Divock Origi (FW) Besiktas

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HKReds

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But is that point your age 22 season on loan? I don't think it is.

Origi would be smart to voice his desire to stay and fight for a place and hope he can learn to find the back of the net in the next year. I don't think he's going to get a big wage offer from someone else right now.
Not sure about that. If I were him, I will push for a move to get regular minutes. Might be a step down but it will benefit his career more in the long run.
 

UpTheReds

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Not sure about that. If I were him, I will push for a move to get regular minutes. Might be a step down but it will benefit his career more in the long run.
He did that last year. It doesn't appear to have helped. Playing a lot of minutes but not getting any better isn't really a help. Improving while playing a backup role for a top club would have been better for him.
 

Red over the water

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I want Jurgen to grab Origi’s shirt and look him in the face and tell him he’s got everything in his locker to be a top player. This is his last chance. Show us your heart.

Solanke goes to Rangers and scores a hatful there, Ings gets a low-mid Prem team move and does well, Sturridge leaves on a free, and Origi comes back and gets stuck in when called on, and is a real asset to add to the options up front as needed.

Probable fantasy, I know, but I’m gutted the lad is not making use of the physical gifts he has. If he could find some heart, some hunger, some urgency, he might yet be a player.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I really don't get what Origi has done to have so many on his side willing to give him yet more chances. It would likely be limiting the squads ability to move forward if we sacrificed a place and playing time to another year of trying to get something out of Origi. Klopp is probably the very best qualified person to judge on this and he's moved Origi on already. That loan was supposed to be for the shop window and he didn't look too great on the auction block.
 

UpTheReds

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I really don't get what Origi has done to have so many on his side willing to give him yet more chances. It would likely be limiting the squads ability to move forward if we sacrificed a place and playing time to another year of trying to get something out of Origi. Klopp is probably the very best qualified person to judge on this and he's moved Origi on already. That loan was supposed to be for the shop window and he didn't look too great on the auction block.
Honestly, it's not the club's choice. If Origi doesn't want to go on loan and doesn't want to sign with another club, he won't. He has a contract. Remember Fabio Borini? Origi has a year left on his contract, and seems to me he'd be smart to try to use it to benefit. He can pursue a move once the club's incomings are set if things are not looking good for him.
 

Scott Jones

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We've moved up a few notches since we bought this lad and he's gone backwards whilst our team has gone forwards,he's shown nothing on loan to suggest he's getting better or has the gumption to really show and prove otherwise,his boat has sailed imo.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Honestly, it's not the club's choice. If Origi doesn't want to go on loan and doesn't want to sign with another club, he won't. He has a contract. Remember Fabio Borini? Origi has a year left on his contract, and seems to me he'd be smart to try to use it to benefit. He can pursue a move once the club's incomings are set if things are not looking good for him.
I was talking about fan opinion on here not what will happen.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Your words suggested the club has a choice. "Give him more chances" , "Sacrificed a place" ,"Moved Origi on already". None of that is accurate because it's not their choice.
Think you need to read it again. First line quite clearly states I'm addressing what some fans on here would do if it was up to them as per posts before mine.

On subject of would he leave, are you really suggesting there aren't any clubs out there that would stick Origi on the pitch that Origi would prefer our bench too? He will move on if we want him too. And I'm pretty sure we do. Only question is how much comes our way after negotiations.
 

HKReds

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He did that last year. It doesn't appear to have helped. Playing a lot of minutes but not getting any better isn't really a help. Improving while playing a backup role for a top club would have been better for him.
I have to disagree on that. He at the age and stage where it is important to play regularly. The problem is finding the right club which although he has a ok start at Wolfsburg, there was a change in manager and that result in a change in role for him (if I remember correctly, he has been pushed to play on the flank as a wide forward vs his prefered role to be more central) that in turn result in a loss of rhythm and productivity on the pitch. Nonetheless, he will still have gain more valuable experience which he will not really gain by staying on the bench and sharing sub minutes with Solanke and Ings.
 

UpTheReds

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I have to disagree on that. He at the age and stage where it is important to play regularly. The problem is finding the right club which although he has a ok start at Wolfsburg, there was a change in manager and that result in a change in role for him (if I remember correctly, he has been pushed to play on the flank as a wide forward vs his prefered role to be more central) that in turn result in a loss of rhythm and productivity on the pitch. Nonetheless, he will still have gain more valuable experience which he will not really gain by staying on the bench and sharing sub minutes with Solanke and Ings.
If he goes to a club that needs immediate production, more than likely that's where they're going to put him because he hasn't proven he can score goals consistently. Which is kind of the entire problem here.

As for "sharing sub minutes with Solanke and Ings" I don't think all 3 would be there. I'll be surprised if Solanke is at Liverpool next year, and Ings is even older and more in need of a chance to prove himself than Origi.
 

UpTheReds

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Think you need to read it again. First line quite clearly states I'm addressing what some fans on here would do if it was up to them as per posts before mine.

On subject of would he leave, are you really suggesting there aren't any clubs out there that would stick Origi on the pitch that Origi would prefer our bench too? He will move on if we want him too. And I'm pretty sure we do. Only question is how much comes our way after negotiations.
Haha spin spin spin.

You referred to fans when talking about "why would they give him more chances". That's all. The rest of what you said is not dependent at all on "what fans would do" (in fact the converse is dependent on Liverpool for some reason being able to do whatever it is you want them to) and is invalid because you act like the club has a choice re: whether the squad is "limited" or not or they "sacrifice" a place to him. And then you go on to imply that Klopp has "moved Origi on already" when clearly he hasn't.

If Origi wants to stay, there's nothing Liverpool can do to change that. Not one thing. That's how contracts work. Again, if folks don't understand this after Fabio Borini, either they weren't fans then (which is fine, I'm not one of *those* that looks down on someone because of how long they've been a fan) or they were and they are just apparently never gonna understand.
 

Red over the water

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I really don't get what Origi has done to have so many on his side willing to give him yet more chances. It would likely be limiting the squads ability to move forward if we sacrificed a place and playing time to another year of trying to get something out of Origi. Klopp is probably the very best qualified person to judge on this and he's moved Origi on already. That loan was supposed to be for the shop window and he didn't look too great on the auction block.
Fair comment. He hasn’t shown us enough.

I’m just sort of harken get back to that time he clicked with Sturridge and we battered Southampton 6-1; or the time when he was scoring consistently for a spell before Funes Mori tried to snap his leg in half.

He wasn’t a world beater by any means, but there were signs. But then since then he has flattered to deceive and hasn’t made too much of a case for himself. I’m puzzled by that as he has all the physical gifts, pace too, but he just sort of lets the game pass him by when you watch him.

I want him to succeed as I still think he could be a player, but I’m more than happy to concede he hasn’t shown nearly enough and if he is moved on there can be no complaints.
 

Irishanfield

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I think people are a bit harsh on Origi, especially looking at his last season:
  • Going to a new league, new language, new culture.
  • Finding himself in a club with a huge lot of instability and internal plots.
  • Having muscular problems right at the start of the new season, making his integration in the team more difficult.
  • Going through three managers.
  • In a permanent battle against relegation, within a team struggling to create many chances.
  • Scoring six goals and making two assists in a league which is strong, make no mistakes about that. A goal in the Bundesliga is every bit as much of value as in the PL.
  • Then one goal and one assist in the two all-important play-off games for Bundesliga survival, thus playing a big part in helping them to stay in the league.
Looking at this, I wouldn't dismiss him yet, not at all. He might not be genuine leader-material, but what he has had to go through this season has been truly shit. Anyone would have struggled if confronted with it I reckon, especially as it was quite unexpected.

Then again, I trust Klopp to make the right call on him, whether it's keeping him or letting him go. Let's see how it goes.
Don't rate him at all .people constantly go on about that bit of goal scoring form he had for us before getting injured against Everton. Yes he scored a few in consecutive games but go back and watch his performances again . they weren't great and probably poor overall
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Don't rate him at all .people constantly go on about that bit of goal scoring form he had for us before getting injured against Everton. Yes he scored a few in consecutive games but go back and watch his performances again . they weren't great and probably poor overall
Remember thinking it all looked very promising. With Firmino work rate and creativity if he could add more goals he would potentially make a great starting CF for us (he's got there now) and that if Origi could continue developing (and particularly his pressing and creativity) he could become a decent back up option. That was always the limit of my hopes based on that run of form others keep going back to. Think a lot more is made of it in hindsight than it deserved.
 

JustHitMyHead

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Wasn't expecting big things when he arrived... but I thought he would turn out to be a decent squad player at least.

Hopefully he can turn it around wherever he goes.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Honestly, it's not the club's choice. If Origi doesn't want to go on loan and doesn't want to sign with another club, he won't. He has a contract. Remember Fabio Borini? Origi has a year left on his contract, and seems to me he'd be smart to try to use it to benefit. He can pursue a move once the club's incomings are set if things are not looking good for him.
TBH, given his agent's comments a week or two back about speaking to a Turkish club about a transfer but waiting to see what Klopp thinks when they see him next, I don't think Origi really wants to stay that badly if leaving is an option, or if he does then he lacks sufficient drive or determination to force his way back into Klopp's thinking if he does decide to give him another shot.

It's disappointing as, on paper, he has the raw ingredients of a top player, but whether he's too nice or too laid back I don't think he's got what he takes to take that next big step.
 
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Chewbazza

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Wasn't expecting big things when he arrived... but I thought he would turn out to be a decent squad player at least.

Hopefully he can turn it around wherever he goes.
I guess it depends what you mean by decent squad player.

A lot of people highly rate Martial and for comparison the last 3 seasons he got:

17 in 49 appearences
8 in 42 appearences
11 in 45 appearences

Origi managed:

10 in 33 appearences
11 in 43 appearences
6 in 34 appearences

Which to me is not massively worse.

In fact have a look round some of the other premier league teams and their players who are considered decent squad options (or even best 11 players) and you'll see that his numbers aren't awful.

Can we do better? Probably. But he's far from the worst player we've had.

I just don't think he's a Klopp player and so will probably be moved on.
 

UpTheReds

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TBH, given his agent's comments a week or two back about speaking to a Turkish club about a transfer but waiting to see what Klopp thinks when they see him next, I don't think Origi really wants to stay that badly if leaving is an option, or if he does then he lacks sufficient drive or determination to force his way back into Klopp's thinking if he does decide to give him another shot.

It's disappointing as, on paper, he has the raw ingredients of a top player, but whether he's too nice or too laid back I don't think he's got what he takes to take that next big step.
I don't know. If the manager tells you that he doesn't see you as a player for him and doesn't think you'll see the field, it seems natural to look at options. I think there's no way that Solanke and Ings are better than him and if Klopp tells him otherwise he's hurting the club. Now if Fekir comes in and is the perfect rotation option to Firmino, then that might be different. But I don't know how Klopp will know that before the season starts given the timing of the World Cup and likelihood that France go deep in it.
 

JustHitMyHead

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I guess it depends what you mean by decent squad player.

A lot of people highly rate Martial and for comparison the last 3 seasons he got:

17 in 49 appearences + 9 assists (4,120 minutes) for a goal or assist every 158 minutes
8 in 42 appearences + 8 assists (2,447 minutes) for a goal or assist every 153 minutes
11 in 45 appearences + 9 assists (2,337 minutes) for a goal or assist every 117 minutes

Origi managed:

10 in 33 appearences + 3 assists (1,564 minutes) for a goal or assist every 120 minutes
11 in 43 appearences + 4 assists (2,081 minutes) for a goal or assist every 139 minutes
6 in 34 appearences + 2 assists ( 2,201 minutes) for a goal or assist every 275 minutes

Which to me is not massively worse.

In fact have a look round some of the other premier league teams and their players who are considered decent squad options (or even best 11 players) and you'll see that his numbers aren't awful.

Can we do better? Probably. But he's far from the worst player we've had.


I just don't think he's a Klopp player and so will probably be moved on.
Good point.

I think most people expected more from Martial as well... but I didn't realise how close they were in terms of numbers. One thing that is troubling though is that Origi's numbers show a decline in performance.
 

RobLFC

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Good point.

I think most people expected more from Martial as well... but I didn't realise how close they were in terms of numbers. One thing that is troubling though is that Origi's numbers show a decline in performance.
Whereas Martial's are improving year-on-year, despite having a manager that seems to have grown an irrational dislike of anyone with attacking talent.

Ignoring him being a Manc, I'd swap Martial with Origi in a heartbeat.
 

Chewbazza

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Good point.

I think most people expected more from Martial as well... but I didn't realise how close they were in terms of numbers. One thing that is troubling though is that Origi's numbers show a decline in performance.
They do, but he did move clubs in that 3rd season .

As I say I think we can improve on him. He certaibly isn't a player who can replace Firmino if we lost him to injury for several months, but as a third choice squad option I think he's okay. But so is Ings and that is why we'd be better to try and move him on.
 

lfc.eddie

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All our old backups can go, keep Solanke and go get one nearing retiring forward with good finishing and positioning skills. That way the player don’t have to have 35-40mins to sort his feet out when called upon. So sell Origi and Ings. We really need a Solsjaer.
 

Prolix

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He has always been known to be talented, but the difference between players who is good enough for Stoke and those who are good enough for Utd is often application as much as it is talent. On his day he has the talent to give even the best defenses hell. He just cannot find that level of performance remotely often enough to be anything more than a midtable player.
I was pretty impressed the second half of this season. Arnautovic scored or assisted in 12 of the last 20 league games he was available for.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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It’s true he is by no means the worst player we have ever had. However if I was to compare him to another player Ryan Babel springs to mind. I think his career will end up very similar.

I am struggling to articulate but he averages 6 out of 10 performances. Prolonged periods though he has been a 5 out of 10 player. For short periods he has been a 7 out of 10 player. If he is every to make it he needs game time, and that wont be here.
 

Gazmaninaus

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Amazing how 67% of Liverpool fans on another site were happy to have Shaquiri at LFC when he came from a relegated Stoke. However don't want Origi who helped his team stay in the division under a year of turmoil and 3 managers. He is a much better player than Solanke and Ings for that matter. He is also a fitter option than Sturridge.
 

Noo Noo

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Amazing how 67% of Liverpool fans on another site were happy to have Shaquiri at LFC when he came from a relegated Stoke. However don't want Origi who helped his team stay in the division under a year of turmoil and 3 managers. He is a much better player than Solanke and Ings for that matter. He is also a fitter option than Sturridge.
At this stage yes he is but to me he feels a bit like a square peg in a round hole when playing for us. (Solanke too for that matter)
 

Scott Jones

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Amazing how 67% of Liverpool fans on another site were happy to have Shaquiri at LFC when he came from a relegated Stoke. However don't want Origi who helped his team stay in the division under a year of turmoil and 3 managers. He is a much better player than Solanke and Ings for that matter. He is also a fitter option than Sturridge.
He might be much better but where's he showing that,nowhere
 
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