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Conspiracy? Bias? Dumb luck? Why do LFC get shit decisions?

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lfc.eddie

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Today he's wearing his 17/18 home shirt with Frankie and number 11 (for Mo his favourite player). He gets al three strips each year from either myself, his Dad or his Uncle Gary.
You must be a very proud grandpa, and father. You've brought up your son well to know who his kid should support.... unlike some I've seen. Well done sir, well done.
 

Hope in your heart

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You must be a very proud grandpa, and father. You've brought up your son well to know who his kid should support.... unlike some I've seen. Well done sir, well done.
As a kid, despite my best efforts, my eldest son wouldn't want to support LFC, no matter what. To be fair, it was during the disappointing end of Rafa's time with us, then Uncle Woy, King Kenny's disappointing second spell and Rodger's great educational achievements with us...

I let him be what he wanted to be at the time, which is to watch the best European clubs: Barca when they were at their best under Guardiola, to cheer on Dortmund when coached by Klopp, I even let him 'support' the red mancs when they were winning title after title with Ferguson (yeah I know...). But I was always trusting that in the end, common sense would prevail. I offered him some Liverpool shirts, and as he grew up, it became a bit of a joke between us. He offered me a shirt too recently (what goes around comes around!), and then we went together to Anfield, which was a great experience for us both.

Now he's almost adult, and he truly has come around. LFC is his club now, even though the jokes are still flying around at times. We often watch the games and cheer together. It's like for our first title in ages when it will finally come along: the long wait makes it even more of an enjoyment for me now that it has happened. :well done:
 

Barnestormer

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The £40 per shirt less the cost of the shirt deal is profit. How much are we looking for from our next shirt supplier? £60m per season? There's no direct profit from shirt sales until they've sold 1.5m shirts.

Let's say the club get £5 a shirt? We'd need to sell approximately 1.6m shirts before we could pay for 'free agent', Danny Ings. Or the total ticket revenue from nearly three Anfield sell-outs.

Our entire revenue from shirt sales alone couldn't cover the fees we pay agents.

Shirt sales? If you want to focus on costs to supporters that's piddling.
I know there is no actual standard but, is this in the remit of standard type deal with shirt manufacturers, or do we have a poor deal, or either not sell enough? Only I seem to 'remember' Barca and Real et al, make shit loads from this? Or is that a myth too?
 



Quicksand

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SKY running the Gerrard slip as second story and questioning Klopp on it today. How does it effect Sundays game?
One of the best players to emerge in the world in the last 20 odd years and they choose to treat him like this. Disregard his achievements for one moment.
Do they show super hero Shearer attempting to maim Neil Lennon?
Or when Utd play City will they show Keanes assault on Haaland?
No
We are top of the league, standing on two fronts as a possible barrier to the glorious quadruple. Will they celebrate the brilliance of Klopp and the team? No. Rehash an unfortunate moment from a true legends career.
 

lfc.eddie

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I know there is no actual standard but, is this in the remit of standard type deal with shirt manufacturers, or do we have a poor deal, or either not sell enough? Only I seem to 'remember' Barca and Real et al, make shit loads from this? Or is that a myth too?
I know this has nothing to do with the thread at all, but this is something I know from reading a few contracts under former and current Premier League club that I had privilege to have access to (well the Malaysian owned ones of course). The agreement on shirt sales in the premise of the club store, or any merchandise usually make Liverpool FC as a club, a sales outlet and bulk of the revenue goes back to the manufacturer/sponsor. The split depends on the size of the club and the amount given as shirt sponsor fee, usually be around 10-15% for the club to keep and the balance goes back to the manufacturer. Just like any other sales agreement between retailers and brand owners. So if the shirt is £50, the club sees around £5-7.50 back, and the rest New Balance gets it, same for that Levi's stuff and so on.
 

Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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As a kid, despite my best efforts, my eldest son wouldn't want to support LFC, no matter what. To be fair, it was during the disappointing end of Rafa's time with us, then Uncle Woy, King Kenny's disappointing second spell and Rodger's great educational achievements with us...

I let him be what he wanted to be at the time, which is to watch the best European clubs: Barca when they were at their best under Guardiola, to cheer on Dortmund when coached by Klopp, I even let him 'support' the red mancs when they were winning title after title with Ferguson (yeah I know...). But I was always trusting that in the end, common sense would prevail. I offered him some Liverpool shirts, and as he grew up, it became a bit of a joke between us. He offered me a shirt too recently (what goes around comes around!), and then we went together to Anfield, which was a great experience for us both.

Now he's almost adult, and he truly has come around. LFC is his club now, even though the jokes are still flying around at times. We often watch the games and cheer together. It's like for our first title in ages when it will finally come along: the long wait makes it even more of an enjoyment for me now that it has happened. :well done:
My brother had a problem with my youngest nephew. He lived near Wigan. So one day my nephew (he was about 7 at the time) comes home and says ´Dad, I´m going to be a man utd supporter from now on.´´ So my brother says ok let´s go upstairs to your room. They go upstairs and my brother gets out a suitcase and starts packing all my nephew´s clothes into it. My nephew says where are wegoing dad? My brothers says you´re leaving home. My nephew starts crying and asks why. My brother says because in this house we are Liverpool fans and you´re a manure fan now. So you can´t stay here anymore. My nephew thinks for a second and responds , ok, I´ll carry on being a LFC fan. My brother starts unpacking his clothes. True story. That was 20 years ago. He´s a mad LFC fan but we like to tease him from time to time. I thought my brother a very responsible dad. Who knows what would have happened to my nephew.

My nephews favourite chant became Ooh aah Cantona! He plays like a woman and he wears a bra!
 

Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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SKY running the Gerrard slip as second story and questioning Klopp on it today. How does it effect Sundays game?
One of the best players to emerge in the world in the last 20 odd years and they choose to treat him like this. Disregard his achievements for one moment.
Do they show super hero Shearer attempting to maim Neil Lennon?
Or when Utd play City will they show Keanes assault on Haaland?
No
We are top of the league, standing on two fronts as a possible barrier to the glorious quadruple. Will they celebrate the brilliance of Klopp and the team? No. Rehash an unfortunate moment from a true legends career.
Plenty of our own fan base don´t appreciate what an all time great Stevie G was. At least on forums anyway. They fall for the old well he wasn´t very tactical line. Like they know what he was being asked to do.

For me Stevie G would be LFC´s no.1 if he had won more. He would be vying with King Kenny. As it is he scored in every cup final he played in. Fantastic player. Scholes, Lampard, Keane, Viera, great players but non could do what Stevie G could. Of course IMHO.
 



Hope in your heart

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My brother had a problem with my youngest nephew. He lived near Wigan. So one day my nephew (he was about 7 at the time) comes home and says ´Dad, I´m going to be a man utd supporter from now on.´´ So my brother says ok let´s go upstairs to your room. They go upstairs and my brother gets out a suitcase and starts packing all my nephew´s clothes into it. My nephew says where are wegoing dad? My brothers says you´re leaving home. My nephew starts crying and asks why. My brother says because in this house we are Liverpool fans and you´re a manure fan now. So you can´t stay here anymore. My nephew thinks for a second and responds , ok, I´ll carry on being a LFC fan. My brother starts unpacking his clothes. True story. That was 20 years ago. He´s a mad LFC fan but we like to tease him from time to time. I thought my brother a very responsible dad. Who knows what would have happened to my nephew.

My nephews favourite chant became Ooh aah Cantona! He plays like a woman and he wears a bra!
Well I guess that there are different ways leading to the same end-result then... lol
 

Barnestormer

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SKY running the Gerrard slip as second story and questioning Klopp on it today. How does it effect Sundays game?
One of the best players to emerge in the world in the last 20 odd years and they choose to treat him like this. Disregard his achievements for one moment.
Do they show super hero Shearer attempting to maim Neil Lennon?
Or when Utd play City will they show Keanes assault on Haaland?
No
We are top of the league, standing on two fronts as a possible barrier to the glorious quadruple. Will they celebrate the brilliance of Klopp and the team? No. Rehash an unfortunate moment from a true legends career.
They're just fucking glue sniffers; e-poxy.
 

jaffod

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Interesting little comparison.

Manchester United have been awarded 8 penalties at Old Trafford in PL matches so far this season. The ones they have scored (7) have resulted in them gaining 10 points.
Liverpool have been awarded 8 penalties at Anfield in PL matches since November 2016. We have gained 0 points from the ones scored. You need to go back to 29th November 2015 for the last time we gained points from a penalty awarded at Anfield. That's 3 1/2 years ago.

Just think about that. 3 and a half years since we gained points from a home penalty yet Manchester United have already gained 10 just this season. Must be because they spend so much more time attacking than we do.

It's all down to referees not wanting to be influenced by the crowd at the big clubs' stadiums, although that doesn't seem to apply at Old Trafford.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Interesting little comparison.

Manchester United have been awarded 8 penalties at Old Trafford in PL matches so far this season. The ones they have scored (7) have resulted in them gaining 10 points.
Liverpool have been awarded 8 penalties at Anfield in PL matches since November 2016. We have gained 0 points from the ones scored. You need to go back to 29th November 2015 for the last time we gained points from a penalty awarded at Anfield. That's 3 1/2 years ago.

Just think about that. 3 and a half years since we gained points from a home penalty yet Manchester United have already gained 10 just this season. Must be because they spend so much more time attacking than we do.

It's all down to referees not wanting to be influenced by the crowd at the big clubs' stadiums, although that doesn't seem to apply at Old Trafford.
Said it till I'm blue in the face. Nobody in the media seems to give a shit if referees give a decision incorrectly to one of the other big sides, especially United. But an incorrect decision against one of the other big sides is raked over and analysed to death, especially against United. It seems to happen the opposite for us. Incorrect calls against us get no more than a passing mention. But 3 days later you'll still see images of Milner receiving a pass in an offside position in the lead up to a goal for us. The officials careers and livelihoods are literally at the mercy of the media reaction to mistakes. There was an article on BBC which I posted in which an ex ref talks about how important media reaction is. Nobody need a to sit down and consciously plan things out. If you enter the game with a feeling in the back of your mind it'll determine how sure you have to be or don't have to be before you make the call.
 



Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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Said it till I'm blue in the face. Nobody in the media seems to give a shit if referees give a decision incorrectly to one of the other big sides, especially United. But an incorrect decision against one of the other big sides is raked over and analysed to death, especially against United. It seems to happen the opposite for us. Incorrect calls against us get no more than a passing mention. But 3 days later you'll still see images of Milner receiving a pass in an offside position in the lead up to a goal for us. The officials careers and livelihoods are literally at the mercy of the media reaction to mistakes. There was an article on BBC which I posted in which an ex ref talks about how important media reaction is. Nobody need a to sit down and consciously plan things out. If you enter the game with a feeling in the back of your mind it'll determine how sure you have to be or don't have to be before you make the call.
Oh Jaffod you can make that 12 penos and 13 points won.

My opinion is they are actively looking to give penos to manure but looking to see if it´s possible to wave penos away for LFC.

I´ve also seen blatant incidents not even mentioned in the post match analysis when it favours LFC. Now that has to be a planned narrative. what would be the reason not to mention a talking point? In my opinion bias.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I´ve also seen blatant incidents not even mentioned in the post match analysis when it favours LFC. Now that has to be a planned narrative. what would be the reason not to mention a talking point? In my opinion bias.
You'll watch a game and a player will get a penalty that's clearly a wrong call against us. There will be no or almost no mention of it, they'll focus on other "talking points"! Then our next game Suarez or Salah will be fouled but they'll go over it again and again trying to show how the player is a diver for 'making the most of it'!
 

Quicksand

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Interesting little comparison.

Manchester United have been awarded 8 penalties at Old Trafford in PL matches so far this season. The ones they have scored (7) have resulted in them gaining 10 points.
Liverpool have been awarded 8 penalties at Anfield in PL matches since November 2016. We have gained 0 points from the ones scored. You need to go back to 29th November 2015 for the last time we gained points from a penalty awarded at Anfield. That's 3 1/2 years ago.

Just think about that. 3 and a half years since we gained points from a home penalty yet Manchester United have already gained 10 just this season. Must be because they spend so much more time attacking than we do.

It's all down to referees not wanting to be influenced by the crowd at the big clubs' stadiums, although that doesn't seem to apply at Old Trafford.
To me this set of statistics equates to evidence.
I think the expression "They all even out over the season" should be removed from debates.
 



Quicksand

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Counterpoint: United are shite and are more likely to be in a losing/drawing position at the time they get a penalty.
Why?
How about looking at things at face value, without having to analyse how equity exists in this situation.
The data given by @jaffod speaks for itself, but you have to look for balance where it doesnt exist.
 

Prolix

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Why?
How about looking at things at face value, without having to analyse how equity exists in this situation.
The data given by @jaffod speaks for itself, but you have to look for balance where it doesnt exist.
It's called a null hypothesis. If you only look for how things support your own theory, then everything will support that theory.

(Appropriately, this is called "cognitive bias".)

If you don't like that I raise plausible counterpoints to be addressed, you are free to place me on your ignore list. Responses like you gave do nothing to advance the discussion.
 

Quicksand

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It's called a null hypothesis. If you only look for how things support your own theory, then everything will support that theory.

(Appropriately, this is called "cognitive bias".)

If you don't like that I raise plausible counterpoints to be addressed, you are free to place me on your ignore list. Responses like you gave do nothing to advance the discussion.
I refuse to use ignore button. Refuge, for people who dislike others views. Your view is that it is you provide a plausible counterpoint. But you fail to provide proof of that counterpoint, despite looking for proof on any points raised that you disagree with. Your hypothesis that the world is an equitable place is constantly challenged and disproved.
 

Prolix

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I refuse to use ignore button. Refuge, for people who dislike others views. Your view is that it is you provide a plausible counterpoint. But you fail to provide proof of that counterpoint, despite looking for proof on any points raised that you disagree with. Your hypothesis that the world is an equitable place is constantly challenged and disproved.
1. That isn't my hypothesis.
2. Nothing has been proved or disproved either way, other than in your head.
 



Prolix

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Point 2 is a nice little condescending insult.
What's condescending is your continual attitude that anyone who questions your perspective is somehow being unreasonable, irrational, and ignoring your incontrovertible evidence. (Hint: it is not.)

Like I said, I would rather you just not respond to my posts if you're going to mischaracterize them (which you are very quick to accuse others of doing to you). At least @Anfield rd Dreamer parried my observation.

You may not find the ignore function useful, but I will be availing myself of it now. :well done:
 

Quicksand

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What's condescending is your continual attitude that anyone who questions your perspective is somehow being unreasonable, irrational, and ignoring your incontrovertible evidence. (Hint: it is not.)

Like I said, I would rather you just not respond to my posts if you're going to mischaracterize them (which you are very quick to accuse others of doing to you). At least @Anfield rd Dreamer parried my observation.

You may not find the ignore function useful, but I will be availing myself of it now. :well done:
Hopefully he is ignoring me. He has got me wrong. The evidence I have quoted comes from forum members who I respect, and who are capable of arguing in a constructive manner. The counter argument, or illogical attempts at questioning this evidence is seen by the likes of Prolix as irrefutable. (Hint: It is not)
 

Hope in your heart

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Interesting little comparison.

Manchester United have been awarded 8 penalties at Old Trafford in PL matches so far this season. The ones they have scored (7) have resulted in them gaining 10 points.
Liverpool have been awarded 8 penalties at Anfield in PL matches since November 2016. We have gained 0 points from the ones scored. You need to go back to 29th November 2015 for the last time we gained points from a penalty awarded at Anfield. That's 3 1/2 years ago.

Just think about that. 3 and a half years since we gained points from a home penalty yet Manchester United have already gained 10 just this season. Must be because they spend so much more time attacking than we do.

It's all down to referees not wanting to be influenced by the crowd at the big clubs' stadiums, although that doesn't seem to apply at Old Trafford.
I think it's interesting indeed. However, I'd want to see how it pans out over a larger time-frame. Can you provide us these stats over the last ten years for instance? If it turns out that there are similar stats than over the time-frame you mentioned, then you're definitely up to something.
 

jaffod

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I think it's interesting indeed. However, I'd want to see how it pans out over a larger time-frame. Can you provide us these stats over the last ten years for instance? If it turns out that there are similar stats than over the time-frame you mentioned, then you're definitely up to something.
It would be interesting to me because I feel it's something that has become pretty stark over the last few seasons, so if the figures over 10 years evened themselves out it would be evidence to me that there has been a shift at some point and would back up what many of us have been saying.
I wanted to compare the big 6 over the last 3 years or so and have already looked at Chelsea, Spurs and City and their results show they have had more pens and gained more points as well.
I'll have a good look later and compare it over the 10 years and see how it pans out.
 



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