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Conspiracy? Bias? Dumb luck? Why do LFC get shit decisions?

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Quicksand

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This thread has 2 distinct polar opposites and a bit of middle ground......

Side 1, the first polarised side argues that biases exist against Liverpool. Many examples are quoted and theories as to why these biases exist. Obviously I see the arguments as compelling. I have held the views for a long time and have watched the "decline" of fortunes for LFC, and recognise that though biases certainly exist they are not the sole reason we have not won the title in decades.

The middle ground might be amused or bemused by the argument

The polarised Side 2 dont believe in conspiracy theories and are vehement in their argument. Thing is, there are no arguments being made for a grand conspiracy, the term is a convenient way of dismissing the Side 1 position. Some agree bias exists but dont acknowledge that Liverpool suffer more than most.

I think the thread was designed and commenced to dispel the myths, to bury the "theorists" theories and put the "shite" (quoted from OP) in other threads to bed.
It has not succeeded. It has further strenghtened my absolute belief, with the conviction in some brilliant posts underpinning what I already knew. So thanks for that.
 


FilthyBloke

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my View is that referees try their best but are usually not up to scratch. They can also be anti big club to try and prove they are not influenced by the crowd etc.
But like the overturned United red card last night, it’s still a divided opinion. No matter what decision the referee gave on that occasion, half the fans would think he was harsh and the other half lenient.
Personally I think VAR should be kept to a limited role and not to question the referee every time he blows the whistle.
Debate and conversation are what makes football so great and to take away that would be a shame.

I don’t think there is any great conspiracy, I don’t think there is any agenda. Little clubs think they are treated badly. Most big clubs do. I’m not sure any club has fans that believe they are somehow being favoured.
 

Irishanfield

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Do you even know the meaning of conspiracy or conspiring?
You're either a bit dim, or being purposely obtuse.

Dont bother quoting me again, as I wont be responding.
Well I have no choice but to reply as you took a dig at me.

You have said a few refs go beyond incompetence and are corrupt so that implies a conspiracy.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Well I have no choice but to reply as you took a dig at me.

You have said a few refs go beyond incompetence and are corrupt so that implies a conspiracy.
For it to be a conspiracy it has to be people intentionally working together and planning it. People making shit calls because they have preconceived thoughts going into a game is not a conspiracy. The chance that an official or authority figure has been bribed here and there and corruption exists is also not a conspiracy.
 



[email protected]

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For it to be a conspiracy it has to be people intentionally working together and planning it. People making shit calls because they have preconceived thoughts going into a game is not a conspiracy. The chance that an official or authority figure has been bribed here and there and corruption exists is also not a conspiracy.
Well if its people intentionally planning and working together to bribe and corrupt then it is, in actual fact, a conspiracy. Let's be honest, its not going to be a random individual doing it for a laugh, now is it?

Ducks out the room ;-)
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Well if its people intentionally planning and working together to bribe and corrupt then it is, in actual fact, a conspiracy. Let's be honest, its not going to be a random individual doing it for a laugh, now is it?

Ducks out the room ;-)
Ok my bad it's a conspiracy by an entity to bribe an official or authority figure. It's not a conspiracy in the way constantly being referenced (ie one involving multiple officials or authority figures). That type of conspiracy is only being brought up in an attempt to belittle, mock and undmine the view points of others who aren't trying to claim that type of conspiracy exists in the first place.
 

sms1986

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Some agree bias exists but dont acknowledge that Liverpool suffer more than most.
And that is why we're never going to come to a full agreement on this issue, because although I love our club I just don't think we suffer more than most. I've said it so many times by now, but every other fanbase claims that their team suffers more than most because we don't focus as much on other clubs.

We support the same team and want that team to win everything, to win every game or at least the vast majority, to never even so much as concede a goal. It's a team we all care deeply for, but this is an argument that won't come to a conclusion.
 

Irishanfield

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For it to be a conspiracy it has to be people intentionally working together and planning it. People making shit calls because they have preconceived thoughts going into a game is not a conspiracy. The chance that an official or authority figure has been bribed here and there and corruption exists is also not a conspiracy.
But he did not say one ref was corrupt, he said a few refs were corrupt which is why I said that it was a conspiracy
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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But he did not say one ref was corrupt, he said a few refs were corrupt which is why I said that it was a conspiracy
Only if he was suggesting those refs were working together and organising it in the context of what you are saying. If he's just saying some refs could potentially be bought here and there then, yes the entities doing the bribing of the officials are technically conspiring, but not the way that is being discussed and mocked in here!
 

Irishanfield

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Only if he was suggesting those refs were working together and organising it in the context of what you are saying. If he's just saying some refs could potentially be bought here and there then, yes the entities doing the bribing of the officials are technically conspiring, but not the way that is being discussed and mocked in here!
Also the officials are also conspiring . But my intelligence was mocked for pointing out that if its more than one then its a conspiracy
 

Dane

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Only if he was suggesting those refs were working together and organising it
Precisely, and he (me) wasn't suggesting that
If refs are getting together and saying to each other, 'Let's help City win this quadruple', then that would be a conspiracy.
But, if a few/couple/all refs are secretly allowing themselves to be influenced by all this media hype, then that is not a conspiracy.

But as usual the wrong end of the stick is grasped and wrong conclusions jumped to.
 

SBYM

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Has everyone seen Conspiracy with Stanley Tucci, Kenneth Branagh, and Colin Firth?

Fucking top-notch. Really reinforced for me the horrors underpinning the idea of 'the banality of evil.'

Oh no, I've Godwin-ed the thread...

Better close it.
 






Scott Jones

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Watched the 6 Nations Rugby and have to say how refreshing to see referees seeing a wrong decision on the big screen and apologetically reversing his call calling himself out as being wrong for everyone to hear,I GOT IT WRONG said the referee whilst reversing his decision,humble,friendly and ultimately really wanting to make the right decision for the match,the difference between refereeing in the two sports is mind blowing.
 

Quicksand

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Watched the 6 Nations Rugby and have to say how refreshing to see referees seeing a wrong decision on the big screen and apologetically reversing his call calling himself out as being wrong for everyone to hear,I GOT IT WRONG said the referee whilst reversing his decision,humble,friendly and ultimately really wanting to make the right decision for the match,the difference between refereeing in the two sports is mind blowing.
I saw that and I totally agree. Amazing that we remark on this as being outside the norm when it should be 100% how referees behave.
 

Hope in your heart

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This thread has 2 distinct polar opposites and a bit of middle ground......

Side 1, the first polarised side argues that biases exist against Liverpool. Many examples are quoted and theories as to why these biases exist. Obviously I see the arguments as compelling. I have held the views for a long time and have watched the "decline" of fortunes for LFC, and recognise that though biases certainly exist they are not the sole reason we have not won the title in decades.

The middle ground might be amused or bemused by the argument

The polarised Side 2 dont believe in conspiracy theories and are vehement in their argument. Thing is, there are no arguments being made for a grand conspiracy, the term is a convenient way of dismissing the Side 1 position. Some agree bias exists but dont acknowledge that Liverpool suffer more than most.

I think the thread was designed and commenced to dispel the myths, to bury the "theorists" theories and put the "shite" (quoted from OP) in other threads to bed.
It has not succeeded. It has further strenghtened my absolute belief, with the conviction in some brilliant posts underpinning what I already knew. So thanks for that.
Why do you even feel the need to polarise the discussion? Every single poster on here has his own opinions which differ from others. Yeah, I've said in the opening post that the conspiracy theories brought forward by jaffod and a few others in different threads, and which have gained pace lately, are shite. I still stand by it. They are a perfect example of perception bias which, as has been argued before, are largely shared with all other fans' groups who also think that they are unfairly treated by refs, by the FA, by UEFA and what not.

My own take on why we haven't won a league title in decades is very, very, very simple: we have never been good enough to win it, at any point.

Not the side under Evans (good attacking play, but shite defence), Houillier (Arsenal were far better then), not the side under Rafa (utd were dominant and had the better players and better depth, it was close, but they were still better overall), not Rodgers' (the players in that side couldn't defend properly even if their lives had depended on it), nor until this point, Klopp's. When we'll be good enough, we'll win a title again. Hopefully it will be this season, and if not, we'll have to improve even further, until we reach that point. Some day, it will happen, and with a bit of luck, that day isn't too far away anymore. Everything is now in place to make that further step, hopefully we'll be able to take it.

Funny btw. that those claims about us being unfairly treated and about bias in media, ref corps, FA etc. gain traction just at the moment when we're about to impose ourselves through nothing else than our own quality on the pitch. It's quite ironic, but maybe understandable from a psychological point of view. But I hold these claims for anything but helpful. Instead of focusing their minds on the game and enthusing about our team's formidable ability to win games, some fans allow this kind of mental sideshows to gain the upper hand in their minds, and to infect the whole perception of this title race, also for others.

Yes, I'll say it again, it's ridiculous to be honest, and also a bit sad. We can only hope that nothing of this transpires towards the players. Otherwise, we can wave goodbye to any credible attempt to win the title.
 



CymruRed

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Watched the 6 Nations Rugby and have to say how refreshing to see referees seeing a wrong decision on the big screen and apologetically reversing his call calling himself out as being wrong for everyone to hear,I GOT IT WRONG said the referee whilst reversing his decision,humble,friendly and ultimately really wanting to make the right decision for the match,the difference between refereeing in the two sports is mind blowing.

This is exactly how football should be,rugby is miles ahead in this department,the refs should be mic'd up for all to hear and screens put up in every ground,especially for VAR to work properly,also the other reason it works right,is because the players have to have respect for the refs and only the captains are really allowed to talk to him.Unitll the prem takes a good look at the way it works in the rugby,refs and dodgy decisions will always be given.
 

Dane

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Why do you even feel the need to polarise the discussion? Every single poster on here has his own opinions which differ from others. Yeah, I've said in the opening post that the conspiracy theories brought forward by jaffod and a few others in different threads, and which have gained pace lately, are shite. I still stand by it. They are a perfect example of perception bias which, as has been argued before, are largely shared with all other fans' groups who also think that they are unfairly treated by refs, by the FA, by UEFA and what not.

My own take on why we haven't won a league title in decades is very, very, very simple: we have never been good enough to win it, at any point.

Not the side under Evans (good attacking play, but shite defence), Houillier (Arsenal were far better then), not the side under Rafa (utd were dominant and had the better players and better depth, it was close, but they were still better overall), not Rodgers' (the players in that side couldn't defend properly even if their lives had depended on it), nor until this point, Klopp's. When we'll be good enough, we'll win a title again. Hopefully it will be this season, and if not, we'll have to improve even further, until we reach that point. Some day, it will happen, and with a bit of luck, that day isn't too far away anymore. Everything is now in place to make that further step, hopefully we'll be able to take it.

Funny that those claims about us being unfairly treated and about bias in media, ref corps, FA etc. gain traction just at the moment when we're about to impose ourselves through nothing else than our own quality on the pitch. It's quite ironic, but maybe understandable from a psychological point of view. But I hold these claims for anything but helpful. Instead of focusing their minds on the game and enthusing about our team's formidable ability to win games, some fans allow this kind of mental sideshows to gain the upper hand in their minds, and to infect the whole perception of this title race.

Yes, I'll say it again, it's ridiculous to be honest, and also a bit sad.
Probably because despite ripping it up in the league and amassing a points tally that would win the league almost every other season, we may still find ourselves coming up short.

And aside from City playing exceptionally well, they appear to have had "the rub of the green" with a fair few decisions.

To dismiss this out of hand, and take the piss out of people who highlight this as perhaps being a bit iffy is also a bit sad.
 

Quicksand

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Why do you even feel the need to polarise the discussion? Every single poster on here has his own opinions which differ from others. Yeah, I've said in the opening post that the conspiracy theories brought forward by jaffod and a few others in different threads, and which have gained pace lately, are shite. I still stand by it. They are a perfect example of perception bias which, as has been argued before, are largely shared with all other fans' groups who also think that they are unfairly treated by refs, by the FA, by UEFA and what not.

My own take on why we haven't won a league title in decades is very, very, very simple: we have never been good enough to win it, at any point.

Not the side under Evans (good attacking play, but shite defence), Houillier (Arsenal were far better then), not the side under Rafa (utd were dominant and had the better players and better depth, it was close, but they were still better overall), not Rodgers' (the players in that side couldn't defend properly even if their lives had depended on it), nor until this point, Klopp's. When we'll be good enough, we'll win a title again. Hopefully it will be this season, and if not, we'll have to improve even further, until we reach that point. Some day, it will happen, and with a bit of luck, that day isn't too far away anymore. Everything is now in place to make that further step, hopefully we'll be able to take it.

Funny btw. that those claims about us being unfairly treated and about bias in media, ref corps, FA etc. gain traction just at the moment when we're about to impose ourselves through nothing else than our own quality on the pitch. It's quite ironic, but maybe understandable from a psychological point of view. But I hold these claims for anything but helpful. Instead of focusing their minds on the game and enthusing about our team's formidable ability to win games, some fans allow this kind of mental sideshows to gain the upper hand in their minds, and to infect the whole perception of this title race, also for others.

Yes, I'll say it again, it's ridiculous to be honest, and also a bit sad. We can only hope that nothing of this transpires towards the players. Otherwise, we can wave goodbye to any credible attempt to win the title.
You polarised the thread with your opening and subsequent titles.

I recognised a long way back that this bias against the club isnt the sole reason we have declined in fortunes. And at no point did I say we lost titles because of bias. But we were certainly not helped. The Suarez situation illustrates this. Regarding PL referees? We have done better in Europe in the last twenty or so years, but maybe thats a coincidence.

Transpiring towards the players? I hope Klopp recognises it and uses it to develop the siege mentality often required to get the teams over the line.
 

SirBillShankly

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To my eyes the real problem is the standard of refereeing. Too many of them are incompetent and inconsistent.

Shame we can't import a load of foreign referees, replace all of our ones,( apart from Oliver, who seems decent) that would sort out a lot of the nonsense that goes on.
 

Hope in your heart

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Transpiring towards the players? I hope Klopp recognises it and uses it to develop the siege mentality often required to get the teams over the line.
So, you prefer our players to believe that everyone is against them, and to start pitying themselves, instead of focussing on their own qualities? I hope for sure that Klopp won't start with this nonsense!
Probably because despite ripping it up in the league and amassing a points tally that would win the league almost every other season, we may still find ourselves coming up short.

And aside from City playing exceptionally well, they appear to have had "the rub of the green" with a fair few decisions.

To dismiss this out of hand, and take the piss out of people who highlight this as perhaps being a bit iffy is also a bit sad.
We may, or we may not. You don't know this right now, nor do I. And I don't take the piss out of anyone in here, certainly not those who highlight the few iffy decisions going against us (we've had some going our way too, let's not forget that).

What I take the piss out of, are those mental constructs who string all these random events together, in order to persuade us that the refs, the FA, and the media have it in against us more so than towards other clubs, and that it results in decisions going systematically against us.
 



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