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Conspiracy? Bias? Dumb luck? Why do LFC get shit decisions?

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ptt

2020, head of the table.
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Anyone noticed how our decline from dominance the last 30 years has coincided with the rise in Autism diagnoses? Which have also coincided with the rise in mandatory immunizations? Which has also coincided with China and India becoming major players on the global economic stage? Which has also coincided with the advent and subsequent rise of the World Wide Web?





Think about it.
Tell me you’re kidding. Please?
 

Rambler

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This has been discussed in so many threads, so maybe its worthy of discussion seperatley.
I dont understand the need for the attempted comedic thread title(s). It undermines the arguments that can be made, and sets the tone of the discussion so that those arguing that bias against Liverpool exists are being mocked.
Maybe a title like "Does bias exist against LFC?" Would that be a bit more fair?

Anyway, my apologies for rising to the bait set by @sms1986 in the Man City Rivals thread. He was clearly looking for reaction with the conspiracy comments, and I reacted. But that thread was not the only one where baiting occurred. Maybe he thought he would have a wind up, bit of comedy gold?

Anyway
I dont believe there is a conspiracy at the highest level to stop us winning the league.
But.....bias exists against us and has done for a while now. Whether its overt or hidden, its there, and it is, in my view primarily down to the Murdoch influence in football, with SKY being an extension of his empire. Since his rag was hammered following their lies, his media influences had Liverpool in their sights. But the distaste for Liverpool went back a bit further. The European ban following Heysel had some clubs take the knives out for LFC. And that is probably engendered in their culture since. The ban hurt Liverpool more than the rest, but its still rankles with some clubs that they could have played in Europe but for LFC.
Then SKY invented football, resureccted Man Utd, and put LFC in their place. So all was well with the world.
Whenever LFC raised their heads something was flung at them. Rafa's rant haunted us. He told the truth but SKY made him look a bit foolish. Fergie called Suarez a diver. So he is a diver. The Evra situation, badly handled by the club but the word of a serial liar leads to a ban for Suarez? If it was Lampard or Terry in Suarez place the FA might have told Evra to fuck off, but the die had been cast for Suarez. One of the best players to grace the league was never loved by the media, despite his obvious brilliance. Why? Because Fergie said he was a cheat. And SKY agreed.

Research and stats from last season of an 18 point swing in favour of Man Utd against Liverpool due to incorrect decisions. The facts smugly derided by the same people who use stats to support other arguments? I was asked if Stoke had grounds for complaint, as they lost points to bad decisions. But this isn't a Stoke forum?
If the study had no empirical value, if it was handwritten on a cigarette packet you could expect a five or six point swing, but eighteen?? Explain that away.

To this season. City won their last two games with very dodgy decisions. Sterlings goal was offside. It wasnt a penalty in the previous game. 4 points accrued? Maybe not, but it went their way. Kompany should have been red carded vs Liverpool. But no. Then look at last Sunday at Liverpool. Burnleys goal? Was the linesman actually there? VVD was clattered on five occasions that I counted in aerial duels. No free kick no yellow cards. No penalty for a blatant hand ball. But they even out the rational amongst us reckon. No, they fucking dont. And yes we get the odd decision. Game changers? Dont think so.

And bias exists in Europe, where the likes of Real Madrid are allowed away murder. 2017 CL final, Ramos does not produce a urine sample. No problem, move on.
2018 CL Final Ramos assaults Salah. No problem. Move on. But maybe that didnt happen? We made it up.

Back to the PL....
The ongoing tedious debate on Salah 'diving'. Kane goes over like a drunk ballerina and its not mentioned. Salah is demonised by the sagely hacks and some former pros like Shearer that should know better.
Refs are analysed to the hilt and yet poor decisions concerning Liverpool are brushed over.

Bias exists because of agendas and influences. Calling people conspiracy theorists and making smug comments doesnt make the uncomfortable truth go away.
Why on earth did that study include deflected goals? I can see the argument about bad decisions costing teams points but deflected goals? That seems bizarre to factor those in. That is arguably bad luck but not evidence of poor decisions by officials....or am I missing something?
 
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Bonus

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I can remember times when it was suggested that referees wouldnt give decisions against us at Anfield,
specially at the Kop End.

During those times, fans of other clubs, probably thought like some posters on here think the now.

Personally, i dont think there is a conspiracy or anything against us,
for me its more like a lot a bad decision been made,
and some referees not wanting to make 50/50 calls against big teams, and letting more than they should go
 

sms1986

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Anyway
I dont believe there is a conspiracy at the highest level to stop us winning the league.
But.....bias exists against us and has done for a while now. Whether its overt or hidden, its there, and it is, in my view primarily down to the Murdoch influence in football, with SKY being an extension of his empire. Since his rag was hammered following their lies, his media influences had Liverpool in their sights. But the distaste for Liverpool went back a bit further. The European ban following Heysel had some clubs take the knives out for LFC. And that is probably engendered in their culture since. The ban hurt Liverpool more than the rest, but its still rankles with some clubs that they could have played in Europe but for LFC.
Bias against us exists, sure, but it also exists against a lot of other clubs. Bias towards us a big club also exists in the same way bias against smaller clubs exists.

Then SKY invented football, resurrected Man Utd, and put LFC in their place. So all was well with the world.
Man United grew stronger because of Ferguson, as much as we hate what he did for United he is one of the greatest managers in football history. What if Klopp does the same for us as he appears to be doing, is that proof that there's a conspiracy to put us back on top?

Whenever LFC raised their heads something was flung at them. Rafa's rant haunted us. He told the truth but SKY made him look a bit foolish. Fergie called Suarez a diver. So he is a diver. The Evra situation, badly handled by the club but the word of a serial liar leads to a ban for Suarez? If it was Lampard or Terry in Suarez place the FA might have told Evra to fuck off, but the die had been cast for Suarez. One of the best players to grace the league was never loved by the media, despite his obvious brilliance. Why? Because Fergie said he was a cheat. And SKY agreed.
What was said when we had that successful 00/01 season with Houllier? What was said after we won the Champions League in 2005?

Sky and the rest of the media treated Suarez that way because he was a great way for them to get clicks/attention. He was already known as someone who bit an opponent before he joined us.

Research and stats from last season of an 18 point swing in favour of Man Utd against Liverpool due to incorrect decisions. The facts smugly derided by the same people who use stats to support other arguments? I was asked if Stoke had grounds for complaint, as they lost points to bad decisions. But this isn't a Stoke forum?
If the study had no empirical value, if it was handwritten on a cigarette packet you could expect a five or six point swing, but eighteen?? Explain that away.
The study included deflections off goalposts, it wasn't 100% due to decisions from referees.

How convenient - this isn't a Stoke forum so we don't have to address the fact that Stoke were relegated when it should have been Huddersfield. I bet you if that study gets done every season, it's usually a smaller club who are the unluckiest team.

To this season. City won their last two games with very dodgy decisions. Sterlings goal was offside. It wasnt a penalty in the previous game. 4 points accrued? Maybe not, but it went their way. Kompany should have been red carded vs Liverpool. But no. Then look at last Sunday at Liverpool. Burnleys goal? Was the linesman actually there? VVD was clattered on five occasions that I counted in aerial duels. No free kick no yellow cards. No penalty for a blatant hand ball. But they even out the rational amongst us reckon. No, they fucking dont. And yes we get the odd decision. Game changers? Dont think so.
I don't deny that refs are incompetent, but every fan base can point to decisions for other teams that they thought were dodgy.

And bias exists in Europe, where the likes of Real Madrid are allowed away murder. 2017 CL final, Ramos does not produce a urine sample. No problem, move on.
2018 CL Final Ramos assaults Salah. No problem. Move on. But maybe that didnt happen? We made it up.
I would say that's bias towards Real but not necessarily bias only towards us. It would be bias against anyone Real were playing.

Back to the PL....
The ongoing tedious debate on Salah 'diving'. Kane goes over like a drunk ballerina and its not mentioned. Salah is demonised by the sagely hacks and some former pros like Shearer that should know better.
Refs are analysed to the hilt and yet poor decisions concerning Liverpool are brushed over.
This is the media clickbaiting - it's clearly a better story if they can talk about Salah "diving" than Kane doing it.

Bias exists because of agendas and influences. Calling people conspiracy theorists and making smug comments doesnt make the uncomfortable truth go away.
Yes, bias exists but as I've said, it exists for and against every club in one way or another. I know you don't go on their forums, but if you did, you would see City fans, United fans etc. all claiming bias against their own clubs. All saying that the referees treat them the worst.
 

Barnestormer

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Indeed, bias is endemic and part of the norm of football and any competition, conspiracy and corruption, though warts on its arse, are rare but not outright fictions either. This is the problem, those that believe everything is a conspiracy, and those that believe conspiracies do not exist, well done you amoebas. Your government relies upon you. The truth however is far more valuable.
 

Quicksand

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Why on earth did that study include deflected goals? I can see the argument about bad decisions costing teams points but deflected goals? That seems bizarre to factor those in. That is arguably bad luck but not evidence of poor decisions by officials....or am I missing something?
Yes
The rest of my post. Focus on one thing?
 

Quicksand

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@sms1986 You are only arguing what you have argued before. The debate was only elongated and brought to other threads because it was clever to take the piss out of anyone who expressed the view that bias exists.

@jaffod has been saying for ages about City and FFP. Now it seems the FA might have to investigate them. If they are found guilty, which the evidence suggests they should, the people who denigrated his view will be all over the news with delight. But @jaffod was correct all along. And the posters who derided him wont even admit it.
 

sms1986

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@sms1986 You are only arguing what you have argued before. The debate was only elongated and brought to other threads because it was clever to take the piss out of anyone who expressed the view that bias exists.
Aren't you also just arguing what you've argued before? I've said before that this subject never goes anywhere because nobody ever changes their mind.
 

Scott Jones

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Why has citeh's behaviour been somewhat ignored,most of their earnings is boomerang money,they send a bloke out through the front door with millions of pounds of their own money and it comes back through the backdoor as 'sponsorship money',fucking ridiculous.
 

Kopstar

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@sms1986 You are only arguing what you have argued before. The debate was only elongated and brought to other threads because it was clever to take the piss out of anyone who expressed the view that bias exists.

@jaffod has been saying for ages about City and FFP. Now it seems the FA might have to investigate them. If they are found guilty, which the evidence suggests they should, the people who denigrated his view will be all over the news with delight. But @jaffod was correct all along. And the posters who derided him wont even admit it.
Is breaching FFP and then being punished for it a conspiracy theory?
 

Barnestormer

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conspiracy
/kənˈspɪrəsi/
noun

  1. a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
    "a conspiracy to destroy the government"
    synonyms:plot, scheme, stratagem, plan, machination, cabal, intrigue, palace intrigue; More



    • the action of plotting or conspiring.
      "they were cleared of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice"
      synonyms:plotting, collusion, intrigue, connivance, machination, colla
 

Quicksand

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I don't think I've ever seen a single post on here claiming that City haven't been cheating their way past FFP for years... I mean, they've even been found guilty of it before. What it isn't, though, is a conspiracy.
Who said it is?
My point us, thus far they have not been punished. Why are they not being punished?
 

Scott Jones

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FilthyBloke

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But city have been punished. Whether it needs to be harsher is up to debate.
Personally, I think if you break the rules to gain an unfair advantage you should be kicked out of the competitions who’s rules you are breaking.
Strip them of titles.
Relegate them.
Lance Armstrong cheated and was banned and had titles stripped.
Juventus were relegated because of cheating.

Fining a bank robber £500 but letting him keep what he stole is no deterrent at all.

Play by the rules or get out.
 

sms1986

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Hopefully they get a bigger fine/punishment this time, I know some will say they won’t get punished but if they do it will likely be much bigger than last time.
 

FilthyBloke

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Hopefully they get a bigger fine/punishment this time, I know some will say they won’t get punished but if they do it will likely be much bigger than last time.
But they have still gained an advantage. Money is no object to them. They will pay the fine and then go and spend £500m in the next transfer window anyway.
 
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