• Hey Guest!
    Enjoy the This Is Anfield Forums but want to remove the adverts? Now you can do so by clicking here.
    Thanks for your support!

Hatem Ben Arfa (AM) Newcastle

Status
Not open for further replies.

Matt

Poor Scouser Tommy
Admin
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Messages
8,812
Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/feb/05/liverpool-newcastle-hatem-ben-arfa



Liverpool consider move for Newcastle forward Hatem Ben Arfa
• Frenchman could be used in exchange deal for Andy Carroll
• Newcastle interested in re-signing £35m England striker



Brendan Rodgers will consider a move for Hatem Ben Arfa this summer as the Liverpool manager looks to capitalise on the uncertainty surrounding the midfielder's future at Newcastle United and the prospect of Andy Carroll returning to St James' Park.
Rodgers is a firm admirer of the France international, who has made no secret of his desire to play for Paris Saint-Germain. Ben Arfa did not push for a move in the January transfer window, as he recovers from a hamstring injury, but Newcastle's resolve to keep the player is likely to be tested at the end of the season. The 25-year-old has a contract at Newcastle to the summer of 2015 and would command a sizeable fee.
Ben Arfa is older than all the signings Liverpool have made since Rodgers became manager and Newcastle's asking price could prove an obstacle, but their interest in re-signing Carroll could work to the Anfield club's advantage and an exchange deal.
West Ham United have an option to buy Carroll at the end of his season-long loan but Liverpool dropped their demand for a guaranteed move to remove the £35m striker from their wage bill in August.
 


DeathOrGlory

Fortune Favours the Gegenpress
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
7,029
Injuries a worry though. He's not played a full 90 since mid November....and he has a hamstring injury right now with an unknown return date.

Swap Carroll for Ben Arfa and I'll laugh my arse off. Would be a brilliant piece of work. Ashley is dumb enough to pull it off.

I'd rather Tiote or Cabaye.
 

rupzzz

TIA Regular
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
6,992
Cabaye over him anyday for sure.

Tiote's had his injuries too.
 

Speckydodge

TIA Squad Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
2,603
Would rather the 17m for Andy from west ham to use elsewhere. Ben Arfa is a wonderfull player but far to injury prone.
 
S

showmethemoney

Guest
Matt said:
• Frenchman could be used in exchange deal for Andy Carroll
• Newcastle interested in re-signing £35m England striker
So IF West Ham stay up, which I'm guessing they will, they have a deal with Liverpool for a said to be 17M pounds.

But the deal is not only dependant on West Ham staying up, it's also dependant on Andy Carroll himself wanting to stay & agree terms.

So basically, the agreement we have with West Ham isn't worth the paper it's written on.

I have thought FSG's willingness to spend some dosh this January was on the gaurentee of the Andy Carroll money from West Ham.

Is that wrong?
 



ChicagoRed

Banned Users
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
6,834
showmethemoney said:
So IF West Ham stay up, which I'm guessing they will, they have a deal with Liverpool for a said to be 17M pounds.

But the deal is not only dependant on West Ham staying up, it's also dependant on Andy Carroll himself wanting to stay & agree terms.

So basically, the agreement we have with West Ham isn't worth the paper it's written on.

I have thought FSG's willingness to spend some dosh this January was on the gaurentee of the Andy Carroll money from West Ham.

Is that wrong?
Much like any deal really so what's the difference? I'm going to assume the Carroll money plus any other sales in the summer will be put on top of what we normally spend in the summer.

As far as the player, has an awesome left foot and would be good to play up top until Sterling is able to be 22 or so.
 
S

showmethemoney

Guest
ChicagoRed said:
Much like any deal really so what's the difference?
Difference is, our deal with West Ham is for 17 million which many would agree is a decent price for the big man.

Do you think Newcastle United would want to pay anything remotely close to that?

I don't.
 

ChicagoRed

Banned Users
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
6,834
showmethemoney said:
Difference is, our deal with West Ham is for 17 million which many would agree is a decent price for the big man.

Do you think Newcastle United would want to pay anything remotely close to that?

I don't.
I don't know if they will or not. Them fighting off relegation might put pressure on them to match the offer in the summer. We know Colocini is good as gone and is a big part of the club being captain and all. We don't have to sell him to Newcastle if we don't want to much like Andy dosen't have to agree to West Ham. The agreement with West Ham is good because both clubs have gotten all the business done that needs to be. Like every other transfer it dosen't mean it's worth the paper it's written on until the player agrees. Looks like him and Big Sam are fond of each other.

We simply can tell Andy we are not going to sell you back to Newcastle unless they match West Ham's bid so you can either sit your arse on the bench here or be a big part of what West Ham want to do.
 
S

showmethemoney

Guest
ChicagoRed said:
I don't know if they will or not. Them fighting off relegation might put pressure on them to match the offer in the summer. We know Colocini is good as gone and is a big part of the club being captain and all. We don't have to sell him to Newcastle if we don't want to much like Andy dosen't have to agree to West Ham. The agreement with West Ham is done because both clubs have gotten all the business done that needs to be. Like every other transfer it dosen't mean it's worth the paper it's written on until the player agree's. Looks like him and Big Sam are fond of each other.
Basically, my only point here is if AC doesn't fancy West Ham or Fat Samantha, which would be perfectly understandable, he could pull the plug on the deal & ultimately that could cost us a big chunk of change.

Brendan has made it abundantly clear he doesn't want him at Liverpool, so that takes a lot of our bargaining position away.

If AC is insistent he wants Newcastle & only Newcastle, I don't see how we won't lose a lot of money.

You're right though, it isn't worth the paper its written on.
 

ChicagoRed

Banned Users
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
6,834
showmethemoney said:
Basically, my only point here is if AC doesn't fancy West Ham or Fat Samantha, which would be perfectly understandable, he could pull the plug on the deal & ultimately that could cost us a big chunk of change.

Brendan has made it abundantly clear he doesn't want him at Liverpool, so that take a lot of our bargaining position away.

If AC is insistent he wants Newcastle & only Newcastle, I don't see how we won't lose a lot of money.

You're right though, it isn't worth the paper its written on.
You quoted me before I was done editing my post so I'll repost that part:

We simply can tell Andy we are not going to sell you back to Newcastle unless they match West Ham's bid so you can either sit your arse on the bench here or be a big part of what West Ham want to do.

A swap would be a good deal for both sides
 



S

showmethemoney

Guest
ChicagoRed said:
You quoted me before I was done editing my post so I'll repost that part:

We simply can tell Andy we are not going to sell you back to Newcastle unless they match West Ham's bid so you can either sit your arse on the bench here or be a big part of what West Ham want to do.

A swap would be a good deal for both sides
I agree the a swap could be good, but I think the days of players rotting on the bench are firmly a thing of the past.

These days, the money is too vast. The agents are too powerful & 90% of the time, players get their way.

And that is my point. If Newcastle say "we will give you 12M cash tops" - what do Liverpool do?

Newcastle have amassed a great squad by being very shrewd. They won't pay 1 pence over what they have to & they could be in the position where they know AC doesn't want West Ham & wants to go back to St. James Park.

Hell, I hope he loves being in London with his mate Nolan & this is a non issue, but gut instinct says it won't be that simple.
 

LiVeRp0oL89

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
3,415
I like Ben Arfa but I'd still rather take the cash £15 million cash from West Ham. To pay £35 million for someone and just two and a half years later, perform a straight swap for a player who cost Newcastle just £7 million and has largely been injury prone in his time there just seems wrong to me.. Yes Ben Arfa is probably of equal value to Carroll, if not more at this point and many people would even say were getting the better end of this deal but I still can't help but feel as though the transfer fees paid to these players and the relatively short periods since these took place would feel as though were being robbed.. know what I mean!? lol

Now if you stuck Cabaye in with Ben Arfa, then I'd be more than happy!
 

ChicagoRed

Banned Users
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Messages
6,834
showmethemoney said:
I agree the a swap could be good, but I think the days of players rotting on the bench are firmly a thing of the past.

These days, the money is too vast. The agents are too powerful & 90% of the time, players get their way.

And that is my point. If Newcastle say "we will give you 12M cash tops" - what do Liverpool do?

Newcastle have amassed a great squad by being very shrewd. They won't pay 1 pence over what they have to & they could be in the position where they know AC doesn't want West Ham & wants to go back to St. James Park.

Hell, I hope he loves being in London with his mate Nolan & this is a non issue, but gut instinct says it won't be that simple.
I'm sure Wesley Sneijder was suprised when Inter told him they'll pay him to stay away from the club. I don't know what will happen. I can almost be postive that if they fight off relegation the whole way, lose their captain in the summer, those fans will not be happy if they don't get their boy back because of an un-popular owner (where have we heard that before) not spending the extra 5 mill in that scenario.
 

RichLFC

Always one of us. RIP.
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
11,649
Exchange deals rarely come off

Ability wise would have him here no problem. Fitness wise he is a bit of a worry

If there could be a way of nabbing a player or two off Newcastle in the process if binning off Andy though would consider it. Are some decent players in their squad, they suffered this year with a bad run of injuries and doing what we did in the summer but worse, failing to buy the players they needed

But Mike Ashley though a poor owner is not an easy man to outwit and whether we have it in us to do that, am skeptical

Forget about the 17m from West Ham. It won't be binding and they would rightly be thinking its not feasible
 

No Men in the Box Redux

Keyboard Warrior
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
1,976
No one in their right minds would pay more than 10m pounds for Carroll. West Ham will certainly not fulfill their end of the agreement unless Fat Sam is really, really adamant that Carroll is the player he wants and Carroll himself is determined to permanently move to West Ham as well.

With regards to Ben Arfa: A fantastic talent but his injury record is quite scary. A bit of a Harry Kewell. Without a doubt the most talented player right now in Newcastle is Cabaye. I don't believe Tiote has done enough to stand out in his own right. Not only is he a bit of a hot head but he seems quite defensively undisciplined. He has all the physical tools but seems to be missing a lot in terms of intelligence and mentality.

Like Rich says, swap deals rarely ever happen anyways so no point talking about this now. Best case scenario is to sell Carroll to West Ham for the proposed deal and if not, to sell him for whatever we can get and walk away and add that money to our summer transfer kitty and hopefully invest in one (or hopefully two) players of real quality that would cost upward of 20m pounds.
 



indianscouser

Anything But Normal
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
11,199
Would skip this one. Because we can get a better deal with westham. Injury prone. Would rather go for cabaye, but then we already have lots of players in that position.
Ideally sell carroll for 18mp. Get a proper no.9 in summer. I mean go broke. We should have around 20mp additional budget minimum. Get a world class striker, some one like higuan, neymar,Lewandowski or even cavani. we can easily get one of them at 38mp or less. Sell downing+spearing for 8million, invest on a good CB.
With our current squad a good CB and a world class no.9 will transform the team completely.
 

gasband

The Singaporean Liverpool Never Managed To Sign
Ad-free Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
5,270
How about Hulk? Does not seem too happy in Russia. And I always thought he would be perfect in a setup like how BR wants our attacking trio to be. If he wants to come, I think 20-25mil might cut it considering how much money the Russians spent on him.

As for Ben Arfa, I think I hold the same view point with everyone, damn good on his day but I am afraid he will just end up like how Harry Kewell ended up for us.
 

1dragon

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
2,726
It seems that Rodgers' training methods has kept Gerrard and Agger injury-free this season. For that, I think injury should not be that high a concern when signing a player, especially when it is a good deal.

However, a straight swap involving Ben Arfa and Carroll may not seem that good on our end, for reasons mentioned above. Not too excited about this one and it could be a journalist putting 2 and 2 together to make up a story. Then again, we will see how good the new scouting system is come the summer. If all we can do is shop in the PL most of the time, then we are in deep trouble.
 

WellRedKev

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,314
heres my take of it (for anyone thats interested!!haha) -

West Ham will stay up and not pursue the buying option of 17m for Andy Carroll. They will offer a poor weekly wage to void the fixed fee agreement. Newcastle will enter the fray but i can see the fee being closer to 12m than 17m. Regardless of the 35m i think 12m is a more realistic fee that clubs will be offering.

Ben Arfa could be offered in exchange. He's a cheeky pup and his comments about being interested in bigger clubs mightbe genuine. I'm not sure he would be worth a big transfer fee, 15m bracket or straight swap or whatever permutation. His talent is unquestioned, his injury record is alarming all the same. Scorer of great goals but would represent a risk i think.

I dont think you would hear too many complaints if we bought him, exciting player that he is.
 

SoueysTash

GegenPosting
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
8,178
I called this in the 'who would you buy' thread a while ago. ARD had some good points about his injury record. Personally he's one of the best players to watch at a game, on and off the ball he's superb
 



legalalien

Watcher of the skies
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
8,848
ChicagoRed said:
I'm sure Wesley Sneijder was suprised when Inter told him they'll pay him to stay away from the club. I don't know what will happen. I can almost be postive that if they fight off relegation the whole way, lose their captain in the summer, those fans will not be happy if they don't get their boy back because of an un-popular owner (where have we heard that before) not spending the extra 5 mill in that scenario.
Judging by the comments from NUFC fans in the Newcastle Chronicle article I posted in the Unreliable thread, 'those fans' will not be happy if they DO get their boy back!
 

i_still_miss_fowler

Open Your Eyes Morty!
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
7,169
SoueysTash said:
I called this in the 'who would you buy' thread a while ago. ARD had some good points about his injury record. Personally he's one of the best players to watch at a game, on and off the ball he's superb
Yep I agree, one big positive is the player himself has stated he wants to play for Liverpool.

So while exchanges rarely happen, both players and clubs appear to want this to occur.
 

!DALGLISH!

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
99
i cant see pass us siging ince. Nothing personal about any player just judging on Rodgers words about him and signing for liverpool.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
21,667
indianscouser said:
Get a world class striker, some one like higuan, neymar,Lewandowski or even cavani. we can easily get one of them at 38mp or less.
We keep forgetting that players are not commodities, and regardless of whether we meet the clubs asking price, the only way we'll get any of those lads is if they fancy the challenge of getting LFC back into the CL.

This whole if we spend x we can get y thing is a personal gripe for me.
 

RedBaron

Curse you RedBaron!!!!
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,446
ARD is great on his day but has had a few too many injuries. To be honest AC hasn't been free of them either but hopefully for us all he gets some game time until the rest of the season.
The agreement as such with WHU as I stated at the time is worthless if AC doesn't agree terms. However if he gets a run of games and scores a few goals and gets chatted up by Roy for a possible England return things may not be all bad.
AC is playing with his best mate up front and that could really help as the fans up north do not seem so happy to see him back at the club and may force his hand to accept a contract.
He is also aware that he could be sitting in the reserves for what is his footballing prime, and although our Andy loves the lifestyle he is still young enough to go on and build a rep as a player.
He could also impress clubs in the UK and even abroad with a decent run, if Villa survive they would be a decent option for him next year and I would not rule out a move to the Bundasliga (?) as some teams like the style he plays.
This exchange IMO would be a poor option to the above and as I said if he can have a decent run in the PL until the summer we may well get a reasonable price for him.
I am still astounded that we did not get MS from Toulouse, stupidly cheap and a class player I would love to know why we weren't interested, he would have jumped at the chance to play for us.
 



Delusional geordie

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
347
You have got to laugh at the Guardian they do try to have sports section but it is mostly comedy gold. Ben Arfa will leave us. But as he has said many times it will be for a champions league club of PSG which though it may pain you probably rules you out (well positively on one score cause you are never going to be PSG!). Secondly swapping him for Carroll, Cashley has already fleeced you once his not going to swap one of his best chances of making big bucks for Andy Carroll. No-one is going to pay anything near 17m for Carroll so if he did enter into any such deal (purely hypothetically of course) I would think he would want a significant wadge of cash + Carroll. I hazard a guess we value Carrol at £5-8m. I hazard a guess so does everyone else. Might go up if he has a blinder with wetspam but there are a lot of barstools to fall off by May.
 

legalalien

Watcher of the skies
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
8,848
RedBaron said:
ARD is great on his day but has had a few too many injuries. To be honest AC hasn't been free of them either but hopefully for us all he gets some game time until the rest of the season.
The agreement as such with WHU as I stated at the time is worthless if AC doesn't agree terms. However if he gets a run of games and scores a few goals and gets chatted up by Roy for a possible England return things may not be all bad.
Yeah, but he doesn't let it stop him from posting almost everyday, does he? What a pro!
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.
Admin
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
22,969
I agree with delusional geardie. This has 0% chance to happen. Why? Because Ben Arfa is not in the slightest interested in LFC. As DG says above, he has PSG on his mind, or at least an established CL club, and has repeatedly stated so.

Also, people in here like to make out the current Newcastle board/management as some stupid loonies, when they indeed ripped us off with the Carroll deal, and have outscored us repeatedly in the transfer market since. Maybe there is interest from them for Carroll, but rather for a price like the one cited above (5-8m), which is probably about Carroll's correct current value, given his injuries this season. So, why would they agree for a straight swap Carroll Ben Arfa when they can get much more money for the Frenchman from somewhere else?

As for Ben Arfa considering LFC, just forget it, folks. No chance at all for this to happen.
 

SoueysTash

GegenPosting
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
8,178
i_still_miss_fowler said:
Yep I agree, one big positive is the player himself has stated he wants to play for Liverpool.

So while exchanges rarely happen, both players and clubs appear to want this to occur.
Do question where he'd play though? Backup for Hendo at the top of the midfield? From what I've see he's more a through the middle player with his cute through balls and tricky play, I guess I'm so used to us only having 1 and a half players for each position I forget the importance of rotation !
 

indianscouser

Anything But Normal
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
11,199
Mascot88 said:
We keep forgetting that players are not commodities, and regardless of whether we meet the clubs asking price, the only way we'll get any of those lads is if they fancy the challenge of getting LFC back into the CL.

This whole if we spend x we can get y thing is a personal gripe for me.
And dont forget, the other way is also true. We get one of them, guarentee 4th spot. Have you considered that? Do you want us waste money in fringe players like borini and allen?. Forget players who arent interested, there are still quality players outhere who would love to join us. i can think of turan[not in 20mill bracket though], cavani never said no and liniking up suarez will benifit us. Just saying.
 



Status
Not open for further replies.