. He likes his wingers cutting in and attacking not hugging the touch line whipping it in. Pulisic appears to be right footed so I think he'd be used left or number 10. I think one of his considerations when agreeing to move to a new club will be which clubs are willing to let him develop centrally like he plays nationally.
 

The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
4,192
Likes
3,120
With 1 year left in the contract and not getting much starts fro Dortmund, he maybe worth a pint at 10-20m. Even then, I would splash the cash for 1 finished article rather than a punt at Pulisic. If you look at youngsters - we already have Solanke, Wilson, Woodburn, Brewster to give game time.
Mane, Bobby, Salah, Fat b*****d, Ox, WILSON and someone from Griezmann, Dybala, Werner for me. If Sancho is fine ahead of Pulisic. With Solanke, Brewster and Woodburn going on loans.
 

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,049
Likes
12,237
Mate, at some point your going to have to get used to people disagreeing with you.

I have. Its posters like you using big words they clearly don’t understand to try to win the argument that’s a bit more difficult. ;-)
 

Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,049
Likes
12,237
Plus cover at right back and leave Gomez in his best position.

I think, if as expected, Clyne moves on, this is something we might need to look at although both Gomez and Fabinho can cover that position. I would imagine that once Fabinho has fully got to grips with his primary role in the side he might then be considered as cover for right back but certainly not before.
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
3
Likes
2
With 1 year left in the contract and not getting much starts fro Dortmund, he maybe worth a pint at 10-20m. Even then, I would splash the cash for 1 finished article rather than a punt at Pulisic. If you look at youngsters - we already have Solanke, Wilson, Woodburn, Brewster to give game time.
Mane, Bobby, Salah, Fat b*****d, Ox, WILSON and someone from Griezmann, Dybala, Werner for me. If Sancho is fine ahead of Pulisic. With Solanke, Brewster and Woodburn going on loans.
Griezmann and Dybala aren't going anywhere.
 

rupzzz

TIA Regular
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
6,649
Likes
5,460
Reminder that Pulisic is younger than Harry Wilson whom everyone is losing their minds over because he's scoring some goals in the Championship.
Difference here is that Wilson has a long term contract for Liverpool, is home grown, and knows the club/system etc. That is massive compared to habing to spend £70m (and likely a 6 figure weekly salary) for Pulisic.

So whilst Wilson is making waves in the Championship, and I get your point about Pulisic being younger, your arguement doesn't carry much weight due to the massive transfer fee that will need to be spent.

For me, that fee should be spent either on an out and out striker or a No.10.

We also have Ojo and Brewster in the ranks.
 
Last edited:

Prolix

Long Time Nemesis™
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,401
Likes
2,533
Difference here is that Wilson has a long term contract for Liverpool, is home grown, and knows the club/system etc. That is massive compared to having to spend £70m (and likely a 6 figure weekly salary) for Pulisic.
I'm alluding exclusively to how some people are talking about Pulisic like he's washed up already. The kid has been playing at the very top level for years now at a very young age. The comparison to Wilson is just to offer a bit of perspective of the development path kids this age usually take, and a defense of him taking a (small) step back. If we were interested that could only be a good thing. I don't know or care anything about what he might transfer for, tbh.
 



Caradoc

Y Goeden Bywyd
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
8,049
Likes
12,237
I'm alluding exclusively to how some people are talking about Pulisic like he's washed up already. The kid has been playing at the very top level for years now at a very young age. The comparison to Wilson is just to offer a bit of perspective of the development path kids this age usually take, and a defense of him taking a (small) step back. If we were interested that could only be a good thing. I don't know or care anything about what he might transfer for, tbh.

Who’s said he’s washed up? That’s ridiculous!
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
14,703
Likes
25,576
I think the arguments against Pulisic have mainly revolved around his cost and the overrating of his current ability (not to mention the overstated 'US market' argument) rather than holding the opinion he isn't talented or wouldn't be worth pursuing under any circumstances. Certain people were wanting us to spend a ridiculous amount of money on him, far beyond what he'd be worth...reminiscent of those wanting us to spend 92 million on Lemar last season.

Just not a sensible thing to do. If his fee comes down significantly from what has generally been quoted on forums and in papers so far due to his lack of game-time/contract situation I think more people will be on board with the signing.
 
Last edited:

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
10,570
Likes
6,915
I think with a lot of Klopps targets that we get a lot of "why him" before the move. Whether because people aren't sure how the player will fit, whether they're worth the money or whether or not there's better out there to target.

One of the reasons I think that happens is Klopp and the team are recruiting to skills and abilities for roles not just the traditional player identification of "he's storming it in that position so I'll stick him in my side in the same position to storm it here"!

Because of this more abstract way of identifying talent I think it's sometimes harder to know what has made us go for a specific player and how he'd be utilised if we land him (except for Alisson of course).

Taking a very simple look at Pulisic it might not be immediately apparent why we might target him over others. But I think there are a few qualities to be aware of that mean we should keep an open mind. He can press, he is fast, he can create and can score goals. Klopp has also had the opportunity to weigh him up and measure him as a blank canvas to see what could be done with his skill set and physical attributes. Also seems a good kid.

Personally I won't cry myself to sleep if we don't sign him. However if we do go for him that's all the evidence I need that Klopp has identified how he can get a player with his skills and attributes to perform at top or world class standards.

I'm looking at the "why him", "surely not at that price" and "there's CBs who are more proven at a top level" over Van Dijk who was just a decent CB and not worthy of being the world's most expensive. But Klopp knew his skills and attributes were exactly what was needed and Van Dijk now performs at world class levels. Salah and Robertson are other examples of "why him" turning into "oh that's why" and Klopp being 100% vindicated in his choices.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
18,393
Likes
30,597
I have. Its posters like you using big words they clearly don’t understand to try to win the argument that’s a bit more difficult. ;-)
As suggested in this very post, it’s the fact that you think everything is an argument that is the problem.