Conspiracy? Bias? Dumb luck? Why do LFC get shit decisions?

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sms1986

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He was never bestowed a Knighthood. He won 3 European Cups. He was the greatest manager of his time. It is a disgrace that he was overlooked.
So you can't possibly consider the fact that maybe he refused? He was the greatest manager of his time, that is for sure, but at the same time he was very much a man of the people.
 

Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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I agree biases exist against Liverpool as I have agreed many times in this thread, but I don't think Liverpool are biased against more so than any other club or city. A lot of the bias against the city is general anti-working class bias.

Are you taking the micky or just being deliberately obtuse?
I was going to ask if you're from the States as this would explain why you are maybe not fully understanding of how Liverpool the City is viewed in the UK but you are from Preston.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Someone said I had very "all or nothing" views earlier on in the thread, but I think that applies more to you. You really believe that every single dubious decision that has gone our way was due to a mistake?

Every fanbase thinks they're the worst off.
No what you are putting out is an all or nothing stance. Your reasoning being we have had at least one bad call in our favour so we can't question ALL the bad calls negatively against us. Another example of it with you is that because there appears to be at least one fan of each club that believes his club is the most biased against then that appears to be all the evidence you will ever need to declare that ALL clubs must be biased against and nobody can claim to be the most biased against. You stick to that stance without any exploration of reason for the creation of bias behind the claims of other fans, without examples of evidence from other fans, in the face of reasoning of the creation of bias against us and against examples of evidence provided to you. You are now at the stage where opinion of an unknown number of fans of other clubs (of unknown levels of level headedness) matters more to you on the evidence scale than page after page of reasoned discussion and evidence put forward to you by half a dozen level headed fans of your own club. Why?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Stop feeding the troll
Really starting to believe this is the only explanation at this stage. Never known a Liverpool fan to argue so hard based on nothing but the opinions of some fans of other clubs.
 

sms1986

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No what you are putting out is an all or nothing stance. Your reasoning being we have had at least one bad call in our favour so we can't question ALL the bad calls negatively against us.
I'm not saying that the bad calls can't be questioned, I'm saying that we get dubious decisions in our favour. That being said, the penalty was 100% a penalty, my point regarding it was a reply to Quicksand.

Another example of it with you is that because there appears to be at least one fan of each club that believes his club is the most biased against then that appears to be all the evidence you will ever need to declare that ALL clubs must be biased against and nobody can claim to be the most biased against.
All clubs are biased against to some extent, and biased for to some extent. If we are the most biased against, then we are, but without looking at the decisions going against other clubs, we don't know for sure. The study from last season was only one season and you could easily say that Stoke were the most biased against, but they aren't a big club so it wasn't clickbaity enough.

You stick to that stance without any exploration of reason for the creation of bias behind the claims of other fans, without examples of evidence from other fans, in the face of reasoning of the creation of bias against us and against examples of evidence provided to you. You are now at the stage where opinion of an unknown number of fans of other clubs (of unknown levels of level headedness) matters more to you on the evidence scale than page after page of reasoned discussion and evidence put forward to you by half a dozen level headed fans of your own club. Why?
Their opinion doesn't matter more to me at all, bias against their clubs doesn't matter to me either. We can't even know much of the time whether a bad decision was made due to bias, incompetence or a mixture of both.
 

sms1986

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Really starting to believe this is the only explanation at this stage. Never known a Liverpool fan to argue so hard based on nothing but the opinions of some fans of other clubs.
I don't care about their actual opinions, my view is that decisions made for/against a team are either correct, due to bias, due to incompetence or due to both bias and incompetence. I don't even disagree with your "side" that much, I know that bias exists against us, I just also know that it exists for us and for/against other teams.
 

sms1986

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Circumstantial evidence. He accepted an OBE. What does that indicate? That he didn't accept or want a Knighthood or he wasn't offered one. Your googling would suggest he wasn't offered one while alive as they can't give one posthumously.
You first say that he could have refused or not wanted one - I never said that he definitely didn't want a knighthood, just that he might not have wanted one - but in the next sentence you assume that he wasn't offered one. What I see when googling is some of our fans wanting him to be knighted for obvious reasons, but I can't find anything that says he specifically wanted a knighthood. He might have been perfectly content with an OBE.
 

Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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You first say that he could have refused or not wanted one - I never said that he definitely didn't want a knighthood, just that he might not have wanted one - but in the next sentence you assume that he wasn't offered one. What I see when googling is some of our fans wanting him to be knighted for obvious reasons, but I can't find anything that says he specifically wanted a knighthood. He might have been perfectly content with an OBE.
Whatever!
 

Quicksand

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You first say that he could have refused or not wanted one - I never said that he definitely didn't want a knighthood, just that he might not have wanted one - but in the next sentence you assume that he wasn't offered one. What I see when googling is some of our fans wanting him to be knighted for obvious reasons, but I can't find anything that says he specifically wanted a knighthood. He might have been perfectly content with an OBE.
Look, I am asking you to please stop this unnecessary trolling, on a point you clearly know nothing about.
Read Bob Paisleys story, learn about the essence of the man before you go baiting people with illogical argument. Bob Paisley was not awarded a Knighthood, nor was he offered it. The people behind the campaign for a posthumous award knew more about his choices than you do. Had they ever imagined that he would have refused, they would not have chosen to pursue the award.
You started this nonsense in answer to my reply to my response to a post by @Hope in your heart in an attempt to distract from your Fulham penalty diatribe. Its now childish, stop the baiting, you know what you are at.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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You first say that he could have refused or not wanted one - I never said that he definitely didn't want a knighthood, just that he might not have wanted one - but in the next sentence you assume that he wasn't offered one. What I see when googling is some of our fans wanting him to be knighted for obvious reasons, but I can't find anything that says he specifically wanted a knighthood. He might have been perfectly content with an OBE.
I hope you take this suggestion as an olive branch. You've now got so far into this argument that you are now taking such a ridiculous stance to avoid being wrong it's getting embarrassing. I suggest you walk away from the thread for a bit. I really do. The level of evidence you are asking for to accept black is black and white is white is just plain old daft now.
 

sms1986

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Look, I am asking you to please stop this unnecessary trolling, on a point you clearly know nothing about.
Read Bob Paisleys story, learn about the essence of the man before you go baiting people with illogical argument. Bob Paisley was not awarded a Knighthood, nor was he offered it. The people behind the campaign for a posthumous award knew more about his choices than you do. Had they ever imagined that he would have refused, they would not have chosen to pursue the award.
You started this nonsense in answer to my reply to my response to a post by @Hope in your heart in an attempt to distract from your Fulham penalty diatribe. Its now childish, stop the baiting, you know what you are at.
That's fair enough, although we don't know why he was never offered one.

I don't know what my "Fulham penalty diatribe" is, but can you at least stop trying to paint me as a troll? We disagree but that doesn't mean I'm trolling.
 

sms1986

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I hope you take this suggestion as an olive branch. You've now got so far into this argument that you are now taking such a ridiculous stance to avoid being wrong it's getting embarrassing. I suggest you walk away from the thread for a bit. I really do. The level of evidence you are asking for to accept black is black and white is white is just plain old daft now.
Weren't you just thinking that I was a troll earlier on in this thread?

Black is black and white is white, but what we're talking about is grey, in my opinion, because unless you can prove whether a bad decision against us was bias or incompetence, we can't know.
 

Quicksand

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That's fair enough, although we don't know why he was never offered one.

I don't know what my "Fulham penalty diatribe" is, but can you at least stop trying to paint me as a troll? We disagree but that doesn't mean I'm trolling.
No, your response on Bob Paisley was looking for reaction. No need for that. Why was he not offered a knighthood? Bobby Charlton was, Matt Busby was, Alf Ramsay was.....why not anyone from Liverpool until Dalglish, years after when he made an immeasurable contribution to society. Think about responding to this. The answer isnt on Blue Moon, its in the context of what @Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend has posted concerning being from, or involved in the fabric of the club and city.
Your use of our penalty against Fulham as proof of bias for Licerpool is nonsensical. Thats what I meant. But you know that.
 

sms1986

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No, your response on Bob Paisley was looking for reaction. No need for that. Why was he not offered a knighthood? Bobby Charlton was, Matt Busby was, Alf Ramsay was.....why not anyone from Liverpool until Dalglish, years after when he made an immeasurable contribution to society. Think about responding to this. The answer isnt on Blue Moon, its in the context of what @Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend has posted concerning being from, or involved in the fabric of the club and city.
Then what has changed? Why was Kenny given a knighthood and not the others?

Your use of our penalty against Fulham as proof of bias for Liverpool is nonsensical. Thats what I meant. But you know that.
You are fully aware of what I was talking about when I mentioned the Fulham penalty. I was responding to your post saying that we don't get decisions that affect or determine a result when City do. Fair enough, you meant dubious decisions (which we get ourselves sometimes, all clubs do) but it wasn't clear at first.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Then what has changed? Why was Kenny given a knighthood and not the others?



You are fully aware of what I was talking about when I mentioned the Fulham penalty. I was responding to your post saying that we don't get decisions that affect or determine a result when City do. Fair enough, you meant dubious decisions (which we get ourselves sometimes, all clubs do) but it wasn't clear at first.
Look mate you're resorting to your all or nothing statements again. I don't get it. One (one out of all our mega successful managers) gets a knighthood (years overdue) so there can't be a bias against giving LFC managers knighthood? If this is the level you are at with your demands of proof then bias can never be proven as there will never be concrete proof of bias, especially unconscious bias which the people displaying it may not even be aware of it themselves!
 

sms1986

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Look mate you're resorting to your all or nothing statements again. I don't get it. One (one out of all our mega successful managers) gets a knighthood (years overdue) so there can't be a bias against giving LFC managers knighthood? If this is the level you are at with your demands of proof then bias can never be proven as there will never be concrete proof of bias, especially unconscious bias which the people displaying it may not even be aware of it themselves!
Where exactly did I say there couldn't be a bias against giving our managers knighthoods? I asked why Dalglish had been given one and not the others if there is such a bias.
 

Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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Look mate you're resorting to your all or nothing statements again. I don't get it. One (one out of all our mega successful managers) gets a knighthood (years overdue) so there can't be a bias against giving LFC managers knighthood? If this is the level you are at with your demands of proof then bias can never be proven as there will never be concrete proof of bias, especially unconscious bias which the people displaying it may not even be aware of it themselves!
He even said Liverpool the city wasn't any more biased against than any other cities. You both are wasting your time.
 

Mascot88

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She may have been urged to but crucially she didn't choose to do so for which she gets little credit....................instead she appointed Michael Heseltine and the regeneration programme was launched. The city owes a great debt to that man and I for one will always be grateful to him.

He's a bit of a hero for me. This sums it all up.

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/opinion/michael-heseltine-was-there-in-liverpools-hour-of-need/10018378.article

This is down to his vision https://www.liverpoollep.org/news/tourism-figures-continue-grow/

Latest figures show Liverpool City Region’s Visitor Economy is now worth £4.3bn, last year welcomed over 62m visitors to the region and supports over 51,500 jobs.
The story I heard was that Heseltine pushed for this, and had to convince Thatcher.
 

sms1986

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Where did you say something when asking a question that means something?
What?

Is there an explanation for why Dalglish got a knighthood but none of the others did? It's a question, I'm not asking to prove you wrong or right, I'm asking to find out whether you or anyone else can explain it.
 
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