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Crossing doesn't work...

callanlfc

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Is what I learnt from that game. Well it doesn't work if you pointlessly and aimlessly fire it into the box constantly from deep with hardly anyone in the box.

Now this raises two points for me, the first point being why oh why oh why do we hardly get players into the box? The second point being why are we brain dead chickens who constantly get the ball wide (mostly deep on the right) for whoever is on the right to constantly throw it into the box? Our attacking patterns of play are ridiculously uninventive at home, we never see a through ball splitting the defence for someone on the last defender to run onto, we rarely have it on the edge of the box in the centre in-between the defenders and the midfielders. We are just very predictable. Peoples thoughts?
 

Lucas

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Perhaps better discussed under the post-match thread
 

callanlfc

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Does this really need a thread? If you want to bitch about the game, why not bitch about it in the post-match thread?
Because it's not a one off thing in my opinion, especially at home we always do it! Gerrard and Johnson and Sterling can't wait to fire it into the box at any given chance.
 

callanlfc

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Did you not learn this from last season?
I was lead to believe we would be playing different hence the reason Carroll left because he wouldn't fit into Rodgers style of play. To be honest he would have been the perfect player for our style of play at home especially today.
 

Digary

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Crossing can work if you have an aerial threat. We don't.
Barcelona don't have an aerial threat and they rarely swing crosses in. The difference obviously is that we don't have a fraction of the quality or patience they have and the players start whipping them in because they don't have the quality to break teams down through the middle.

In the Llorente thread, someone pointed out that Llorente gets lots of goals with his head and asked how he would get all his goals ina "tiki taka" team. We are not a tiki taka team. That may be what Rodgers wants but right now are aren't. We cross the ball too much.
 

Hope in your heart

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We crossed 43 times today. Around 20% of them were successful according to opta stats, the other 80%... nuff said...

Might have been different with Carroll on the pitch, but whatever...
 

ILLOK

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I was lead to believe we would be playing different hence the reason Carroll left because he wouldn't fit into Rodgers style of play. To be honest he would have been the perfect player for our style of play at home especially today.
Not really, Llorente or Dzeko yes. Carroll would have been stood outside the box for 95% of the crosses.
 

OhYaBeauty

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Crossing can work if you have an aerial threat. We don't.
Barcelona don't have an aerial threat and they rarely swing crosses in. The difference obviously is that we don't have a fraction of the quality or patience they have and the players start whipping them in because they don't have the quality to break teams down through the middle.

In the Llorente thread, someone pointed out that Llorente gets lots of goals with his head and asked how he would get all his goals ina "tiki taka" team. We are not a tiki taka team. That may be what Rodgers wants but right now are aren't. We cross the ball too much.
Barcelona actually does swing in a good amount of crosses, but instead of being looped balls from deep positions, they're low balls from the byline inside the box...
 

Gears

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That's the issue we had with peter crouch....as soon as pennant left, we had no one who could put in a half decent cross in the box. Instead we went for the speedy break approach with Torres as a running striker.

Last season, there was one moment we brought on Carroll from the bench while removing his supply line (downing). Then he became good towards the end of the season until we decided to flog him right when sterling was about to replace downing.

Now carroll's gone, we actually have proper wingers willing to send teasing crosses. (see enrique, johnson, sterling, suso)...yet we have suarez who prefers the ball on the deck.

Part of me thinks rodgers only has an issue with the price we paid for carroll as opposed to his ability which I don't think is so garbage that he couldn't even be kept on the bench.
 

callanlfc

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Crossing can work if you have an aerial threat. We don't.
So why let Carroll go? To be honest it doesn't even look like Rodgers is trying to install that patience, we seem to be crossing more now than ever. Half arsed attempt by Rodgers to implement a system, complete mish mash of styles. Possession based whilst in our own half, West Ham/Stoke based when we get into the oppositions half. Surely Rodgers can see the crossing doesn't work and that we don't get enough players into the box to even make it work? Not to mention the lack of aerial threat we have up front anyway. It's frustrating as fuck seeing so many aimless, pointless crosses going into the box.
 

gingerbread

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I really think we are practicing tiki-taka based on training, but playing long ball+ cross during the match.

Tiki-taka supported to see passing game right outside the box to draw out defenders, then midfield move into the space left by defenders, or wingback move wide to create chance or score goals. Doing all that while have 8237129371 passing among themselves.

We could not stand pressure. Our player could not hold up the ball (Our best player that can hold the ball up top is Enrique), or quickly make short accurate pass. We don't have penetration threat as we almost never scored goal by through ball through their off-side trap. We only plays short pass when we need to have those 1-2 passing movement. And our wide player constantly up front trying to cross into the box. Means there is no space out wide for wingback

On defense, we don't keep the ball to control the game pace even when we need to (after scored or being scored). We can't hold the ball under pressure and always hoof up if being pressed.


I don't think we play tiki taka. I don't think we actually played any specific style at this moment
 

lfc.eddie

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8 crosses out of 43 and yet we continue to do it.
When a team parked the whole team in and around the 18 yard box, there is no other route other than crosses. The difference is we don't have players lined up and big enough to receive those crosses. Only Suarez or Shelvey in the box looking for the crosses. So if we don't continue doing so, we might not even stand a chance to have those 20 something shots on goal, and one got in.
 

callanlfc

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When a team parked the whole team in and around the 18 yard box, there is no other route other than crosses. The difference is we don't have players lined up and big enough to receive those crosses. Only Suarez or Shelvey in the box looking for the crosses. So if we don't continue doing so, we might not even stand a chance to have those 20 something shots on goal, and one got in.
I don't agree that it's the only route and anyway even if that was the case that still doesn't excuse how pathetic we are at getting into the box.
 

gingerbread

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When a team parked the whole team in and around the 18 yard box, there is no other route other than crosses. The difference is we don't have players lined up and big enough to receive those crosses. Only Suarez or Shelvey in the box looking for the crosses. So if we don't continue doing so, we might not even stand a chance to have those 20 something shots on goal, and one got in.
Strange is: that was exactly what failed Benitez and Kenny, as we failed to break down team putting 9 men inside the box in Anfield.

Like i mentioned before, i thought BR's tiki taka was for that, to congest right outside the box, making small pass in little space, and draw out defenders for killer pass.

But with Anfield turning into gift shop lately, i don't think a lot of teams will come here to defend
 

Gears

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Strange is: that was exactly what failed Benitez and Kenny, as we failed to break down team putting 9 men inside the box in Anfield.

Like i mentioned before, i thought BR's tiki taka was for that, to congest right outside the box, making small pass in little space, and draw out defenders for killer pass.

But with Anfield turning into gift shop lately, i don't think a lot of teams will come here to defend
We don't have players who have the touch to play those tiki taka passes in a congested penalty box. The principal culprit being Gerrard who is known to arrive late in the box. Maybe we have these players in sterling, shelvey and suso but they have not been doing this.It's too late for gerrard to learn how to be like iniesta and xavi who are 10 years ahead of him in ability.

So why let Carroll go? To be honest it doesn't even look like Rodgers is trying to install that patience, we seem to be crossing more now than ever. Half arsed attempt by Rodgers to implement a system, complete mish mash of styles. Possession based whilst in our own half, West Ham/Stoke based when we get into the oppositions half. Surely Rodgers can see the crossing doesn't work and that we don't get enough players into the box to even make it work? Not to mention the lack of aerial threat we have up front anyway. It's frustrating as fuck seeing so many aimless, pointless crosses going into the box.
Is it Rodger's fault if his players are not listening to his instructions to stick with one style?
 

EdWood

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Crosses work very well but only if you nail the right people to them.
A lot of our crosses seem to be cut out even before they get into the danger area too; an inacurate cross might as well not have been attempted as it just surrenders possession.

A quality crosser + a quality finisher = a probable goal; atm we haven't got either of those two.
 

Wathik_LFC

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Crossing doesn't work because we loaned the best aerial attacker Carrol to another team. God help me.
 

lfc.eddie

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That tiki-taka thing works when you are in total control and not chasing a game. Look at the mighty Barcelona against park-the-bus Chelsea last Champs League and it would tell you what it is like to play tiki-taka.

Gears and gingerbread, Brendan Rodgers have the idea of how football should be played, heck I think all of us do after watching the mesmerising style of Spain, Barcelona, and so on. But we need to realise one thing, we are not going to be able to do what Swansea does purely because we are Liverpool FC!

I said this before, when teams lined up against Swansea, they aren't going to worry too much about their tiki-taka and park the bus on them. They will play against them. But when they come up against the teams they consider top of the league pile, they park the bus because they know if they go toe-to-toe with us, they will get slaughtered. So they alter their playing style, park the bus and hit on counter.

That is where Rodgers got stuck. His experience do not give him that sort of scenario to play with. Nevermind 3-1 or 3-0 scoreline. When these sort of teams went ahead against us, they will defend with their lives. If we don't score first, we will not going to open them up. They are happy with 1 point, especially playing against us at home. Arsenal have the same problem after losing a player that scores at will, and hard man with technical ability in the middle of the pitch.

You need supreme quality in all department to play the way that tiki-taka game is developed. Extremely fit player, with superb technical ability on the ball, pace in abundance to close teams down when losing possession, extraordinary commitment to the cause to work for the team when we don't have the ball, and sublime skill up top as your forward and striker, who seems to score when half chance is there.

We have none, so we need a plan B. Crossing the ball into the box, put 3 attacking players in there and fight for the ball. Works for United all the time. They pile in the box with the players that can win headers and can finish. We don't. We suffer.
 

TTorroro

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That tiki-taka thing works when you are in total control and not chasing a game. Look at the mighty Barcelona against park-the-bus Chelsea last Champs League and it would tell you what it is like to play tiki-taka.

Gears and gingerbread, Brendan Rodgers have the idea of how football should be played, heck I think all of us do after watching the mesmerising style of Spain, Barcelona, and so on. But we need to realise one thing, we are not going to be able to do what Swansea does purely because we are Liverpool FC!

I said this before, when teams lined up against Swansea, they aren't going to worry too much about their tiki-taka and park the bus on them. They will play against them. But when they come up against the teams they consider top of the league pile, they park the bus because they know if they go toe-to-toe with us, they will get slaughtered. So they alter their playing style, park the bus and hit on counter.

That is where Rodgers got stuck. His experience do not give him that sort of scenario to play with. Nevermind 3-1 or 3-0 scoreline. When these sort of teams went ahead against us, they will defend with their lives. If we don't score first, we will not going to open them up. They are happy with 1 point, especially playing against us at home. Arsenal have the same problem after losing a player that scores at will, and hard man with technical ability in the middle of the pitch.

You need supreme quality in all department to play the way that tiki-taka game is developed. Extremely fit player, with superb technical ability on the ball, pace in abundance to close teams down when losing possession, extraordinary commitment to the cause to work for the team when we don't have the ball, and sublime skill up top as your forward and striker, who seems to score when half chance is there.

We have none, so we need a plan B. Crossing the ball into the box, put 3 attacking players in there and fight for the ball. Works for United all the time. They pile in the box with the players that can win headers and can finish. We don't. We suffer.
And bagful of pace upfront and wide helps heaps too before the defender get in shape behind ball again.

I think though we could stop short of mindlessly not playing to our strength (or playing to our weakness of lacking a physical presence upfront) by doing drilled low crosses or whatever good passes from wide to a better positioned players in box. Mix it up a bit between drilling it across goal and pulling it back. We seemed rather inept at this at the moment though and it does get somewhat depressing as we do get the ball into good position out wide at times but oh, that final ball. Still half a season to coach that into players though
 

No Men in the Box Redux

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Crossing doesn't work because we loaned the best aerial attacker Carrol to another team. God help me.
It has nothing to do with that. Crossing doesn't work because there is always NO MEN IN THE BOX (c). Even when Carroll played, that was a problem. Suarez as a false 9 is all well and good, but when he plays in that role, we need our midfielders (the two wide forwards and the one AM) to join in on the attack and play almost as strikers as well. Gerrard was often times the provider and played way too deep. Shelvey and Sterling are both too young and too inexperienced to get on the end of crosses and Joe Cole isn't exactly the most reliable goal scorer. So when crosses come in, there is never anyone attacking it.

Tika-taka does not mean you don't cross. Just look at how many goals come from crosses and tap-ins from Barca. Their fullbacks provide a lot of penetration and often times are able to get in very dangerous positions and provide threatening crosses that Pedro, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, or Villa will gobble up often times because these players all know how to attack a cross and make meaningful runs in the box.
 

denos666

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if only we had a forward who could have got on the end of all those crosses...

i think this just highlights the fact that carroll would have had his uses. is he worth £35 million? no chance. however he provides an alternative option who thrives on crosses in the box. a cross from the wing isn't a long ball and you'd like to think that if we did start playing long ball football while carroll was on the pitch, that rodgers could sort it out to ensure it doesn't happen.

as it happens carroll wasn't given a chance by rodgers and was shipped out. the fact he's injured now, doesn't mean he'd have been injured had he stayed with us but i personally would have preferred to have had him here than to have no one.

very short sighted and considering rodgers had danny graham at swansea then you can't say that carroll couldn't have done a similar role.
 

benjamin

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I agree with the post aboves comment about Carrol being better than no one. We played alot of long balls and crosses last season for the benefit of Carrol , It will take time a patience to iron out the last two regimes tactics. If Carrol where to stay last summer and played occasionaly there would always be that temptation to revert back to the old style of play. Every team crosses the ball its part of the game, we where marked so tightly in villas half yesterday it made our style very hard to play. There was no movement to support the wingers so they had no option but to cross and of course with our small team and stubourness to actualy get in the box and not all 4 players hang outside the box made it extremley pointles as we where just playing to villas strengths.

The team need to start shooting, have a pop from outside the box , take a chance . Instead, lets pass out wide giving the opponent the time to re group and lump an awful cross in there!