Conspiracy? Bias? Dumb luck? Why do LFC get shit decisions?

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Rambler

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@RedLar here are the FA rules:

“A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.”

As with many rules, both in football and elsewhere, the wording is deliberately vague and open to interpretation.
Both tackles were straight reds then on that basis..........
 

cynicaloldgit

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Both tackles were straight reds then on that basis..........
Did Virgil use “excessive force or brutality” or did he simply win the ball and the other player happened to be there to suffer his follow through? There is, in my opinion, a huge difference between the two challenges: Virgil was aiming for the ball; Kompany wasn’t.
 

RedLar

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I don't think any ref is immune to bias and that the bias can evolve as a game is actually being played. Doesn't necessarily mean he wanted either team to win or lose before the kick off either.

As a minor example.

Consider a team 2-0 down suddenly gets a goal, to make it 2-1. It's in injury time and they get a late corner and the home crowd gets themselves into a fervor and a level of expectancy for the ensuing cross. How many times have you ever seen the ref blow it up before the corner is taken, even though time on the clock has run out. Never!!! The ball gets cleared by the defence. Ref blows his whistle. This happens 9 times out of 10. Is it conspiracy, or simply human nature on the part of the official? I suggest a lot of the latter happens, where officials become part of the occasion.

If time is up, the ref should just blow his whistle. Not wait to see if it goes in, for the sake of even the neutral fan. His job is to keep time and blow is whistle at 90 minutes.

Point is, refs are all swayed by the occasion, and often by the home team support. When Kompany fouled salah at their place there was zero reaction from the crowd. Ref felt comfy not pulling out an early red card. If it happened at anfield, then the crowd response would have demanded immediate / sterner action from the ref. Happens all the time. Some refs are eager to go to their pocket, others not so.

I suggest we have had several games this season were home fans have been so pissed their own team were so poor, that they start looking for any soft fouls from the ref, to appease the situation. In some cases the ref accommodates them. It's not right, but it's the way it goes.

Refs also book players out of reputation. It's not correct. Fernandhino situation is simply mid boggling to me. List is endless, and much of what happens is simply human. Match is also being played by humans let's remember.
I say refs should be allowed to blow the whistle before the corner is taken, but let them take it anyway to see what would have happened. Nature demands it.:-)
 

Rambler

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Did Virgil use “excessive force or brutality” or did he simply win the ball and the other player happened to be there to suffer his follow through? There is, in my opinion, a huge difference between the two challenges: Virgil was aiming for the ball; Kompany wasn’t.
Well I would say he did. Getting the ball is irrelevant. That's why it doesn't say;

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play unless he touches the ball first.
 

cynicaloldgit

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Well I would say he did. Getting the ball is irrelevant. That's why it doesn't say;

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play unless he touches the ball first.
Nor does it say:
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play even if he touches the ball first.
 

RedLar

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Did Virgil use “excessive force or brutality” or did he simply win the ball and the other player happened to be there to suffer his follow through? There is, in my opinion, a huge difference between the two challenges: Virgil was aiming for the ball; Kompany wasn’t.
The main word you used was "opinion".

Personally,I thought VVDs challenge more of a red than that of Kompany. Mainly because of the impact on the player being tackled. VVD looks dirtier. As It stands, there would have been little cause for argument had a red been issued in either case. Red for Kompany would have been harsher imho. "Opinions" eh? Who'd have em?
 

RedLar

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Not really post related here, but is anyone here suggesting we were better than city in our two meetings this year? 11 v 11 that is?

I say we were second best in both games. If they win the league, then little inside me would say they did not deserve to.

Much deeper squad, and able to withstand even our juggernaut effort. They are pretty fucking good.

Not over yet.... come on Leicester.
 

Hope in your heart

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lol
So the first 2 thread titles weren't a piss take?
Righto.
I didn't say that I wasn't one of those poking fun... lol

What issue? That we haven't won the league for years?! Pisses me right off but no need to vent here about it being everyone else's fault. Murdock doesn't even like footie!

Everything that's wrong with this forum in 60pages of nonsense!
lol
 

RedLar

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So how a challenge looks is more important than its intent?
Well, ask the fella on the receiving end which is more important.

Kompany imho went for the ball, and was simply late. Clipped Salah's toe. VVD went for the ball, won it, but could have broken the lads leg. Unintentionally? We hope so..

If it's down to VAR then how it looks will have a major impact. Hard to suggest a players intent, replays or not.
 

Mascot88

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Well, ask the fella on the receiving end which is more important.

Kompany imho went for the ball, and was simply late. Clipped Salah's toe. VVD went for the ball, won it, but could have broken the lads leg. Unintentionally, well probably.

If it's down to VAR then how it looks will have a major impact. Hard to suggest a players intent, replays or not.
I think Kompany was lucky that Salah was to quick for him and got his leg out of the way. Had Salah’s leg been planted, it would have been a season ender. Van Dijk wasn’t going in with as much force, but connected and the buckle on the lads leg was sickening. Both as bad as each other imo.
 

RedLar

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Anyone who has played the game will tell you that intent is more important.
Yes, and how do you intend to prove a players intent pray tell. Difficult, even in attacking Kompany's effort. The last player I know intended to injure an opponent was thick enough to admit it in his book. Oh, and maybe perhaps that dick head Ramos, but he's a cunt.

A broken leg is a broken leg. A broken jaw is a broken jaw. I suggest there is little difference, having played this and tougher sports, and broken lots of bones. I don't queue up to ask them if they meant to or not.
 

RedLar

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Good to see the thread digress into actual football talk nonetheless. I'm off to the match day forum. Later lads.
 

RedLar

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I think Kompany was lucky that Salah was to quick for him and got his leg out of the way. Had Salah’s leg been planted, it would have been a season ender. Van Dijk wasn’t going in with as much force, but connected and the buckle on the lads leg was sickening. Both as bad as each other imo.
Perception will be everything when it comes to how VAR will treat each of these incidents. As such, I think Kompanys would receive lighter rebuke than that of VVD, simply on the merit of "how it looked", and regradless of intent, which you cannot prove anyway.
 

scouseheadross

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What ifs? Nobody got hurt in either tackle. Kompany's was way more cynical imo, that's what I hate about this City team. We've done amazingly but done so with a wonderful spirit too.

We're generally talking minute decisions. Like two season defining goals-by-3mm-or-not. Everything is analysed to death these days and we've all got eyes of our own. There is no massive bias. The press and establishment do hate us though. Maybe the odd ref too. Crazy given we have the best bunch of lads and nicest, honest manager. Imo it goes back to Heysel and the European ban. Thatcherism Vs socialism too.
 

Quicksand

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I said that was my last attempt at explaining this. I’m not wasting anymore time on it. Everything I have said is still there, and I can’t put more clearly than I have.

The fact that you have obviously misread just the small bit of my post that you quoted, and presumably took the opposite meaning speaks volumes.



No, you aren’t. Your claim is substantially more extraordinary than mine.
Speaks volumes on what? I could say the same thing about you on my posts, but that might be considered inflammatory.
And my claim is not substantially more extraordinary than yours, thats just your view of the world. Mine may be more jaundiced or more realistic, depending on how you see things.
 

Quicksand

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Virgils tackle= won the ball. Zero intent. European referee.
Kompanys tackle= nowhere near the ball. Full of intent. Prem referee.

But thats just an aside. Only cost us a swing large enough to be leading the league.
 

Kopstar

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Sigh. Even your trolling seems tired now.
Funny, despite saying that this thread represented everything that is wrong with this forum, you seem to be fully embracing it...

What ifs? Nobody got hurt in either tackle. Kompany's was way more cynical imo, that's what I hate about this City team. We've done amazingly but done so with a wonderful spirit too.

We're generally talking minute decisions. Like two season defining goals-by-3mm-or-not. Everything is analysed to death these days and we've all got eyes of our own. There is no massive bias. The press and establishment do hate us though. Maybe the odd ref too. Crazy given we have the best bunch of lads and nicest, honest manager. Imo it goes back to Heysel and the European ban. Thatcherism Vs socialism too.
 

scouseheadross

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Whilst you added little with your snipe, I made the point that there were documented elements of a political conspiracy against Liverpool in the past as I thought the fact may have been missed by some of the less aware, younger souls here. :wave:

I then twice made the point that this is a ludicrous debate for people with too much time on their hands as there is clearly much scrutiny and little perceivable bias.

Hardly embracing. More enjoying the view.
 

Mascot88

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Speaks volumes on what? I could say the same thing about you on my posts, but that might be considered inflammatory.
And my claim is not substantially more extraordinary than yours, thats just your view of the world. Mine may be more jaundiced or more realistic, depending on how you see things.
I specifically said in my post that I didn’t think you shared the same level of delusion as flat earthers, to which you replied that you don’t share the same Llewelyn of delusion as a flat earther. You literally repeated what I said. You didn’t read what I said properly. If you’d continued you’d have seen me say that the specific point of comparison is that you’re looking for evidence to support what you’ve already decided, found something, and declare ‘job done’. That what you have in common with flat earthers, not that your as thick, deluded or crazy. Hope that’s clear.

And the idea that there is such dislike of Liverpool amongst the games authorities that in manifests as bias that stops us winning stuff is an extraordinary claim. Far more than mine. You need to provide far more evidence than you have. Or don’t bother, and just enjoy the discussion. You’re the one trying to win this with evidence and proof.
 

RedLar

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What ifs? Nobody got hurt in either tackle. Kompany's was way more cynical imo, that's what I hate about this City team. We've done amazingly but done so with a wonderful spirit too.

We're generally talking minute decisions. Like two season defining goals-by-3mm-or-not. Everything is analysed to death these days and we've all got eyes of our own. There is no massive bias. The press and establishment do hate us though. Maybe the odd ref too. Crazy given we have the best bunch of lads and nicest, honest manager. Imo it goes back to Heysel and the European ban. Thatcherism Vs socialism too.
No question of all that for anyone older than 20, I reckon. As for a concerted conspiracy effort by a national party running for election, that's hard to digest. Sensational if it were true.

I reckon many in manchester dont want us near a league title, but reckon many neutrals would have a soft spot for us, if it comes down to City's mega spend against the team that put British club footy on the European map.
 

jaffod

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Not really post related here, but is anyone here suggesting we were better than city in our two meetings this year? 11 v 11 that is?

I say we were second best in both games. If they win the league, then little inside me would say they did not deserve to.

Much deeper squad, and able to withstand even our juggernaut effort. They are pretty fucking good.

Not over yet.... come on Leicester.
You might want to factor in their corruption and FFP abuse. Would they still deserve it?
 



Quicksand

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I specifically said in my post that I didn’t think you shared the same level of delusion as flat earthers, to which you replied that you don’t share the same Llewelyn of delusion as a flat earther. You literally repeated what I said. You didn’t read what I said properly. If you’d continued you’d have seen me say that the specific point of comparison is that you’re looking for evidence to support what you’ve already decided, found something, and declare ‘job done’. That what you have in common with flat earthers, not that your as thick, deluded or crazy. Hope that’s clear.

And the idea that there is such dislike of Liverpool amongst the games authorities that in manifests as bias that stops us winning stuff is an extraordinary claim. Far more than mine. You need to provide far more evidence than you have. Or don’t bother, and just enjoy the discussion. You’re the one trying to win this with evidence and proof.
I get and got what you said about flat earthers. I just dont understand why you used the analogy. There was no need to mention them if you weren't attempting to gain traction. Just as easy to say what you said without opening a post with them in the line. Thats all, and was always clear.
But its your perception. I didnt find evidence to support what I had decided. Just evidence to underpin what I and others had theorised. Not decided. I hope that is understood as well.
And you are mistaken in thinking I am trying to win anything. I know my truth anf stand by it. Others want to win by denying the evidence this side has put forward. Some skilful and enlightening arguments. Some dropping in to attempt to wind people up.
 

Quicksand

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@Hope in your heart and @Mascot88

Whilst I understand the rationale behind the decision to close this thread tomorrow, I think you should reconsider.

Lets take a post match thread, in which we are subject to a poor decision. Someone comments on it and receives the conspiracy theorist jibe. As was before. The usual "it evens out" nonsense added to being requested to wear a tin foil hat.

We dont all agree on everything, obviously, but the thoughts of being on the receiving end of that type of insult again rankles.

So, the debate in here is robust, sure enough. Some of us have received warning points, one person received bans (both from the side saying bias exists) whilst some others have got away with comments.
Leave it open. If people dont like it then stay away.
 

Mascot88

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@Hope in your heart and @Mascot88

Whilst I understand the rationale behind the decision to close this thread tomorrow, I think you should reconsider.
No. It’s a fucking car crash. Have a read back through how everyone has behaved to each other through multiple warnings and requests to tone it down. If this carries on, lads are getting banned and that’s a shame. It’s run it’s course, and everyone has said their bit. Nobody is having their minds changed.

Take Redlar and Jaffod’s exchange about City above. By the site rules, that’s a warning for both of them - first warning for Redlar, and a week off for Jaffod. Nobody, least of all the mods, wants to see lads banned for the shit in here. Especially not two days before a European Cup semi final. And yet it seems to bring out the worst. So it’s best to close it down.

We’re going for a league title and a European Cup. Isn’t it enough to talk about that for a bit?
 
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