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Conspiracy? Bias? Dumb luck? Why do LFC get shit decisions?

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Prolix

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If I thought someone had a reputation for being a diver it would probably influence the way I refereed an incident where that player went down in the box.
You, the trained professional?

Them, the trained circus performers?
 

James H

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If I thought someone had a reputation for being a diver it would probably influence the way I refereed an incident where that player went down in the box.
But he got the penalty.
 

James H

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Not sure what you mean?
My point is that influences doesn't alway come down to bias, there is sometimes a small matter of incompetence, which watching the premier league, is rampant in the referees. Not one of which made it to the world cup, a sure signal they are rubbish.
 






Mascot88

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MOTD absolutely disgraceful. Keown in the studio must have called Salah a diver 3 or 4 times. Banging on about 'previous' and throwing himself to the floor. Then said it was a definite penalty. There's no bias though.
You see, I thought the opposite. Both Keown and Jenas called it fair, and Jenas in particular highlighted that Salah had to go down or the ref wouldn’t give it.

Warnock was called out for contradicting himself, and both pundits were completely unequivocal that it was a cast iron pen.

The comments in here feel like trying to find something to be outraged about.
 

Kopstar

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You see, I thought the opposite. Both Keown and Jenas called it fair, and Jenas in particular highlighted that Salah had to go down or the ref wouldn’t give it.
Jenas also said something like, "look, we all know what Salah's like"... implying that it's common knowledge that he likes a dive or he goes down easily. Absolutely bollocks that he does.
 

Mascot88

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They do influence referees though. Refs will be cognisant that anything given to Salah will accrue analyisis and criticism. That has potential impact on Liverpool.
Did they influence Atkinson, who by accounts here is a biased, corrupt cunt who hates Liverpool. He had every chance to demonstrate that bias today, and yet chose not to.
 

Mascot88

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Jenas also said something like, "look, we all know what Salah's like"... implying that it's common knowledge that he likes a dive or he goes down easily. Absolutely bollocks that he does.
If he was biased against Liverpool wouldn’t he have taken Warnock’s side and called Salah a cheat? If he thinks Salah has previous, then he’s entitled to say so. It might just be his opinion.

I watched the reaction on MOTD expecting to hear then say it wasn’t a pen, but they we’re unambigious. I’m sorry, but it feels you and a few others are actively trying to be offended on this.
 

Prolix

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Did they influence Atkinson, who by accounts here is a biased, corrupt cunt who hates Liverpool. He had every chance to demonstrate that bias today, and yet chose not to.
This is my biggest issue.

Decision for Liverpool? "Stonewall. Had to be given. Couldn't not be given."
Decision against Liverpool? "Biased refereeing."

Decision for City? "They don't want us to win the league."
Decision against City? "..."

It's literally impossible to be wrong.
 



Kopstar

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If he was biased against Liverpool wouldn’t he have taken Warnock’s side and called Salah a cheat? If he thinks Salah has previous, then he’s entitled to say so. It might just be his opinion.

I watched the reaction on MOTD expecting to hear then say it wasn’t a pen, but they we’re unambigious. I’m sorry, but it feels you and a few others are actively trying to be offended on this.
Why might he think he has 'previous'. How/who do you think he has built up this reputation he in no way deserves?
 

James H

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This most recent episode is the latest in a series of high profile narratives in the media that perpetuate the myth that Salah is a diver.
Would you say the same happened to Bale? They did this a lot with him while at spurs no?
Salah does go to ground easy sometimes, I see no fault in that, but doing so is going to invite this level of analysis/criticism, sometimes they are right sometimes they are not.
 

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The problem with Salah, and the growing narrative, is he sometimes actually does go down strangely. Whether that is because he's a player that is 'all legs' and of a shorter height, is probably too complicated for the opposing observer, and less convenient. Its all in the Outsider by Albert Camus, if anyone wants to read it or take the piss. The madding crowd.......................do this sort of thing. People are not honest, mostly. They are also not honest in the points they make, are they fishhead?
That would be a fishbody, actually. Not interested in heeding the warnings not to bait?
 

Kopstar

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Would you say the same happened to Bale? They did this a lot with him while at spurs no?
Salah does go to ground easy sometimes, I see no fault in that, but doing so is going to invite this level of analysis/criticism, sometimes they are right sometimes they are not.
Bale definitely earned a reputation for diving. It was to a large degree earned. Not on the level of an Alli or Vardy but he definitely simulated contact on more than one occasion.

Salah, however, I'm genuinely struggling to think of any time he's gone down claiming a penalty without being fouled.
 

James H

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Bale definitely earned a reputation for diving. It was to a large degree earned. Not on the level of an Alli or Vardy but he definitely simulated contact on more than one occasion.

Salah, however, I'm genuinely struggling to think of any time he's gone down claiming a penalty without being fouled.
Bales is largely earned but Salah's is wholly media narrative? What about all the other non LFC players who earn the reputation? Zaha? Drogba? Ronaldo?

Salah has a tendency to go down easy when he could stay up, the Newcastle penalty is a perfect example. That little tug knocked him but he could hold off Harry Maguire, spin him and score for his second vs Leicester last year with far more contact? Now the benefits on days like today outweigh staying on his feet, pragmatically a good and clever choice, spirit of the game though? Probably not.

Vs Luiz last week, yea there was contact but not enough to give a fly a concussion never mind knock him. He saw he over ran the ball and decided to chance his arm. I have no problem with that decision but its hard to say its an outright foul. Would he go down with the same contact if through on goal?
 



Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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I didn't see BBC but I watched the game on Sky. Gary Neville and his sidekick actually said it wasn't a penalty, watched it a few times, and grudgingly accepted the defender gave the ref a decision to make.

Is anyone on this forum actually saying that wasn't a stonwall peno?

Now I made a point about Suárez earlier. I've heard people say he got treated like he did because he's foreign. I'm not having it. There's plenty of foreign players who dive and play for other teams who get off scott free. IMO it's bias against LFC. Mo Salah gets pulled, tripped, pushed and manhandled all the time. For me there is no way he should have anywhere near the reputation he's been given for going down easy.

Whether that robs us of points, has stopped us winning the league before I don't care. The only thing I am arguing is there is bias shown against LFC on a level not shown to other clubs.

I think the football authorities etc when they can, take the opportunity to stiff LFC. Suárez being a case in point.
 

James H

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I didn't see BBC but I watched the game on Sky. Gary Neville and his sidekick actually said it wasn't a penalty, watched it a few times, and grudgingly accepted the defender gave the ref a decision to make.

Is anyone on this forum actually saying that wasn't a stonwall peno?

Now I made a point about Suárez earlier. I've heard people say he got treated like he did because he's foreign. I'm not having it. There's plenty of foreign players who dive and play for other teams who get off scott free. IMO it's bias against LFC. Mo Salah gets pulled, tripped, pushed and manhandled all the time. For me there is no way he should have anywhere near the reputation he's been given for going down easy.

Whether that robs us of points, has stopped us winning the league before I don't care. The only thing I am arguing is there is bias shown against LFC on a level not shown to other clubs.

I think the football authorities etc when they can, take the opportunity to stiff LFC. Suárez being a case in point.
Salah does get pulled, tripped and man handled, perhaps thats why he has earned the penalties he has gotten despite going down easy on occasion.

No one said today wasnt a pen, but he could've stayed up if he wanted to. Just why stay up in that situation when you can win a penalty, just because you go down easy doesn't mean its not a foul. But it can add a grey area that pundits can dramatize for viewers, because Cardiff fans will say "I knew it wasn't a pen" and LFC fans will say "your obviously biased it was clearly a pen" meanwhile both sets of fans are still watching.
 



macca1970

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Bales is largely earned but Salah's is wholly media narrative? What about all the other non LFC players who earn the reputation? Zaha? Drogba? Ronaldo?

Salah has a tendency to go down easy when he could stay up, the Newcastle penalty is a perfect example. That little tug knocked him but he could hold off Harry Maguire, spin him and score for his second vs Leicester last year with far more contact? Now the benefits on days like today outweigh staying on his feet, pragmatically a good and clever choice, spirit of the game though? Probably not.

Vs Luiz last week, yea there was contact but not enough to give a fly a concussion never mind knock him. He saw he over ran the ball and decided to chance his arm. I have no problem with that decision but its hard to say its an outright foul. Would he go down with the same contact if through on goal?
Disagee with you totally there.

Salah has the tendency to stay on his feet when he could go down easily. FTFY.

No footballer is a saint. But there are degrees of the dark arts. Salah more often than not rides the challenge and tries to continue. Plenty of examples of this.

Dictionary definition of tendency: an inclination towards a particular characteristic or type of behaviour.

Now players like Ashley Young or Dele Alli perfectly fit this description, just check out the latter's yellow card count for simulation.


Pragmatism? Now i agree with you there.

What Mo has learned this season is that if he battles to stay on his feet, the ref will never give a penalty, even though by the rule book ref's are allowed to give a penalty for these types of incidents. But no ref will at all, as they will get lambasted in the press (it also introduces more of a judgement call which can be debated, whereas going to the floor means a ref is forced to make a decision rather than a non-decision), and certain manager's will cause a fuss to get the ref demoted to the lower leagues. That's why refs only blow if the player goes down. Sad but true.
 

Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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I should be a capital. Try again. lol
You sound about 12 years of age. I 'm not trying to insult you, that' s just the impression I get. If that's the case then it explains a lot of your posts.

As I said I think it was a stonewaller. The only occasion I can think of where he's gone down is actually last week against Chelsea. So I agree with that one. He was kicked but defo he could have stayed on his feet.

Now the snowflakes in here like to actually try and be so unbiased that it makes them biased.

Again, I (that's how it's done James) never said LFC don't get decisions but they have to be stonewallers. Even then it's not guaranteed.

Now James, get on google and check my spelling and punctuation.
 

Dane

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I think the nail has been hit firmly on the head here.

I totally get that not all people see the excessive bias against us that others do see.
But some, in their desperation to simply "be right" in the debate are showing signs of over bias the other way.
Prime example being one user who was in here point scoring while the rest of us were enjoying being in front in a Champions league quarter final match.

That to me says everything I need to know about them, and why I've stopped getting too involved in this thread lately.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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There's actually LFC fans that have now accepted that Salah is a bit theatrical and goes down a bit easy.

This is the sport of football people, 98% of the time a footballer goes down he doesn't actually NEED to. He can stagger and slowly regain his balance and feet, compare to the contact required to actually take a rugby player off his feet for comparison. In this sport there's no advantage in that extra effort of wrenching and straining and slowing your body down to stay on your feet so why do it?

Now Salah has this reputation despite not once hitting the deck without a foul leading to it.

Other players have sometimes had some reputation regarding diving but I only remember reputations this strong two other times recently and that was Young (who was horrifically bad, going down without contact several times per game) and Suarez (another of our players who was "theatrical" but people again struggled to find actual dives for).

Today it wasn't just Neville, and it was a cast iron penalty. But even many who grudgingly conceded that it was a penalty claim play acting on Salahs part.

This narrative has got so strong and all encompassing now even LFC fans have started to develop doubts and feel they need to refer to it in the interests of fairness. Do you think Spurs fans act that way to Kane even though he has dived without contact before? Or Chelsea fans to Hazard who again has dived without contact before? This is getting out of hand and ridiculous.

This is how media influence works. It's not some shadowy figure sitting in s darkened studio telling you night is day. It's subtle. It's why Aldo Biscardi was run off air and nearly into jail during Calciopoli for agreeing to put out a pro Juve media campaign to help influence the public and officials.

Officials are human beings. They are subjected to the same media influences as the rest of us.

In this article officials talk about the pressure from media, how high profile incidents can effect and end a career. They also talk about how they all discuss decisions together in group chats after games.


Whether intentional or not the circumstances are now there when every referee knows Salah as a player with a reputation for diving. They know the media is focused on it. They discuss it with their colleagues who are worried about their own performances in Liverpool games and they know their careers are at the mercy of media reaction to big decisions.

Soon we will have this situation again:

 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Thing is,this isn't a media conspiracy against Mo being a diver,this is a die hard Manc,who just watched his team get it's arse handed to them on a plate by Everton,trying to find any little thing to make us look bad,while his team has turned to dogshit.
It wasn't just Neville though it was both of them. The only voices to discuss and analyse a cast iron penalty for blatant manhandling made it sound like the defender was the victim. With just the audio you'd believe Salah blatantly dived after the defender made the mistake of touching him, briefly, and accidentally gave the ref a chance to give a penalty. Like the ref was some eager to please school kid desperate to give a penalty. They also made it sound like both players were pushing each other. The audio did not match the visual at all.
 



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