Do we need a new Captain?

Should Jordan Henderson be captain of Liverpool for the 2018-19 season?

  • Yes

  • No


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Hi folks,

This is my first contribution on this forum!

I don't feel we need a new captain at this time as I think Henderson does a good job of leading the team. Of course he can improve both in terms of his play and as captain but he is a responsible person, will do anything for the team and for me has done a decent job.

Also really if we wanted to replace him as captain with someone else within the squad who else is there? Milner? he doesn't start enough to warrant it. None of the defenders show much leadership so I wouldn't put them as contenders for captain.

So when I look at the current squad to me the only alternatives are Lallana and Wijnaldum maybe......but he too goes missing in games as much as Henderson.

I think our next captain will be someone not yet in the squad.
 

Abdel

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Abdel, or if I may call you Chicago Red (were you also a big fan of Benteke btw?), I may be wrong but I'm struggling to recall a single post from you were you don't directly reference Henderson or make some snide remark about him. Obsessed much?

FWIW I think Hendo's recent performances have bordered on shocking. I'm wondering if he's carrying another injury as there is loss of form but presently he is at a level below that. In terms of captaincy, none of your list applies. As far as I'm aware Firmino's English isn't that good and neither is Coutinho's. That is disappointing as he has been with us for almost five years so has had plenty of time to learn. Besides which, Coutinho is almost a wallflower, so quiet is he. Salah's English seems to be not much better than elementary level. Mané (and the same goes for Firmino and Salah) can be ruled out as I can't recall an attacking player ever being a great captain and leader. Forwards by their very nature are selfish beasts.

Two other points raised in this thread which are worth commenting on.

The first being changing captain in mid season. Paisley did it to Phil Thompson in January 1982 as he thought the pressure of the captaincy was detracting from his own game and so passed the armband to Souness. Was it a success? Damn right it was. After our worst spell of results under Paisley (we were 12th in the table at the time) we stormed through the second half of the season to win the league and League Cup. However, given the lack of Souness type alternative to take over we'll be better off sticking than twisting this season.

The other point raised was in regard to appointing a new / recent signing as captain. Souness did this by passing Mark Wright the armband not long after he had joined from Derby in the summer of '91 (he had skippered them for a few seasons). It was one of the better moves by Souness during his shambolic reign as manager, not that there were many good moves by him. Hansen had retired, Whelan was becoming injury prone, as were Molby and Nicol, while McMahon was moved on to Man City halfway through the season.

Both changing captain mid season and appointing a relatively recent signing to the role but not in our case due to the lack of options. Hendo stays in situ by default. WIll be interesting to see who Klopp hands the armband to when Hendo is rotated or injured during the remainder of this season.
Theres this odd threading on eggshells thing regarding Henderson like people are scared to call him out.

I think Souness came closest when he said "The modern midfielder gets away with murder because he takes easy options and the stats say he's a good passer." everyone knew who he was talking about, he just refused to say it.

Big question of just how long Klopp can keep doggedly supporting Henderson despite the likelihood that he will inevitably play as badly again this season. He is a high-vis liability in midfield and his abjectly poor performances recently should mean that he is dropped. It's not even a debateable point anymore.

What makes it worse is that as time goes on Klopp seems more and more puzzled and confused by the outcomes of his own team choices. At best he appears to be in denial about the fact that his faith in players like Henderson is going to cause problems and at worst he keeps making the same costly mistakes.
 

Iluvatar

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Theres this odd threading on eggshells thing regarding Henderson like people are scared to call him out.

I think Souness came closest when he said "The modern midfielder gets away with murder because he takes easy options and the stats say he's a good passer." everyone knew who he was talking about, he just refused to say it.

Big question of just how long Klopp can keep doggedly supporting Henderson despite the likelihood that he will inevitably play as badly again this season. He is a high-vis liability in midfield and his abjectly poor performances recently should mean that he is dropped. It's not even a debateable point anymore.

What makes it worse is that as time goes on Klopp seems more and more puzzled and confused by the outcomes of his own team choices. At best he appears to be in denial about the fact that his faith in players like Henderson is going to cause problems and at worst he keeps making the same costly mistakes.
Genuine question.. Who is better than Henderson in our current squad?

Can - Already sipping Chianti and thinking of spending his summer in the Italian Riviera.
Milner - Legs cannot deliver what the mind wants. A year past it, we are letting his legs go on our watch.
Gini - Mr inconsistent, invisible away from home, hardly makes any tackles even when on song.
Grujic - Rash, young and just not ready to be the mainstay of a top 4 side.

Look I think we can do better for an on the pitch captain than Henderson, I think ultimately we can do better in the no.6 than Henderson, but currently considering we cannot sign any player at present, I do not see a better option for either.
 

costared

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Henderson is not the greatest but his biggest problem is that he is often our only mid fielder. Gini often does not get involved enough, especially away from home and Coutinho is to lightweight and to attack minded therefore is not very effective when we are under pressure.
 

Noo Noo

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Theres this odd threading on eggshells thing regarding Henderson like people are scared to call him out.

I think Souness came closest when he said "The modern midfielder gets away with murder because he takes easy options and the stats say he's a good passer." everyone knew who he was talking about, he just refused to say it.

Big question of just how long Klopp can keep doggedly supporting Henderson despite the likelihood that he will inevitably play as badly again this season. He is a high-vis liability in midfield and his abjectly poor performances recently should mean that he is dropped. It's not even a debateable point anymore.

What makes it worse is that as time goes on Klopp seems more and more puzzled and confused by the outcomes of his own team choices. At best he appears to be in denial about the fact that his faith in players like Henderson is going to cause problems and at worst he keeps making the same costly mistakes.
I think its more of a horrible realisation that the PL is tough and certain squad members aren't doing what they're supposed to.....................AGAIN.

I'm certain he's aware of the problem and I'd like to see how he gets round it. Introducing a double pivot was probably a start but yet again the players haven't been able to play it.
 

Semmy

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Introducing a double pivot was probably a start but yet again the players haven't been able to play it.
What game did we begin that setup? Because I have been seeing an exclusive single of Henderson since Klopp rolled out the 4-3-3 and the variants derived from it.

Slim chance that Milner and Henderson were playing a double vs Chelsea.
 

Genius

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For me, I think Hendo is being weighed down by the burden of Captaincy. Remember Hyypia had the same issue before passing the armband to Stevie.

Obviously there is no way in hell we are changing captains midway through the season ( the results can be disastrous)

RIght now looking at our roster, there a few kinds of leaders that we can look at

I believe Mo can be a captain, leading by example, inspiring the team with passion (Much like Suarez when he captained the games)

Deputies would be Bobby and Lallana

However the captain is not the only issue, we need leaders from the back to front.

At the back Migs, matip , lovern, klavan, moreno, trent, gomez they are all not leaders. It has been devoid of leaders since Kolo, Carra and Lucas left.

In the middle of the park, while there are some leadership in hendo and can, it's sorely missing the unifying leadership and the balls to do whatever it takes to win the games. Stevie, Alonso and Masch are great example

At the front, that's where we have been doing well so obviously the issue is not there.
 

se7ensshirt

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It was never going to be a winning situation for Henderson following on from Stevie, and having read the whole thread there’s this “Best of a bad bunch” attitude about it.
His work ethic is high and his work rate even higher, but he’s not a typical captain who can turn a game, or bring fear into the eyes of the opposition.
The greater issue with Henderson is that he doesn’t know how to manage the game, too often we look extremely fragile with the lead and that hardness we have had with past captains is missing, no one fears him, and no one takes the lead from what he is doing on the pitch. Sad but true. I agree with an earlier comment that our real captain is not in the squad yet.
 

Semmy

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For me, I think Hendo is being weighed down by the burden of Captaincy. Remember Hyypia had the same issue before passing the armband to Stevie.

Obviously there is no way in hell we are changing captains midway through the season ( the results can be disastrous)

RIght now looking at our roster, there a few kinds of leaders that we can look at

I believe Mo can be a captain, leading by example, inspiring the team with passion (Much like Suarez when he captained the games)

Deputies would be Bobby and Lallana

However the captain is not the only issue, we need leaders from the back to front.

At the back Migs, matip , lovern, klavan, moreno, trent, gomez they are all not leaders. It has been devoid of leaders since Kolo, Carra and Lucas left.

In the middle of the park, while there are some leadership in hendo and can, it's sorely missing the unifying leadership and the balls to do whatever it takes to win the games. Stevie, Alonso and Masch are great example

At the front, that's where we have been doing well so obviously the issue is not there.
Henderson is also being weighed down by being played out of position. He has always excelled in the more advanced positions and the #6 isn't his strength. Need someone who knows the single pivot role for the 4-3-3 and let him concentrate on the armband role and the position he knows how to play which is #8
 

Noo Noo

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What game did we begin that setup? Because I have been seeing an exclusive single of Henderson since Klopp rolled out the 4-3-3 and the variants derived from it.

Slim chance that Milner and Henderson were playing a double vs Chelsea.
Apologies for the late reply.

Other than the odd little dabble with 4-2-3-1 the step change happened at West Ham where at times were were 4-2-4. The key issue was that the 2 in midfield were more disciplined in their positioning. We were also a little deeper overall.

Worth noting that the positional discipline of the midfield hasn't been as solid since, hence the stick Henderson has been rightly getting.
 

fcukManU

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Wyld@Heart said:
Sakho before his fall from grace [...] and obviously Sakho has departed.
Sakho always has been prime captain material, which is goddamn shame! Out of the current lot, I'm happy with Henderson though.
 
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Hendo is a Teammate, but with each passing month he gets older and worse ...
Nobody who replace Him? I can no longer see Mignolet as Captain, I get scared.

When Couts goes? Firmino, that is the Answer. When Couts goes, make Firmino to the new #10 and give him the Armband...

Vice-Captain maybe Lallana or in Future TAA, or because of the attitude, one of our Power Strikers.
 

Noo Noo

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You cant just go out and buy a captain and nobody jumps out from the current playing squad to step in as captain.
That says a lot right there doesn't it? Not one player in the squad looks like the team's captain. Go back a few years and there was 3-4 in the side. Go back further and you find the same.

I would say Milner from the current squad but I'm really clutching at straws considering he's not a first choice player at the moment and he's not exactly renowned for his leadership skills. Lead by example (of effort) maybe?

I think it shows that we're missing some real clout somewhere.
 

Incognito

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Just one game and too premature to judge anything, but Coutinho did step up in the role well. If only the Barca nonsense doesn't happen.. a player who can change games is one good quality to have in a captain. Too early to judge, but that was a good captains' performance yesterday.

Whether he can lift up his game and the teams' when the chips are down and secondly if he will stay is there to be seen. Liked what I saw yesterday though.
 

Prolix

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If we change captains, the next one will either be Lallana (perhaps depending on fitness) or van Dijk. Probably the latter.
 

indianscouser

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From this current team, Henderson is the correct choice.
I don't think Klopp will change the captaincy unless Henderson is deemed not good enough for starting.
Lallana looks a decent shout. Was captain at Southampton also.
 

Noo Noo

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See I'd like to see someone with real oomph. A player that has some real power and authority.

Coutinho isn't that player for me. Lallana probably isn't either I guess.
 

Quicksand

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Coutinho was the perfect captain last night. Particularly when he went to Moreno following the injury. That shows empathy and leadership. If it helps to keep him here then just make him captain now. Hendo isn't a real nailed on starter, he will get less game time when Keita arrives. Time for change is now.
 

Redsi73

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How does a manager break it to the current captain that he is changing to another player in the squad.

Would be a most uncomfortable conversation for sure.
 

auzziez

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How does a manager break it to the current captain that he is changing to another player in the squad.

Would be a most uncomfortable conversation for sure.
Just say you are more required on weekend so I will bench you tonight and let him have the captain's armband lol
 

redaderry

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Didn't he take it from Coutinho and give it to Milner when he came on last night?
 



gobble gobble

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Hi folks,

This is my first contribution on this forum!

I don't feel we need a new captain at this time as I think Henderson does a good job of leading the team. Of course he can improve both in terms of his play and as captain but he is a responsible person, will do anything for the team and for me has done a decent job.

Also really if we wanted to replace him as captain with someone else within the squad who else is there? Milner? he doesn't start enough to warrant it. None of the defenders show much leadership so I wouldn't put them as contenders for captain.

So when I look at the current squad to me the only alternatives are Lallana and Wijnaldum maybe......but he too goes missing in games as much as Henderson.

I think our next captain will be someone not yet in the squad.
I think Jurgen should have identified Henderson as a player that needed to be moved on at the end of his first season. Leaving the Captaincy issue aside , he is simply a bog standard player who continues to offer nothing to the team .
 

gobble gobble

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How does a manager break it to the current captain that he is changing to another player in the squad.

Would be a most uncomfortable conversation for sure.
Eddie Jones did it to Robshaw . This is elite sport and if a players bottom lip starts to shake when he hears bad news , he needs shipping out. It's all about putting the team first and not worrying about upsetting people.
Look , i'll be honest , this team team is so bereft of leaders , it doesn't matter at the moment who is Captain.
I thought Klopp would have brought a player in he had already worked with , who he could trust , to be his Captain. But no.
 

Iluvatar

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Eddie Jones did it to Robshaw . This is elite sport and if a players bottom lip starts to shake when he hears bad news , he needs shipping out. It's all about putting the team first and not worrying about upsetting people.
Look , i'll be honest , this team team is so bereft of leaders , it doesn't matter at the moment who is Captain.
I thought Klopp would have brought a player in he had already worked with , who he could trust , to be his Captain. But no.
Robshaw is a mainstay of the fucking team, your post is just woefully inaccurate, weak and poor.