Do we need a new Captain?

[Limiescouse]

Why? Kehl was Klopps captain for years and he wasn’t an automatic starter. People think of club captain far too myopian, its a far reaching role.

I think this is very important. Hendo is club captain. Wearing the armband and leading out the side is only a tiny part of that. And whomever is chosen to wear the armband on a given day has no bearing on what license each other player for fixing stuff on the pitch they observe needs to be fixed. VVD isn't going to decline the responsibility of organizing the defensive line at a free kick just because Hendo has the arm band any more than he is going to do it better just because he is wearing it. The armband has no bearing at all on those things.

 

[Iluvatar]

I can only answer for myself here, but its patently obvious that VDV is already orchestrating things on the pitch. He moves players into positions, watch him and you can see it. He is in the Ron Yeats mould of a Colossus, a born leader and a giant those around him respect.
Hendo is not guaranteed his place in the team. The midfield we may see most of will in my view consist of Fabinho, Gini and Shaqiri or Keita. That's not accounting for Oxlade coming back and Miner being a better fit than Hendo anyway. But that's a different argument.
I my opinion VDV will be The next LFC captain to lift a trophy. Stick a tenner on that!

Nothing like Hyypia used to continue to organise the defence when he had Stevie as his captain? The same guy who actually took the armband from him.. Stevie couldn’t organise a defensive line if his life depended on it back then.

Far far too small minded about captains v’s leaders in the team and how both are not mutual exclusive roles.

 

[Quicksand]

Far far too small minded about captains v’s leaders in the team and how both are not mutual exclusive roles.

Who is far too small minded??
I stated from my point of view.
You comparing Hyypias relationship with Gerrard to the contemporary set up makes no sense.

 

[Limiescouse]

Who is far too small minded??
I stated from my point of view.
You comparing Hyypias relationship with Gerrard to the contemporary set up makes no sense.

He is saying it too narrow a perspective to think ONLY of what happens on the pitch during games. He is also saying that whomever is wearing the armband has no bearing on whether player is going to contribute to fixing things on the pitch in real time. Players that do do and players that don't do not. The Hyppia point is relevant because Hyppia's conduct on the pitch and the way he organized his teammates was totally unaltered by the armband being taken off him.

 

[Quicksand]

He is saying it too narrow a perspective to think ONLY of what happens on the pitch during games. He is also saying that whomever is wearing the armband has no bearing on whether player is going to contribute to fixing things on the pitch in real time. Players that do do and players that don't do not. The Hyppia point is relevant because Hyppia's conduct on the pitch and the way he organized his teammates was totally unaltered by the armband being taken off him.

Thanks for clarification on his behalf, but no doubt he can and will do so himself. Anyway, I am aware of leadership styles and responsibilities. And I believe, maybe in an old fashioned way that the captain needs to be on the pitch, most of the time. Gerrard was always going to start games, so Sami handing over the job, or having himself replaced wasn't a big shock. Hendo isnt going to always start, can we agree?? Hendo doesn't show calm collected qualities required ON the pitch. VDV does. Ergo, my view as stated. To be honest I have studied leadership, so I don't need schooling in it.

 

[Zoran]

I think this is very important. Hendo is club captain. Wearing the armband and leading out the side is only a tiny part of that. And whomever is chosen to wear the armband on a given day has no bearing on what license each other player for fixing stuff on the pitch they observe needs to be fixed. VVD isn't going to decline the responsibility of organizing the defensive line at a free kick just because Hendo has the arm band any more than he is going to do it better just because he is wearing it. The armband has no bearing at all on those things.

This is it, everyone should read/know this before posting in this thread.

 

[Quicksand]

This is it, everyone should read/know this before posting in this thread.

Seriously??
We have to agree wih this view before posting in here??

 

[Iluvatar]

Who is far too small minded??
I stated from my point of view.
You comparing Hyypias relationship with Gerrard to the contemporary set up makes no sense.

As Limie explained far more concisely I rest my case with his answer!

 

[Quicksand]

As Limie explained far more concisely I rest my case with his answer!

Sound. We differ in our expectations of leaders. To me it requires a bit more than Hendo offers.

 

[Flobs]

I have studied how to be conceited and obnoxious and I am sure most would agree I pass with flying colours.

 

[Dane]

I think the writing is on the wall for Henderson.
It looks more than likely that VVD will be our skipper next season.

 

[Claymenza]

Henderson is a decent captain in a sense that he keeps things safe, he is professional and doesn't sulk if he's left on the bench.
To a certain extent, milner is similar except he will play better in his thirties than someone like gerrard.

I thought fabinho's performance today spelt the end of henderson as a starter. He's got a forward pass in him.

 

[Iluvatar]

Funny that under his leadership we have had our best ever start to a Premier League campaign. Better than Gerrard ever managed.. yet some people think he won’t be our captain next season.

 

[Nikola]

Funny that under his leadership we have had our best ever start to a Premier League campaign. Better than Gerrard ever managed.. yet some people think he won’t be our captain next season.

Not having a go at you but when you look at the proceedings on the pitch, who looks like de facto captain to you?

 

[GermanRed]

Francesco Totti - one of the greatest club captains in world football wasn't a clear starter for years but still remained captain.

Other clubs have one captain - we have three and things are going very well for us.

 

[[email protected]]

Francesco Totti - one of the greatest club captains in world football wasn't a clear starter for years but still remained captain.

Other clubs have one captain - we have three and things are going very well for us.

Totti was more than just a player. He came to signify Roma, he was a talisman. Any comparison with Henderson's status at Liverpool is just simply incorrect.

 

[ILLOK]

Funny that under his leadership we have had our best ever start to a Premier League campaign. Better than Gerrard ever managed.. yet some people think he won’t be our captain next season.

He's started fewer than half of those games. Not sure that's much of a convincing argument.

 

[lfc.eddie]

Totti was more than just a player. He came to signify Roma, he was a talisman. Any comparison with Henderson's status at Liverpool is just simply incorrect.

I think the comparison he's trying to make is to show that you don't have to be the starter to be the club captain. Which is true.

 

[FilthyBloke]

Henderson is our captain.
We are in the midst of our best ever start to a season.
He hasn’t played in all the games and we have still won.
Captaincy is handy if youre on a ship but on a pitch the real difference is the manager and the natural organisers.

 

[Iluvatar]

He's started fewer than half of those games. Not sure that's much of a convincing argument.

Of course a captain is just something for the 90 minutes..

 

[Iluvatar]

Not having a go at you but when you look at the proceedings on the pitch, who looks like de facto captain to you?

I see several leaders, Klopp is building a team of them. Just like Rafa did.

 

[ILLOK]

Of course a captain is just something for the 90 minutes..

Do you think if Van Dijk was captain we'd be worse off?

Jordan does a fine job as club captain but he's far from the only one who can do it.

Besides, it's an overrated role anyway. It's Klopp's leadership that is important, not Henderson's.

 

[SBYM]

Totti was more than just a player. He came to signify Roma, he was a talisman. Any comparison with Henderson's status at Liverpool is just simply incorrect.

Was in Rome once, standing out the front of the Pantheon, and there was all of a sudden from nowhere a rush of reporters, cameramen etc...a real ruckus...surround the doorway to a nearby palazzo. There must have been 50 of them all within 3m of the door.

WTF is going on here??

Totti.

I only know this because they were all screaming questions at him. Couldn't see a goddamn thing.

 

[Joe Gomez x]

Don't think we need to change captain. What has Hendo actually done wrong? Do 'fans' really want him to be stripped captaincy due to him not being the best player on the pitch , that's not what captaincy is about , its about leadership and inspiration. It is impossible to say what happens behind the scenes from our point of view from outside the training ground but Hendo may be a leader, a person to chat to for the players to give inspiration in times of need .Just because you don't see him spraying balls all round the pitch and scoring like Stevie G doesnt make him less a captain.

 

[Iluvatar]

Do you think if Van Dijk was captain we'd be worse off?

Jordan does a fine job as club captain but he's far from the only one who can do it.

Besides, it's an overrated role anyway. It's Klopp's leadership that is important, not Henderson's.

No, but doesn’t your last statement make the top one redundant anyway? If its all about Klopp then having Lovren captain would have no adverse effects no?

I’d like to believe Henderson has helped Klopp build the team ethos which is serving us so well. Could anyone have done that? In my opinion no it takes a specific type of personality. He could also be part of the reason that pretty much every single player has settled here and have all made significant contributions to the team? I certainly believe he has.

 

[Scott Jones]

I just don't think it matters that much at all and why Klopp has just left the captaincy stay where it was when he arrived,

 

[Claymenza]

Francesco Totti - one of the greatest club captains in world football wasn't a clear starter for years but still remained captain.

Other clubs have one captain - we have three and things are going very well for us.

Good example.

When Fabio Capello took over the england team, he rightly questioned why there is a fascination with having the title of 'captain'.

He famously cited Marcelo Lippi's side which had leadership all over the place and fielded del piero, gattuso, pirlo, totti, canavaro and buffon. All players who rotated the captaincy. So it did not matter who the captain was. For england, it's a ceremonial sign.
The irony of this is, Zidane was the defacto captain of the french team which lost to the italians. Had he stayed on, they might have won.

Henderson is a captain for the england team as well, for his professionalism. As much as you think he's average, brendan rodgers felt that way too until he saw the commitment he put in. Worst case scenario, we'll play him at centre back.

 

[Dane]

For the record, Henderson has done nothing wrong as captain, and I am not calling for him to have it removed.
But, and maybe it's just me being old school, there's something significant about having a club captain who not only leads well but starts (almost) every game.

Who knows, Henderson may just improve as a player without the captains responsibility. Hyypia being a fairly decent example.

 

[lfc.eddie]

Henderson is a captain for the england team as well, for his professionalism. As much as you think he's average, brendan rodgers felt that way too until he saw the commitment he put in. Worst case scenario, we'll play him at centre back.

Now that's Brendan Rodgers in you talking, Henderson as centre half just so he can retain his captaincy?

We don't need to change if we don't have to, and we also don't know how it would impact the players around him and the camaraderie of the squad if we were to remove him as our captain. Hyypia is a very special case and him handing it over to Gerrard is also a very special player. Not many can take that sort of move without feeling a bit let down.

Captain of the club should be given the responsible for making sure the players can look up to when they needed help on and off the pitch. So far for me, Henderson needs a bit more showing in that department. Remember Coutinho spoke to him about moving? His reply was - "it wasn't his place to advice the player what to do". Then cast your mind back to Suarez and Torres, Gerrard told Suarez to give us one more year and also advice Torres to leave if he isn't happy, he didn't shy away from that responsibility. That's just one example.

I don't think a captaincy should be awarded to a player just because he worked the hardest. I think he has to be more than just a very committed hard-worker.

 

[Claymenza]

Now that's Brendan Rodgers in you talking, Henderson as centre half just so he can retain his captaincy?

We don't need to change if we don't have to, and we also don't know how it would impact the players around him and the camaraderie of the squad if we were to remove him as our captain. Hyypia is a very special case and him handing it over to Gerrard is also a very special player. Not many can take that sort of move without feeling a bit let down.

Captain of the club should be given the responsible for making sure the players can look up to when they needed help on and off the pitch. So far for me, Henderson needs a bit more showing in that department. Remember Coutinho spoke to him about moving? His reply was - "it wasn't his place to advice the player what to do". Then cast your mind back to Suarez and Torres, Gerrard told Suarez to give us one more year and also advice Torres to leave if he isn't happy, he didn't shy away from that responsibility. That's just one example.

I don't think a captaincy should be awarded to a player just because he worked the hardest. I think he has to be more than just a very committed hard-worker.

The centre back comment was made in jest. Commitment means more than hard work.
Hyypia showed he had leadership by passing gerrard the ceremonial baton. It helped him become a more sensible player while Hyypia was already cool and collected.

What rodgers like about henderson was that he was willing to alter his game and pass the ball better on the deck in the possession style he was looking for. If he was the safe-sideways option, gerrard was the go forward option. Henderson suited gerrard, more than shelvey who was too similar to our captain.

Henderson never sulked when rodgers came in and deployed shelvey, suso, allen, and what have you.
*runs hand through meticulously gelled hair*

A true leader does not need an armband. Right now, things are fine. There is literally no need to play both henderson and milner at the same time unless milner is filling in at full back. Keita and fabinho provide more balance.