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Fernando Llorente (ST) Athletic Bilbao

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Macedonian_Red

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Accomodating Llorente into the team shouldn't be a measure used against Rodgers. If he bought Llorente and couldn't adapt him into the team, that'd be a worry. But if he doesn't want him, then that's no indictment of the man. He doesn't need to be a pragmatic mastermind, he just needs to be good at his system.

Also, what he does for Muniain is completely irrelevant
What he does for Muniain is irrelevant? You mean, if Llorente helps Suarez with his great link-up play to become even more dangerous and effective, it would be irrelevant?

Cant see why we would want him. Not suited to possesion football at all.
Mate, I am saying this in good faith: Start watching some La Liga football ...
 


Arminius

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If Rodgers can't incorporate a tactically developed player like Llorente into his system, then I will be seriously disappointed with our manager ... Llorente is not some one trick pony like Huntelaar ... He is a superbly developed player in tactical terms, and makes the other attackers around him better players ... Just look at the performances of Muniain last season (9 goals and 8 assists in 58 games), when he was playing next to Llorente, and this season (1 goal and 2 assists in 20 games), when Llorente has been frozen out of the team ...
Not quite the point of the thread, but it is really heart-breaking to see Bilbao this season compared to last. Your example of Munain is really just the tip of the iceberg. Not all down to Llorente being frozen out, but between that and losing Martinez, a promising and entertaining team has simply evaporated.
 

OhYaBeauty

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What he does for Muniain is irrelevant? You mean, if Llorente helps Suarez with his great link-up play to become even more dangerous and effective, it would be irrelevant?
Mac, you know better than to categorically declare that since he helps Muniain, he'd do the same for Suarez. They might have some similarities, but they don't play the same way or even in the same position. We don't have Muniain in our team, so what Llorente does for him is completely irr
 

redfanman

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Mac, you know better than to categorically declare that since he helps Muniain, he'd do the same for Suarez. They might have some similarities, but they don't play the same way or even in the same position. We don't have Muniain in our team, so what Llorente does for him is completely irr
I dont understand why it's irrelevant. We arent saying he should come solely for his goalscoring feats but also because of his ability to link up with other players...
 

Macedonian_Red

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Mac, you know better than to categorically declare that since he helps Muniain, he'd do the same for Suarez. They might have some similarities, but they don't play the same way or even in the same position. We don't have Muniain in our team, so what Llorente does for him is completely irr
I see ... In your opinion, the ability of an attacking player to link up well with the other attacking players on the team is irrelevant ... OK ...
 



OhYaBeauty

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Yep, that's exactly what I said. And I should add that I've never watched football before and everything I know comes from football manager
 

lfc.8

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Yep, that's exactly what I said. And I should add that I've never watched football before and everything I know comes from football manager
Chin up lad. Just clarify what you mean. A couple of different posters do see it as relevant. What Llorente contributes and so forth. In this case, the example being Muniain. What this could perhaps bring to our club, if indeed he was signed.
 

OhYaBeauty

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Chin up lad. Just clarify what you mean. A couple of different posters do see it as relevant. What Llorente contributes and so forth. In this case, the example being Muniain. What this could perhaps bring to our club, if indeed he was signed.
That was my easy way out of conversing with Mac_Red. Because whenever I talk to him, I feel like this:


What I mean, is that what one player does for another cannot simply be translated to a third player. In other words, saying since Player A makes Player B better, buying Player A will make Player C better on a completely different team. Liverpool Football club has done that before. Player A (Downing) made Player B (Agbonlahor and Young) better players, so we bought him thinking he'd instantly be able to provide ammunition for Player C (Carroll). We all know how that worked out.

Just to preempt the inevitable "Downing is crap, we're talking about Llorente", I'd like to calmly remind everyone here that Downing was a classy winger during his time at Villa, a regular England international and a solid goalscorer and assist provider.
 

Macedonian_Red

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Anyone who claims that Stewart Downing was ever on the same level as Fernando Llorente, has never watched football before and everything he knows about the game comes from Football Manager ...
 

redfanman

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I wouldnt say Downing was classy. He was certainly functional and effective.

I'm glad you took the time to expand on your comments because these threads need this kind of depth in these threads.

However, while i agree we can't take for granted how a player will perform at a new club, we can at least speculate how they may affect other players around them. At least, i would much rather read something along those lines in this thread than another post asking why would we want another target man if we arent willing to use Carroll lol
 



Prolix

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Anyone who claims that Stewart Downing was ever on the same level as Fernando Llorente, has never watched football before and everything he knows about the game comes from Football Manager ...
It's a good thing no one made that claim, eh?
 

Macedonian_Red

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http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpbyqw_jugadas-athletic-de-bilbao-vs-manchester-united-1-parte_sport#.UM5apeR5J-c

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpc9gv_jugadas-athletic-de-bilbao-vs-manchester-united-2-parte_sport#.UM5bR-R5J-c
 

ILLOK

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OhYaMeltdown you're clearly just seeking out an argument with mac_red, there's nothing wrong with what he's posted on this page. I don't see how pointing out the fact that Llorente helps to bring in players around him when other people have stated that he's not suited to possession football and there's an implication that he's in any way similar to Carroll (because of his height, I'm assuming) is "irrelevant".

Nik, Stoke and West Ham have a team full of players that fit their system perfectly. Swansea did last year too.

These teams will all do relatively well because of this simple fact, yet they're never going to be world beaters because the bottom line is the players they have, regardless of their stylistic suitability, just aren't that good. Laudrup's brought in the likes of Michu and Hernandez and straight away Swansea look far more potent going forward, because these players are of higher quality than those they've replaced. It's really very simple.

I don't think Llorente is unsuitable to the type of football we're reportedly looking at playing but for arguments sake I'll pretend he is. Would you rather we brought in Llorente and compromised our system slightly or do you think we'd be better off integrating players like Ince and Sturride, who on paper look more suitable to Rodgers' supposed blueprint?

For me, you choose the pragmatic approach and you swallow your pride and change your system. If it was a choice between players like Reus/Schurle/Rodriguez and others of a similar quality, then I'd see where you're coming from. But surely you wouldn't agree that Nathan Dyer/Scott Sinclair/Daniel Sturride/Tom Ince type players should even be considered ahead of Llorente, who's already proven himself to be a top class player and consistent match winner.

I can't get my head around this way of thinking, it seems like you're just trying to be too clever when football matches are primarily won on the basis of which team has the better players.
 

OhYaBeauty

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OhYaMeltdown you're clearly just seeking out an argument with mac_red, there's nothing wrong with what he's posted on this page. I don't see how pointing out the fact that Llorente helps to bring in players around him when other people have stated that he's not suited to possession football and there's an implication that he's in any way similar to Carroll (because of his height, I'm assuming) is "irrelevant".
I never had a meltdown, and I also never compared Llorente to Carroll. I did use Carroll to make a separate point, that just because one player makes another player better doesn't mean he'll make a third better, but there was no comparison involved, thanks. As for the bit about seeking out an argument with Mac, I generally go out of my way to avoid being in the same topic as him. First time in weeks that I actually quote him and all of the sudden I'm "seeking out an argument". Hmmm
 

Nikola

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ILLOK, Stoke, West Ham and Swansea are doing pretty well for their level of ambition. I would even say that they have overachieved in short-term. They buy what they need and their players fit their respective manager's style.

I never said that Llorente wouldn't fit Rodgers' style of football, I think I made it clear that my opinion is opposite actually. All I'm saying is that getting such type of a player (where I included Huntelaar, too) could be detrimental to Suarez' impact on our football and that he might require a different type of player to Sturridge on the opposite flank. If Suarez wasn't here, I'd love someone like Llorente or Lewandowski. However, with Suarez here, I'm of opinion that a wide goalscorer (two actually) should be our priority.

Just to make it clear, I never compared Llorente to Sturridge and Ince, even in terms of possible impact at LFC - like you, I think that we should be looking to find the likes of Rodgriguez and Reus but I primarily want to Liverpool to form an identity first (actually, more like "restore our old identity"). We lacked that over the course of past two to three years. We lacked that when Houllier was here. We bought all kinds of players in those periods of our history and tried to fit them in. That didn't work and I'm sure it won't ever work for us.

In the end, quality of players can be decisive to matches but it is easier to ensure that the quality of your overall squad and your football is higher if you form a clear style of play and carefully seek players who fit into it. Given that we have a manager who isn't flexible like, say, Rafa in terms of making the best out of players who don't fit his style of play, I would like to see him firmly deciding on it and believing in his "philosophy". It turned out well for Barcelona. It turned out well for Swansea and Wigan. Call me delusional but following your ideals to the letter isn't just a sign of stubbornness and pride but also of self-confidence and faith.
 



REDSkins

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Both Nikola and ILLOK make good points (relates to the "is it a ST we really need?" thread).

Let's just ask Luis Suarez who to sign...

This question of "style" vs "quality" reminds me of the question of signing a player to unlock a packed defense vs a player to enhance the speed & precision of our counter-attacks.

Ultimately we need both. If one player can fulfill both situations, great, but if we need 2 different players for this then so be it.

If Llorente is attainable, we must consider him. You put Luis at LW and it's a very different result than Assaidi at LW. Assaidi will play "wide" but Luis won't. You'll just have to adjust the tactics of the fullback or DM behind him to cover.

Our 433 doesn't need to be so static. Suarez can take up ST position when we're not in possession (pressing and harassing defenders), with Llorente coming deeper, then they can switch positions when we are in possession and/or the opposition have men behind the ball. Unlike Andy Carroll, who we used only for flick-ons from that deeper position, Llorente actually can dribble past players and his passing is excellent for a striker.

If we are Chelsea and can pick from any player in the world, we can debate ""J. Rodriguez + Aubameyang " or "Lens + Llorente"?" but since our club is in the position it's in, we must simply go after the best quality possible and then adjust other targets accordingly. In any case, Rodgers won't buy a player he doesn't think will fit in, so I don't think we should worry about that. He knows what he wants better than we do, so the only question is if he'll get the backing (F$G) and the salesmanship (Ayre?) to pull off the deal.
 

Macedonian_Red

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Llorente closing in on Juventus switch

Thursday, December 20, 2012

Arsenal and Liverpool target Fernando Llorente is reportedly set to meet Juventus officials on Monday in a bid to thrash out a deal that will see him leave Athletic Bilbao next month.

The Spaniard is a man in demand after he fell out of favour with Athletic's management over the summer.
The 27-year-old forward is out of contract at the end of the season and has so far refused to sign a new deal that would keep him in Spain.

And that has led to speculation that he will be sold in January, with Juventus currently leading the chase.

Tuttosport claim that the player and his representatives will meet with officials from Juventus and Athletic in Bilbao on Monday in a bid to secure a move.

But they also believe that Juventus are refusing to offer over £3.3m to sign Llorente in January, arguing that they would be able to sign him for nothing in the summer.

And if Athletic accept it will be up to the English sides to decide whether they want to match the bid.

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/transfer-rumours/121220/llorente-closing-juventus-switch-187789?
 

norwegian wood

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£3.3m for Llorente? I know the situation is a bit rotten, but that would be far beyond dirt cheap. Should be quite a few clubs lining up if that's the case. Personally I'd guess about 10m++, depending on how desperate the buying club is.
 

MarkMcC

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If article is correct he's in Turin with his agents well it seems he's doing as this forum expected and is in process of signing for a prestigious club that can offer ECL football. No surprise there
 



gasband

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Llorente is a fantastic player and I cannot imagine that top sides will not want a player like him in their team. In reality of course, even at 3.3mil which seems very low, I am almost certain that some of the top sides will not even bid for him. Maybe because they already have enough strikers or they do not want to pay over the top wages for him or simply they do not think he just fit into the team at the moment. Not having every single big team bidding for him does not mean he is not a good player, as i said, he is a really good one.

What I would not understand is that the insistence is that Llorente is the solution to all our problems even to the point that it is certain that if we signed Llorente, there will only be good days ahead. And worse still, if Llorente comes, and he does not perform, apparently, it will be BR's fault because Llorente is just too good to not perform.

Again, all these one sided discussions is getting very draining on people who actually want to read well balanced discussions. I apologized in advanced if I do not seem knowledgeable enough for this board because all I want is to participate in a board that does not involve people talking down to each other just to prove their point.

Good day everyone.
 

Nikola

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Juventus have been favourites to sign him since last summer, I'd be surprised if he ended up somewhere else. He'd fit there like a glove as he's not just some limited poacher.
 

lfc.eddie

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He seems to want to go there too, but Juve being Juve, they don't want to pay the club now. They would rather wait till summer which they can definitely afford to do so sitting at the top of their league.
 

mafiaman20

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I had the opportunity to interview Guillem Balague recently; he said that Liverpool would love to get Llorente but he remains out of their reach with his most likely destination being Juventus but not until the summer.
 

RaoulDuke

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Of course he is a great player. I like the lad since I saw him in a euros 2012 qualifier.
But I doubt he would come to liverpool. Especially if clubs like juve are interested.
Would rather like to see Llorente than hunterlaar at LFC.
 



The Elusive 19th

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If Juve is offering less than 4m, should we march in with a 5-6m offer?

"Llorente wants to move only to Juve will be less of a factor" if Bilabao sees that we are willing to outbid Juve.

I mean thats more or less the same money we are planning to spend on Ince.
 

RaoulDuke

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Can they sell him to us if he doesn't want to come?
No. But it might be worth a try.
 

gingerbread

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Well how about about we loan him from Bilbao till Summer, when Juventus comes to pick him up for free?

Juventus can get free deal. Bilbao got him off wage book (and maybe 500k or so) as they won't play him anyway. We get a decent striker for 6 moths and chances to convince him to us. Llorente get some match fitness, free training, and a chance to shine in EPL

Everyone wins
 

lfc.eddie

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5mil, just try and buy him. No harm trying is it? Bloody hell, why loan?
 



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