Conspiracy? Bias? Dumb luck? Why do LFC get shit decisions?

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Quicksand

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We have had a lot more penalties than any other team in Premier League history................even Manchester United despite their dominance.......and despite apparently SAF having the referees in his pocket :think:
Is that all you have? You came into this thread to attempt to negate everything we have said and it boils down to this?
 

Rambler

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sms1986

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I would be surprised if they were working together on this as they can barely agree on anything else and if they were working on it independently, why would Labour (even the Tory-lite version) want to harm the city and team of Liverpool?
 

RedLar

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Given that one of the main themes of this thread is the media’s anti-LFC bias, of course it’s relevant.
Yeah completely irrelevant to my point. That every other club in the land would piss themselves laughing that a 60 page plus thread such as this exists. It's never our fault.....
 

sms1986

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Because New Labour were in thrall to big business and did everything they could to suck up to media moguls and their ilk.
So why does the government need to be involved? Neither party is going against the interests of big business so why would the government need to be involved? They could just let Murdoch do what he wants without actively playing a part.
 

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What's that got to do with the assertion that the UK Government conspired to stop us winning the title which is what COG believes...
What's your reference to Labour being in government for 13 years (a period when we still didn't win the league) got to do with there being a moratorium?

Wouldn't we needed to have won the league in that period?

Yeah completely irrelevant to my point. That every other club in the land would piss themselves laughing that a 60 plus thread such as this exists. It's never our fault.....
Really? I can't believe that's what posters are reducing this to in addition to the earlier reference.

Grouping people as conspiracy theorists was bad enough.
 

Rambler

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What's your reference to Labour being in government for 13 years (a period when we still didn't win the league) got to do with there being a moratorium?

Wouldn't we needed to have won the league in that period?
Err no....just an absence of conspiring that we couldn't take advantage of. If it was just the Tory government that were in on it.....but from what I now understand he meant Labour as well so we were well and truly shafted.
 

cynicaloldgit

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So why does the government need to be involved? Neither party is going against the interests of big business so why would the government need to be involved? They could just let Murdoch do what he wants without actively playing a part.
In my opinion, the ball was set in motion under Thatcher and New Labour were too overawed by the media to intervene. Blair’s government didn’t need to actively do anything; they just let Murdoch et al continue as normal.
 

Red over the water

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That depends on your perspective. You're the only poster not to have understood, plus you could have followed the links.

A mixture, sure. Nobody's saying we only get bad decisions. But we don't get our fair share of bad decisions, not even close.
I’ll readily admit to coming late to this, so now obviously understand that coming last in a table of bad decisions means you got the most, not least! It’s inverted to the usual way tables form, with most at the top, least at the bottom, but again, I’m late to this and only skim read your post, and haven’t followed the thread closely, so guilty as charged!

Genuine question:

Has any work been done on my hypothesis that top, attacking teams would naturally get more bad decisions, as they produce a lot of action in the opposition third and opposition box? They simply force more decisions to be made, and those decisions are in a more consequential area of the pitch, so I would expect them to stick out. Has that aspect been discussed in the thread?

So, a team like ours would naturally attract a fair amount of bad decisions because we are making the ref make a lot of decisions, and some of them are bound to be bad, in a telling area of the pitch.
 
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Hope in your heart

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Summary.
This thread was created to poke fun at the "tin foil hat" people, and the fact it kept those discussions in one thread was an added bonus.
The use of conspiracy allegations all came from the side arguing against bias, with one user constantly refusing to even understand the meaning of the word. He eventually asked to be blocked from entering the thread.
Even after 60 pages, comparisons to flat earthers were still being thrown in there.

Some believe we're affected adversely more than other by bias, others dont. There will never be a middle ground agreement.

Car crash of a thread, debate became a bit more amiable when one user disappeared for a while, but no surprise to see who were waiting at the door when it was unlocked a couple of days ago.
Except that it was the other way round: it was designed to keep discussions in one thread. The fact that some decided to poke fun about other opinions, or that people interpreted it as poking fun, was a regrettable side-effect.

I appreciate this thread has become difficult to moderate. However, if you close it the same arguments will spread right across the forum into multiple threads which is the situation we had before it was opened and that's even harder to moderate. It was ruining the forum. At least now posters can be told to go to this thread.

Some people have strong views on this topic and it gives them a place to argue it out whilst others, like me, who have no interest can just ignore it. Why close it? It's run 61 pages and is the most consistently active thread on the entire forum. This is in a season where we are going for a PL and CL double. If people think the debate has run it's course then they don't have to contribute and the thread will die a natural death.
Yeah, that is a concern. If this discussion spills over the rest of the forum, we'll have no choice but reopening it or create a new one. But on the other hand, the matter has been discussed to death, and apart from personal arguments in the last days, there isn't much in it anymore. Hence us thinking we can close it. But we could be proven wrong about that.

I'd request everyone who takes interest in this to reiterate his/her arguments if it's his/her wish, to take the counter-arguments in without getting drawn into pointless point-scoring. Then, we'll close it, everyone knowing where the others stand on the issue.
 

RedLar

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Really? I can't believe that's what posters are reducing this to in addition to the earlier reference.

Grouping people as conspiracy theorists was bad enough.
Again, i replied to a specific post, where the poster openly admitted to believing in a government conspiracy against our club. At the same time, I responded by admitting I had not read the thread in its entirety. So not sure where I am out of order.

I stand by what I said about most other clubs thinking this entire thread would be a bit rich, that Liverpool fans somehow feeling hard done by, let alone conspired against.

Bitters still haven't forgotten Clive Thomas.
 

Quicksand

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And this is why I brought the flat earth movement up - not because you share the same level of delusion
I have purposely isolated this piece of your post.
I dont share the same level of delusion.
Second or third time you have likened this side of the debate to flat earthers, then attempted to qualify the remark by saying you are not comparing us to them.
Why mention them?

Regarding your assertion that I think bias has been proved. Too right it has. Its probably all about opinion until we get a confession from a referee anyway. And in that respect I am just as likely to be correct as you are.
 

RedLar

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Fernandhino gets away with too many flagrant, counter attack stopping fouls. Conspiracy, bad reffing, matches being played at home?

The first line is a fact. The rest of it is all open to debate.
 

Mascot88

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I have purposely isolated this piece of your post.
I dont share the same level of delusion.
Second or third time you have likened this side of the debate to flat earthers, then attempted to qualify the remark by saying you are not comparing us to them.
Why mention them?
I said that was my last attempt at explaining this. I’m not wasting anymore time on it. Everything I have said is still there, and I can’t put more clearly than I have.

The fact that you have obviously misread just the small bit of my post that you quoted, and presumably took the opposite meaning speaks volumes.

Regarding your assertion that I think bias has been proved. Too right it has. Its probably all about opinion until we get a confession from a referee anyway. And in that respect I am just as likely to be correct as you are.
No, you aren’t. Your claim is substantially more extraordinary than mine.
 

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Fernandhino gets away with too many flagrant, counter attack stopping fouls. Conspiracy, bad reffing, matches being played at home?

The first line is a fact. The rest of it is all open to debate.
Is it a fact? By suggesting that the number of flagrant professional fouls he gets away with is excessive aren't you by necessary implication accepting that there is an acceptable amount of flagrant professional fouls that a player ought to be able to get away with? Isn't that a personal judgement call rather than a fact?
 

RedLar

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I don't think any ref is immune to bias and that the bias can evolve as a game is actually being played. Doesn't necessarily mean he wanted either team to win or lose before the kick off either.

As a minor example.

Consider a team 2-0 down suddenly gets a goal, to make it 2-1. It's in injury time and they get a late corner and the home crowd gets themselves into a fervor and a level of expectancy for the ensuing cross. How many times have you ever seen the ref blow it up before the corner is taken, even though time on the clock has run out. Never!!! The ball gets cleared by the defence. Ref blows his whistle. This happens 9 times out of 10. Is it conspiracy, or simply human nature on the part of the official? I suggest a lot of the latter happens, where officials become part of the occasion.

If time is up, the ref should just blow his whistle. Not wait to see if it goes in, for the sake of even the neutral fan. His job is to keep time and blow is whistle at 90 minutes.

Point is, refs are all swayed by the occasion, and often by the home team support. When Kompany fouled salah at their place there was zero reaction from the crowd. Ref felt comfy not pulling out an early red card. If it happened at anfield, then the crowd response would have demanded immediate / sterner action from the ref. Happens all the time. Some refs are eager to go to their pocket, others not so.

I suggest we have had several games this season were home fans have been so pissed their own team were so poor, that they start looking for any soft fouls from the ref, to appease the situation. In some cases the ref accommodates them. It's not right, but it's the way it goes.

Refs also book players out of reputation. It's not correct. Fernandhino situation is simply mid boggling to me. List is endless, and much of what happens is simply human. Match is also being played by humans let's remember.
 

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RedLar

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Is it a fact? By suggesting that the number of flagrant professional fouls he gets away with is excessive aren't you by necessary implication accepting that there is an acceptable amount of flagrant professional fouls that a player ought to be able to get away with? Isn't that a personal judgement call rather than a fact?
I suggest that the context around what city do as a team (Fernandhino being it main benefactor) is only lately being impressed upon by other clubs, and trust it will soon be better marshalled.

That fouls committed nearer the opponents half of the field, or immediately after possession is forfeit, are not that being heavily scrutinized.

The fact they are often the ankle tapping, let's get back and regroup, non bookable, snidely type foul, is what gets under my skin.
 

RedLar

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Is it a fact? By suggesting that the number of flagrant professional fouls he gets away with is excessive aren't you by necessary implication accepting that there is an acceptable amount of flagrant professional fouls that a player ought to be able to get away with? Isn't that a personal judgement call rather than a fact?
I see Fernandhino get away with a lot of fouls. That's a fact.
 

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I see Fernandhino get away with a lot of fouls. That's a fact.
That's closer to being a fact, yes. It's still only an opinion though [even if it's one that I share].
 



RedLar

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What issue? That we haven't won the league for years?! Pisses me right off but no need to vent here about it being everyone else's fault. Murdock doesn't even like footie!

Everything that's wrong with this forum in 60pages of nonsense!
Says the man who wrote this just a few hours ago.

If Thatcher wrote off Liverpool in secret cabinet files, why is it so difficult to believe in a conspiracy against the football team, particularly when there is vast sums of money at stake and dodgy russian and Abu dhabi involvement?

Fwiw, I don't think you need a conspiracy against LFC just tolerance or acceptance of FFP manipulation and cynical fouls by Citeh and their foul owners. Same goes for tolerance of Ferguson's bullying behaviour in the past.
 

cynicaloldgit

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@RedLar here are the FA rules:

“A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.”

As with many rules, both in football and elsewhere, the wording is deliberately vague and open to interpretation.
 

RedLar

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Why havent we won the league for so long? We havent been good enough and then when we have been, there's a team that has been better. Frankly, I dont see next season being any better, city will likely dominate the PL while Gaurdiola is in situ. We've had a club record breaking season and it is still in the balance whether we'll be top of the pile when it all ends. I hope against hope we are.
For 20 odd years we were pretty fucking shyte, and the excuses started piling up. Fact is we had poor staff on and off the field through most of it.

In winning the CL we were still 35 plus points off the domestic league title. If you wanted to find reasons for the lack of success our club needed but a mirror.
 
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