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Division and Polarity

1988greatestteam

Wishing for number 6
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Nov 25, 2009
Messages
545
Liverpool Fc, a great and much storied club. A club with fanatical support and amazing history, tradition handed down from generation to generation. And now our current place in todays football world. What is it that divides supporters opinion so much, is the expectation too great or is the mundane not acceptable. The "polarity of opinion" has never been greater, in my humble opinion, in all our history. What is the "division" and can there be middle ground? Is the never ending onslaught of social media contributing to the polarity of opinion, "to much info a bad thing". The following is an example I garnered from a well known media sports site as 2 examples of division among supporters



"To all you haters pretending to be LFC fans, can i just remind you that we were only hours away from administration, liquidation of our assets and being demoted to somewhere in the lower leagues. They then hired KD (a fans choice for manager) and gave him 100 million to spend (more then any other team that season), which he blew on mid table players. BR and the owners are rightly cautious of spending after that and are trying to stick to FFP regulations. They have said their plan is to build LFC to a top club once again, but it wont happen over night (manchester united wasn't buil in a day), and most football club owners are not reckless billionaire russians. SO JUST START SUPPORTING WHAT THE CLUB DO OR STOP COMMENTING. Oh thank you FSG for saving us from bankrupcy and relagation, and BR you're doing a fine job considering the mess you inherited. "


"This is absolute nonsense, lets just see what hapens in January and then in the summer, after the summer signings we will be able to judge Rodgers and the owners ambitions for the club. At the moment re struggle to break teams down and struggle to hold on to leads 5 minutes from time. We need more creativity up front as is mentioned and Rodgers needs to ensure the team contain the ball for the last 5 minutes of games."
 

rupzzz

TIA Regular
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Feb 26, 2011
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7,363
It's a work in progress, and I've said time and again, there are divisions visible in that the team is divided between players BR see's in his team in the long term future and those that he has in the team that he would ideally like to replace. These divisions will take time to fix, and I believe the time needed for that will be the next two transfer windows (Jan 2013 and Summer 2013).

The measure of BRs success will be based on those two windows as at the start of next season he will have had enough time to bring the players he wants provide he gets the funds.

In the mean time the divison amongst the fans needs fixing ASAP. Get behind the club and lets all pull in the same direction.

This thread will no doubt take the course of the many other threads where we argue for and against the owners, BR, certain players, the style of play etc and as a result will go on to highlite the divisons we face.
 

King Aldo

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Jan 28, 2010
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1,429
I dont think the divisions are all that great at the moment. Most people know that BR needs a few windows to build his squad - what you are seeing is frustration that we are undergoing another total overhaul of the club and the last couple bore very little fruit.

I think there was a lot more division about the sacking of Rafa and the sacking of KK than there is over BR right now.
 

callanlfc

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Nov 2, 2012
Messages
300
It's the lack of direction, the lack of leadership and the lack of ambition from bottom to top at the club which in my opinion splits opinions amongst the fans. Our owners seem to stumble from one decision to the next see hiring Brendan Rodgers then scraping the experienced director of football plans just because Rodgers didn't want to work with one. Not to mention all the farcical things that has happened to the club since our owners took over, the whole Suarez racism issue, the Chang thing, the Carroll loan and deadline day disaster. It all adds up to a feeling of the club severely lacking leadership and direction. This feeling is amplified more by the fact that we have no one in charge around the club who has any kind of footballing experience, who do we have around the club Ayre? All of it is not good enough! We are a rudderless ship. I can deal with being shit and I'm sure there are many other supporters who can deal with us being shit but when it feels like the cub from top to bottom isn't doing all it can to give us direction and leadership that's what is hard to take and leads to this split.
 

liveforthereds

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Apr 20, 2008
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5,964
Rupzzz You may well be right about the way the thread may go, I think the problems are the inexpeance of all those involved with the club the lack of learning from mistakes made and in reality the hight turn over in the playing staff and backroom staff not to mention three managers in less than 3 years, if you don't have stubilty then you can't expect the club to progress. Yes you can point the finger and say well look at Chelsea they turn over managers like they are going out of fashion but they can and do throw a hell of a lot of money at the problem we don't have that kind of money so we need to do things differantly and thats one thing thats not happening. Rogers may sort it out in time but with the current record of the owners I don't think he has as much time as some seem to think. CL is what they want and with this squad we don't have a chance of getting there. So there will be big differances between the fans.
 

Chewbazza

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"This is absolute nonsense, lets just see what hapens in January and then in the summer, after the summer signings we will be able to judge Rodgers and the owners ambitions for the club. At the moment re struggle to break teams down and struggle to hold on to leads 5 minutes from time. We need more creativity up front as is mentioned and Rodgers needs to ensure the team contain the ball for the last 5 minutes of games."
This bit is actually an eloquent reasoned post, the polarity that actually exists is more along the lines of:

FSG may have saved us from administration, but since then they haven't put so much as a pound into the club, they expect us to be in the Champions League but won't give the manager £200 million to spend. They are just as bad as H&G as it is clear they are selling all the good players and replacing them with crap ones on cheap wages and they won't even build a stadium, so they are obviously going to sell up in two years after doing everything in their power to destabilise the club the paid hundreds of millions of pounds for. Also Brendan Rodgers is a terrible manager because he has been in the job for several months now and still hasn't won a trophy and he didn't buy Messi in August even though caughtoffside mentioned he was upset that Guardiola has left the club, which obviously means he unsettled and wants to move to Liverpool...


It's all or nothing with some posters on here and elsewhere.
 

Dane

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Bet there's a few people rubbing their hands with this thread.

Yet another chance to tell us grumblers what shut fans we are
 

No Men in the Box Redux

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Sep 19, 2012
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1,976
It's the lack of direction, the lack of leadership and the lack of ambition from bottom to top at the club...
The problem with this is that while you justifiably point out the negatives, you fail to mention any of the positives. Just to mention a few off the top of my head that are directly related to what you have said about direction, leadership and ambition:
  1. Finally paying off all the debt that has been piled on to the club during the G&H era.
  2. Securing long-term contracts for all of our big stars including Suarez, Skrtel, Agger, Lucas, Johnson, Gerrard. It could be worse, mind you. We could be like Arsenal.
  3. Commercial success of the club since FSG took over: including big deals with Standard Charter, Warrior, and a long list of other companies from all over the world.
  4. Expansion of stadium plans have finally been approved and given the go-ahead.
  5. Strong support for the club's academy and its direction. We have some of the best people running it in McParland, Borrell, Inglethorpe, etc. and we are continuing to be a force in U21 and Reserves football which helps us to attract young talent.
  6. Lots of hirings and firings lately but in general, it does seem like FSG is interested in bringing the best here. The Chang debacle could arguably be filed away as a write-off. Who would have known that he was such a Changster? No one. The new hires for the scouting department (those former Man City guys) and the medical department (the guy who helped Bellers and the UK Olympic Cycling team) also seem to be big coups.

Now that is not to say that I'm an eternal optimist. I also recognize the points others are making and I am myself disappointed and frustrated with a lot of the way things have turned out. But I think in general, FSG have shown that they do have ambition and that they do want the club to succeed but they are quite new to all of this and as such will be prone to a few blunders here and there. We aren't owned by a sugar daddy like Roman or the Sheiks so we can't expect to have massive cash injections into the squad always. I know this is usually the only one area for fans to gauge the owners' ambitions but I think people are quick to forget the sort of situation we were in right before FSG took over. It could be a whole lot worse. It could also be a lot better if your only one measure of ambition or success is the ability to sign Cavani or Falcao for instance. Unfortunately, this just isn't feasible now a days unless you are a club that is owned by someone who is willing to spend obscene amounts of money. Some people will hold this against FSG as a mistake of theirs but I think it should be more of a case that our expectations be made more realistic. FSG have been making positive net spending investments in the club mind you. Admittedly not positive enough to satisfy most fans but still nevertheless, positive.

But at least for now, when our owners are making mistakes, it is because they are actively trying to implement new ideas that they believe would take the club forward (perfect example is all the hiring and firings in Comolli, Kenny, etc.). Their intentions seem to be in the right place.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
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Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,286
All this started after the sale from Moores and Parry. During that time we came to terms with our budget, work with what we have and be happy that we have Rafa Benitez. Before that we had Houllier, a treble winner, even though he lost his way near the tail end with his "Keeper-Heskey-Owen" tactic, we still are at the top half. We had Bernard Diomede, Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou, Biscan and Traore for god sake. We were never as divided as we are today.

The reason behind the discontent and division was all down to perception and misplaced of trust. A lot of people had missed the point these days it is unheard of. We are now discussing about how we should understand the situation of our owners, and how we should be glad to have them. While back then, we don't even care if Moores have to mortgage his house or sell his shares of Littlewoods to fund our transfer, we just want to see us moving forward.

People were critical over our managers, our players and even the CEO since a long time ago. At the end of the day, we still sit down and discuss what's right and what's wrong about the game, about a few players. Praise those who actually did something in a game, we have always given credit where it is due.

Now, the problem starts when semantics were introduced, the "he did no wrong" were regarded as a high praise and defending the bank account of the owners is fashionable. That is where the problem lies. We forgot where we are, why we are here and who are we fighting for. We are here because of football, we are in the Liverpool Football Club fans/supporters site and we are fighting for the football club! We are not fighting for Brendan Rodgers, we are not here to support Steven Gerrard/Lucas/Henderson/Suarez ALONE and we are not here because of Liverpool FSG Club.
 

OhYaBeauty

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Sep 15, 2012
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5,591
What is the point of this thread? Does it serve any other purpose than the Owners and Good Supporters threads?

We get it. Fans disagree with each other, some like FSG, some don't, some like Rodgers, some don't. Why do we need multiple threads telling us how to go about it?
 

TFC

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7,464
I think that summed up why theres so much division and polarity. In the minds of many its:
Complaining about the owners = ok.
Defending the owners when the complaints are unwarranted = not ok.

And its the complete opposite for others. It basically comes down to, I want to express my opinion, and I want to hear others who agree with my opinion, but its wrong of you to want to express yours if it differs from mine. Much like the division and polarity that occurs on every platform, and not limited to football or LFC at all. People just want to hear what they want to hear and nothing more.
 

Doggie

Resident Optimist
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Aug 6, 2010
Messages
1,615
It's a work in progress, and I've said time and again, there are divisions visible in that the team is divided between players BR see's in his team in the long term future and those that he has in the team that he would ideally like to replace. These divisions will take time to fix, and I believe the time needed for that will be the next two transfer windows (Jan 2013 and Summer 2013).

The measure of BRs success will be based on those two windows as at the start of next season he will have had enough time to bring the players he wants provide he gets the funds.

In the mean time the divison amongst the fans needs fixing ASAP. Get behind the club and lets all pull in the same direction.

This thread will no doubt take the course of the many other threads where we argue for and against the owners, BR, certain players, the style of play etc and as a result will go on to highlite the divisons we face.
A perfectly reasoned response - most people seem to understand where the club is right now, and many have said it will take 2-3 seasons to reach were we want to be.

It's unfortunate therefore that after only 2-3 weeks we have a thread questioning Brendan Rodgers.

The division in attitude exists because some people's expectations are so high and they have absolutely no fucking patience lol
 

gingerbread

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Nov 16, 2010
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5,720
It's the lack of direction, the lack of leadership and the lack of ambition from bottom to top at the club which in my opinion splits opinions amongst the fans. Our owners seem to stumble from one decision to the next see hiring Brendan Rodgers then scraping the experienced director of football plans just because Rodgers didn't want to work with one. Not to mention all the farcical things that has happened to the club since our owners took over, the whole Suarez racism issue, the Chang thing, the Carroll loan and deadline day disaster. It all adds up to a feeling of the club severely lacking leadership and direction. This feeling is amplified more by the fact that we have no one in charge around the club who has any kind of footballing experience, who do we have around the club Ayre? All of it is not good enough! We are a rudderless ship. I can deal with being shit and I'm sure there are many other supporters who can deal with us being shit but when it feels like the cub from top to bottom isn't doing all it can to give us direction and leadership that's what is hard to take and leads to this split.
Agree on this.

They have gone halfway and did not follow through with their decision (fear of being accountable?). For me, they should have:
  • Publicly have joined statements with Suarez that he didn't say what he was accused of, but understand culture difference may make a certain asshole feel offensive.
  • Get a Director of football, even if that means we have to pick some other manager.
  • Sell Carroll, or have compulsory buy out clause if find no use for him.
  • Tell Roger that they won't overpay for Dempsey, so don't expect new coming in last day.
  • Back Chang up over that scandal as he's their appointment.
I don't know if we would have turned out better than we do now. But at least they will send out clear message that they have vision, are decisive and would not be swayed by pressure or public opinions.
 

callanlfc

New Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
300
The problem with this is that while you justifiably point out the negatives, you fail to mention any of the positives. Just to mention a few off the top of my head that are directly related to what you have said about direction, leadership and ambition:
  1. Finally paying off all the debt that has been piled on to the club during the G&H era.
  2. Securing long-term contracts for all of our big stars including Suarez, Skrtel, Agger, Lucas, Johnson, Gerrard. It could be worse, mind you. We could be like Arsenal.
  3. Commercial success of the club since FSG took over: including big deals with Standard Charter, Warrior, and a long list of other companies from all over the world.
  4. Expansion of stadium plans have finally been approved and given the go-ahead.
  5. Strong support for the club's academy and its direction. We have some of the best people running it in McParland, Borrell, Inglethorpe, etc. and we are continuing to be a force in U21 and Reserves football which helps us to attract young talent.
  6. Lots of hirings and firings lately but in general, it does seem like FSG is interested in bringing the best here. The Chang debacle could arguably be filed away as a write-off. Who would have known that he was such a Changster? No one. The new hires for the scouting department (those former Man City guys) and the medical department (the guy who helped Bellers and the UK Olympic Cycling team) also seem to be big coups.
Now that is not to say that I'm an eternal optimist. I also recognize the points others are making and I am myself disappointed and frustrated with a lot of the way things have turned out. But I think in general, FSG have shown that they do have ambition and that they do want the club to succeed but they are quite new to all of this and as such will be prone to a few blunders here and there. We aren't owned by a sugar daddy like Roman or the Sheiks so we can't expect to have massive cash injections into the squad always. I know this is usually the only one area for fans to gauge the owners' ambitions but I think people are quick to forget the sort of situation we were in right before FSG took over. It could be a whole lot worse. It could also be a lot better if your only one measure of ambition or success is the ability to sign Cavani or Falcao for instance. Unfortunately, this just isn't feasible now a days unless you are a club that is owned by someone who is willing to spend obscene amounts of money. Some people will hold this against FSG as a mistake of theirs but I think it should be more of a case that our expectations be made more realistic. FSG have been making positive net spending investments in the club mind you. Admittedly not positive enough to satisfy most fans but still nevertheless, positive.

But at least for now, when our owners are making mistakes, it is because they are actively trying to implement new ideas that they believe would take the club forward (perfect example is all the hiring and firings in Comolli, Kenny, etc.). Their intentions seem to be in the right place.
All those things that you have listed are the very basics of what every club expects. They aren't positives (well they are) but they are the very basics of any club, to be debt free, to have youth system which nurtures youngsters, to enhance commercial deals to secure our most important players to long term contracts. It's like we have been living of Asda smart price ham under the previous yanks and now the current yanks are giving us Bernard Mathews Wafer Thin Turkey Ham and because we have been living off smart price ham for so long we think the Bernard Mathews ham is the highest quality British steak... Well it just isn't. This by the way has nothing to do with transfer funds there's always going to be a limited budget it has nothing to do with that it has everything to do with the lack of direction, the lack of leadership and the lack of ambition from bottom to top at the club and everything I mentioned in my original post.
 

No Men in the Box Redux

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Sep 19, 2012
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All those things that you have listed are the very basics of what every club expects. They aren't positives (well they are) but they are the very basics of any club, to be debt free, to have youth system which nurtures youngsters, to enhance commercial deals to secure our most important players to long term contracts. It's like we have been living of Asda smart price ham under the previous yanks and now the current yanks are giving us Bernard Mathews Wafer Thin Turkey Ham....
Difference between expectations and reality. You say that the points that I've come up with off the top of my head are basic expectations for any club. Well they aren't. Referencing my own examples from above, I just want to show you how plenty of other top, competitive clubs have failed in these areas:

1) The majority of competitive clubs in the world are now in debt. Not to mention the crazy debt at United, City, and etc. So few clubs are actually on top of their finances. Few clubs have actually been able to become truly sustainable and profitable like Dortmund, Bayern, Madrid, Arsenal and etc.

2) Arsenal and Tottenham - two of our main competitors have real trouble tying down their star players to long term contracts. You wouldn't exactly call them directionless clubs. Arsenal has been in the CL knockout stages consecutively for so long now and Spurs are regularly in the top 5 or 6 in the league.

3) Plenty of competitive clubs fail to have a proper commercial and marketing strategy. To be honest, we were not fairing very well at all in this area until FSG took over.

4) Chelsea still hasn't expanded their stadium. City only recently moved to the Etihad after a huge cash injection from their owners. Lots of other teams still play in stadiums that only serve 40,000 or less.

5) Again, some clubs don't even have an academy. Others, if they do, don't have a great policy, nor have they been able to create any homegrown stars. FSG have deemed our academy a priority to maintain and improve much like how over at City, their focus is going to be on building theirs up from scratch. A lot of clubs don't have this focus or concern for their academies whatsoever.

6) Again, Arsenal's scouting department is great but their medical department has consistently let their players down. So no, not every club has great people in every department of their club. My point was that FSG seems to care enough to look for the best and try to hire them. Not every owner of every top club does that on a regular basis.

*Finally the part about positive net spend, just look at Arsenal and Everton. Two clubs that have been competing above us for the last two years but still regularly fail to spend more than they sell.

The point is, you can see them as basics but a lot of top clubs also fail to match the expectations of their supporters as well in these areas where the owners have been actively trying to improve. You're right that things could be a lot better, but I'm just saying that things could be a lot worse and for all the negatives you point out, you should also give credit where it is due and keep in mind some of the positives. It's only fair.
 

Spitfire

Resident Realist
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Mar 6, 2006
Messages
2,308
All those things that you have listed are the very basics of what every club expects. They aren't positives (well they are) but they are the very basics of any club, to be debt free, to have youth system which nurtures youngsters, to enhance commercial deals to secure our most important players to long term contracts. It's like we have been living of Asda smart price ham under the previous yanks and now the current yanks are giving us Bernard Mathews Wafer Thin Turkey Ham and because we have been living off smart price ham for so long we think the Bernard Mathews ham is the highest quality British steak... Well it just isn't. This by the way has nothing to do with transfer funds there's always going to be a limited budget it has nothing to do with that it has everything to do with the lack of direction, the lack of leadership and the lack of ambition from bottom to top at the club and everything I mentioned in my original post.
If these are the very basics then how well are Man United, Chelsea and Man City being run..........Lots of debt, very little youth development, bogus commercial deals to bolster 'revenues'.....

As for the lack of direction - we have a new manager who has the owners backing and based on his policies in the first transfer window - has a plan on how he thinks the best way to take us forward is. We have signed some of the biggest commercial deals not only in our history but in all of football under the latest owners.........

This doesn't strike me as lacking leadership, ambition or direction.

Sure these guys are certainly not perfect, my issue is how many want ot put every little thig under
the microscope - how productive would you be if your stakeholders did that to you?

There comes a point where while we can have an opinion we might just have to give some leeway and let these guys get on and do their job.
 

Mascot88

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Messages
24,404
All those things that you have listed are the very basics of what every club expects. They aren't positives (well they are) but they are the very basics of any club, to be debt free, to have youth system which nurtures youngsters, to enhance commercial deals to secure our most important players to long term contracts.
The old 'they can't be given credit credit for things I expect as a minimum line'. What an arrogant, petulant load of arse. They'll be people saying this when we finally win the league again.

How many clubs secure the commercial deals that FSG have secured? Very few. That we can still be pulling in the money we are, without CL football is an astonishing achievement in my view. How many clubs have the talent coming through the academy that we do?

I'm expecting some nice presents the Christmas, doesn't mean I shouldn't be grateful when I get them.
 

REDSkins

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Feb 18, 2011
Messages
1,309
Agree with those who mention ownership & managerial changes causing divisions. Let's not forget that in 2012, the owners of big clubs are now celebrities. They fiddle with the footballing side (& especially the press) more than in the past. Most of us can name the owners of all the top 8 PL clubs. Not sure that was the case 15-20 years ago.

LFC aside, the whole world is more polarized (or is able to appear that way) because of the rise of the internet, internet forums, social media, and blogging. There are people who make a living off of trolling, and we even have "internet celebrities" these days. In an era where 140 characters is all you get to make a point, it's more effective to take sides and be controversial...(mirroring Murdoch/Sky/Fox, modern news ($$$) media)

Lots of perspiring journalists out there...
 

darren kelly

"Luisito Estamos Con Vos"
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Jan 29, 2011
Messages
2,469
So another real fans and not real fans thread.Who the hell is anybody to say "To all you haters pretending to be LFC fans,''
No one is hating some are saying Hicks and Gillette were bastards.Some say Brendan may be too inexperienced for the job and Rafa would have been better.Some say they are unclear of John Henry and his motives.Some are fed up with Joe Cole and Downing and Carroll.t We are entitled to say this and whatever we want.It does not mean we do not love the club.It does not mean we do not shout our support from the stands just as much as anybody.The club is more than the owners and manager and current players.They are not the club.Anybody that has supported this club through these troubled years deserves to walk through the darkness into the light of glory again.We are all real fans.
 

callanlfc

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Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
300
The old 'they can't be given credit credit for things I expect as a minimum line'. What an arrogant, petulant load of arse. They'll be people saying this when we finally win the league again.

How many clubs secure the commercial deals that FSG have secured? Very few. That we can still be pulling in the money we are, without CL football is an astonishing achievement in my view. How many clubs have the talent coming through the academy that we do?

I'm expecting some nice presents the Christmas, doesn't mean I shouldn't be grateful when I get them.
The old 'so long as the basics are being done that's good enough for me line'. It's no wonder we are a hunking piece of shit on and off the field with an ex Swansea manager in charge, relying on youngsters to do things for us with attitudes like that. It's probably the same attitude that our owners have. You can quote me on this as well, we will not win the league under FSG. Lots of clubs secure the commercial deals we have, Arsenal have just secured a new £30million a season deal, United are getting £45million a season from Chevrolet. City have their massive deal. Similarly lots of clubs have the talent we have coming through the academy but let's not give FSG credit for an academy Rafa set up which is now being stretched to the maximum and over relied on due to us having a lack of senior players which has now also lost one of the main men at the academy in Segura.

If these are the very basics then how well are Man United, Chelsea and Man City being run..........Lots of debt, very little youth development, bogus commercial deals to bolster 'revenues'.....

As for the lack of direction - we have a new manager who has the owners backing and based on his policies in the first transfer window - has a plan on how he thinks the best way to take us forward is. We have signed some of the biggest commercial deals not only in our history but in all of football under the latest owners.........

This doesn't strike me as lacking leadership, ambition or direction.

Sure these guys are certainly not perfect, my issue is how many want ot put every little thig under
the microscope - how productive would you be if your stakeholders did that to you?

There comes a point where while we can have an opinion we might just have to give some leeway and let these guys get on and do their job.
Bogus commercial deals? Our's are hardly saint like, you do realise Warrior and New Balance have had long term ties with FSG? If that doesn't class as bogus I don't know what does. But that is off topic and to be honest I don't care how bogus or un-bogus our deals are so long as it brings the money in and I'm sure United fans think the same about the £45million from Chevrolet and I'm sure City fans think the same about their however much it is deal with Etihad.

I would hardly say the owners are backing our new manager when Rodgers openly states he expects a striker to come in on the last day of the transfer window as a replacement for Carroll and then what do you know a striker doesn't come in. I wouldn't call that backing the manager.
 

callanlfc

New Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
300
Difference between expectations and reality. You say that the points that I've come up with off the top of my head are basic expectations for any club. Well they aren't. Referencing my own examples from above, I just want to show you how plenty of other top, competitive clubs have failed in these areas:

1) The majority of competitive clubs in the world are now in debt. Not to mention the crazy debt at United, City, and etc. So few clubs are actually on top of their finances. Few clubs have actually been able to become truly sustainable and profitable like Dortmund, Bayern, Madrid, Arsenal and etc.

2) Arsenal and Tottenham - two of our main competitors have real trouble tying down their star players to long term contracts. You wouldn't exactly call them directionless clubs. Arsenal has been in the CL knockout stages consecutively for so long now and Spurs are regularly in the top 5 or 6 in the league.

3) Plenty of competitive clubs fail to have a proper commercial and marketing strategy. To be honest, we were not fairing very well at all in this area until FSG took over.

4) Chelsea still hasn't expanded their stadium. City only recently moved to the Etihad after a huge cash injection from their owners. Lots of other teams still play in stadiums that only serve 40,000 or less.

5) Again, some clubs don't even have an academy. Others, if they do, don't have a great policy, nor have they been able to create any homegrown stars. FSG have deemed our academy a priority to maintain and improve much like how over at City, their focus is going to be on building theirs up from scratch. A lot of clubs don't have this focus or concern for their academies whatsoever.

6) Again, Arsenal's scouting department is great but their medical department has consistently let their players down. So no, not every club has great people in every department of their club. My point was that FSG seems to care enough to look for the best and try to hire them. Not every owner of every top club does that on a regular basis.

*Finally the part about positive net spend, just look at Arsenal and Everton. Two clubs that have been competing above us for the last two years but still regularly fail to spend more than they sell.

The point is, you can see them as basics but a lot of top clubs also fail to match the expectations of their supporters as well in these areas where the owners have been actively trying to improve. You're right that things could be a lot better, but I'm just saying that things could be a lot worse and for all the negatives you point out, you should also give credit where it is due and keep in mind some of the positives. It's only fair.
1. To be honest we aren't even debt free.

2. Arsenal and Tottenham aren't our competitors, Swansea and Stoke are our competitors. I'll give you Arsenal but I can't recall too many cases at Spurs where they have allowed a contract of one of their star players to run down and I'm pretty sure Bale signed a new long term contract in the summer there.

3. It couldn't have been too difficult to improve on what was it? A £6million a season deal from Carlsberg and a £10million deal from Adidas. Especially when you consider the size of our fan base. Credit to them for doing it to be fair. Arsenal just signed a new £30million a season deal, United get ridiculous amounts from Chevrolet, City have a massive deal with Etihad.

4. City moved to their stadium in 2003, nothing to do with the cash of their now owners. Lots of teams do have stadiums less than 40,000 but also teams with no where near the backing and support we have, have bigger stadiums than us the likes of Newcastle, Sunderland and City all have bigger stadiums than us.

5. Every club has a concern for it's academy.

6. Our medical team and scouting team are both shit from the evidence I have seen so far. I don't even have to mention the deals we struck under Dalglish we all know how shit those deals were. The medical team is no better either, sending Lucas back on the pitch with a busted knee, letting Lucas start a game after he felt something in the warm up. Not identifying the broken bone in Borini's foot.
 

Mascot88

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6. Our scouting team [are both] is shit from the evidence I have seen so far.
How the fuck can you write that and still expect anyone to treat you seriously? How the hell can you write off the scouting team as being shit when they have only had a couple if months.

You're moaning because you want to.
 

callanlfc

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How the fuck can you write that and still expect anyone to treat you seriously? How the hell can you write off the scouting team as being shit when they have only had a couple if months.

You're moaning because you want to.
Do we have a new scouting team? Or just a couple of additions to the scouting team? It's hardly a revamped scouting system.
 

T.C.B

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Do we have a new scouting team? Or just a couple of additions to the scouting team? It's hardly a revamped scouting system.
Do you ever say anything positive about this club? Almost every single post is a bitch about Gerrard or Brendan and now the scouting system. Do you ever see the positive side or are you in here to constantly complain?
 

callanlfc

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Do you ever say anything positive about this club? Almost every single post is a bitch about Gerrard or Brendan and now the scouting system. Do you ever see the positive side or are you in here to constantly complain?
Sorry I'll try to delude myself more so that everything seems hunky dory.
 

T.C.B

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Sorry I'll try to delude myself more so that everything seems hunky dory.
You dont need to do that. Not denying we have problems and have wrongs to put right. What more can you expect from a new manager with such a depleted squad. No need to rehash all the reasons for it, you and I both know them.
Tell you what though I would rather be here than in the bottom 3 headed for relegation and hours from administration with Roy in charge. Now that would be a reason to complain. Be a supporter, the clue is in the name.