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Hatem Ben Arfa (AM) Newcastle

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gasband

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DeathOrGlory said:
I believe you can't keep scraping your way past transfers with the excuse of "ifs" and "maybes".

We've missed out on too much in the past. I say we go for him. If he gets injured a lot, so be it. We took a risk. If he stays uninjured, he could be very, very good for us.

We've scraped so much off the wage bill, we should easily be able to afford him.
I think what we do not want is a repeat of Aquilani. Talented but we all knew how it all turns out for him. Like I said, every single signing is a mixture of maybes and ifs and no one can ever predict whether a signing will make it or not. But for every signing, we also need to mitigate risks, like what we did with Aquilani, we decided to go ahead and sign him despite his injury history. Maybe Ben Arfa will not turn out like that but so far there is no indication that he is truly over his injuries.
 


S

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DeathOrGlory said:
I believe you can't keep scraping your way past transfers with the excuse of "ifs" and "maybes".

We've missed out on too much in the past. I say we go for him. If he gets injured a lot, so be it. We took a risk. If he stays uninjured, he could be very, very good for us.

We've scraped so much off the wage bill, we should easily be able to afford him.
One thing good about having a diverse history is there's a lot to be learned from it. If we're not going to learn from past mistakes then we have no way of returning to the top.
If Brenden's going to pay a multi-million transfer fee on the next Kewell / Aquiliani / Cole he should be ready to pay for it with his Anfield career. From his own perspective it's not worth the risk. Neither is it worth it from the club's point of view with every penny being important. Plenty of other fish in the sea.
 

indianscouser

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Dont take this injury as an excuse. Look at borini. We had agger , now he has put his injuries behind, same with steve. We probably have one of the best medics in sports. i am sure if he can make steve and agger fit for a season, Ben harfa wont be an issue. But yes, dont expect him to play 40 games a season. May be 20. And that 20 games will be much more productive than allen+borini combined for the entire season.
 

dxb_red

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indianscouser said:
Dont take this injury as an excuse. Look at borini. We had agger , now he has put his injuries behind, same with steve. We probably have one of the best medics in sports. i am sure if he can make steve and agger fit for a season, Ben harfa wont be an issue. But yes, dont expect him to play 40 games a season. May be 20. And that 20 games will be much more productive than allen+borini combined for the entire season.
sorry, but how can you say that arfa will be more productive than allen + borini combined? thats just ridiculous. borini has hardly played for us because he has been out injured. At least give the guy a chance to show what he can do before you judge him.
 

JustHitMyHead

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indianscouser said:
Dont take this injury as an excuse. Look at borini. We had agger , now he has put his injuries behind, same with steve. We probably have one of the best medics in sports. i am sure if he can make steve and agger fit for a season, Ben harfa wont be an issue. But yes, dont expect him to play 40 games a season. May be 20. And that 20 games will be much more productive than allen+borini combined for the entire season.
That is terrible reasoning... Just because we may have made a mistake with Allen & Borini, doesn't mean we should make another mistake because it is slightly less of one.

Ben Arfa is a good buy at the right price (~7 or 8m) but he is unlike to be available at that price. If he were to cost more, do you think that the 20 games you suggest he would play would put his production on par with other players in the 15m range???
 



dxb_red

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JustHitMyHead said:
That is terrible reasoning... Just because we may have made a mistake with Allen & Borini, doesn't mean we should make another mistake because it is slightly less of one.

Ben Arfa is a good buy at the right price (~7 or 8m) but he is unlike to be available at that price. If he were to cost more, do you think that the 20 games you suggest he would play would put his production on par with other players in the 15m range???
if you buy ben arfa, you're buying half a player...he averages 15-20 games a season, and he has done over his entire career...he actually started a year before suarez, but luis has played 43% more games than ben arfa...43%! now, hypothetically of course, how would you react if you found out that we had signed a new player, but he can only play for us for half the season, and the other half he plays for another team?? we'd be outraged, and at the very least we'd expect to only pay half his value...why then are we happy to pay for a player who, chances are, will only be available for half the season?! it makes no sense at all..
 

The Elusive 19th

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dxb_red said:
it makes no sense at all..
Exactly in line with our transfer policy then. It doesn't make any sense too. ;)

Seriously, this is just a rumour and knowing our recent 2 transfers, this is a no go.

So chill it will ya.
 

gavlfc7

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The Elusive 19th said:
Exactly in line with our transfer policy then. It doesn't make any sense too. ;)

Seriously, this is just a rumour and knowing our recent 2 transfers, this is a no go.

So chill it will ya.
haha thank god it's only a rumour!
 

RedLaw

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Well if there is genuine interest on our end then yesterday's result and performance wouldn't have done our chances any harm. Bet he must of been wishing his was wearing red instead of black and white.
 

Nikola

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RedLaw said:
Well if there is genuine interest on our end then yesterday's result and performance wouldn't have done our chances any harm. Bet he must of been wishing his was wearing red instead of black and white.
I guess it could be said about most Newcastle players judging by yesterday's performance. Only Sissoko really tried, though I can't fault Ben Arfa for anything he did in his cameo. Mind you, if he was a Man United player, that shot that hit Lucas would have been a penalty.
 



darren kelly

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We have the new Maradona =Coutinho.
Who needs Ben Arfa.


Let us get a defender of top quality that has to be out target.
 

DeathOrGlory

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I think very recent history has taught us that we need more than one or two creative players, L/A...
 
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gasband

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DeathOrGlory said:
I think very recent history has taught us that we need more than one or two creative players, L/A...
I agree. But not Ben Arfa.
 

redfanman

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while we need more creative players signed, i think Ben Arfa isnt the one we should go for.
 

Lucent skyeglider

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How can we even be having this debate? Who wants a player who plays less than half the games every season and spends the rest of the season on the injured list? Talented or not he's extremely injury prone and would come on relatively high wages. Even if he signed a Pay-as-you-play deal he still wouldn't be worth it in my opinion because he be taking up a valuable squad space when he doesn't play. I'd be hugely disappointed if the club is seriously considering this.
 



indianscouser

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Expectation we have is wrong. He aint going to play 30 games. He will be here for 18 games max. He will basically play when suarez/coutinho get suspended/injured. I think we need a player like that. He is very direct, love to dribble and run like a bull. It would be very handy in games where breaking down opposition is an issue.With some luck, he can be one heck of a player.Whether he wants to come here is another issue.
 
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redfanman

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indianscouser said:
Expectation we have is wrong. He aint going to play 30 games. He will be here for 18 games max. He will basically play when suarez/coutinho get suspended/injured. I think we need a player like that. He is very direct, love to dribble and run like a bull. It would be very handy in games where breaking down opposition is an issue.With some luck, he can be one heck of a player.Whether he wants to come here is another issue.
but what happens if he is injured when we want him covering Suarez and Coutinho? injury prone players dont come with the option of choosing which games they are fit for.
 

indianscouser

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redfanman said:
but what happens if he is injured when we want him covering Suarez and Coutinho? injury prone players dont come with the option of choosing which games they are fit for.
The reason he is injury prone is because he is over used. Didnt we have a similar situation with Agger?. I certainly think the lad is not another aurellio. I think we missed out on BA too. Many of us here said he is too injury prone. We should also consdier the fact that if these players are fit for 10-15 games, they make heck of a difference. It could be the difference between 4th and 6th.
 

JustHitMyHead

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indianscouser said:
The reason he is injury prone is because he is over used. Didnt we have a similar situation with Agger?. I certainly think the lad is not another aurellio. I think we missed out on BA too. Many of us here said he is too injury prone. We should also consdier the fact that if these players are fit for 10-15 games, they make heck of a difference. It could be the difference between 4th and 6th.
I like Ben Arfa too... but we should only pay half the price for half the player. And that goes for salary too.

If there are no other options then we would be forced to pay the price but I do think there are other options.
 

Speckydodge

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indianscouser said:
The reason he is injury prone is because he is over used. Didnt we have a similar situation with Agger?. I certainly think the lad is not another aurellio. I think we missed out on BA too. Many of us here said he is too injury prone. We should also consdier the fact that if these players are fit for 10-15 games, they make heck of a difference. It could be the difference between 4th and 6th.
Why even target a player you believe will only be fit for 10-15 matches?? It doesn't make sense. Why not concentrate on getting a similar player with similar attributes that you believe should be available all season, something that is very doable for similar money.
 



boston red

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indianscouser said:
The reason he is injury prone is because he is over used. Didnt we have a similar situation with Agger?. I certainly think the lad is not another aurellio. I think we missed out on BA too. Many of us here said he is too injury prone. We should also consdier the fact that if these players are fit for 10-15 games, they make heck of a difference. It could be the difference between 4th and 6th.
So he could miss out on 23 to 28 games if he came here..6th if he came? probably have that # this year..
 

redfanman

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indianscouser said:
The reason he is injury prone is because he is over used. Didnt we have a similar situation with Agger?. I certainly think the lad is not another aurellio. I think we missed out on BA too. Many of us here said he is too injury prone. We should also consdier the fact that if these players are fit for 10-15 games, they make heck of a difference. It could be the difference between 4th and 6th.
How can he be injury prone from being over used when he hardly plays? and again, we cant determine which games he is fit for.
 

therealkeano1

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Speckydodge said:
Why even target a player you believe will only be fit for 10-15 matches?? It doesn't make sense. Why not concentrate on getting a similar player with similar attributes that you believe should be available all season, something that is very doable for similar money.
To replace saurez for the 8 games he misses per season.
 

schmee

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indianscouser said:
The reason he is injury prone is because he is over used. Didnt we have a similar situation with Agger?. I certainly think the lad is not another aurellio. I think we missed out on BA too. Many of us here said he is too injury prone. We should also consdier the fact that if these players are fit for 10-15 games, they make heck of a difference. It could be the difference between 4th and 6th.
This has got to be one of the weirdest arguments for a player that I've ever read.

We should buy a player who can only play 16 games a season as he'll be good in those 16 games??

Do we view every transfer like that? We're going to have to really fill up on under 21s as our squad quota will be full from getting the players who are going to be fit for the first two thirds ofvthe season.

Surely when we buy a player we do so with the foresight and forward planning that they'll be available for and have the quality to positively influence as many games as possible?

Why in God's earth would we plan to get a player who could influence 16 games over the season (not even 16 of our choice) yet pay the same type of money as we would someone who we hope will be fit for the whole season?
 



DEVGRU

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Does Afra appear to be injury prone or was this his first major spell out with a long term injury?
 

Speckydodge

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SUPER PORK CHOP said:
Does Afra appear to be injury prone or was this his first major spell out with a long term injury?
Had numerous spells out with Newcastle , some unlucky it must be said but he's been injured more then available . Had a bad injury record at Marseille also.
 

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Speckydodge said:
Why even target a player you believe will only be fit for 10-15 matches?? It doesn't make sense. Why not concentrate on getting a similar player with similar attributes that you believe should be available all season, something that is very doable for similar money.
schmee said:
Why in God's earth would we plan to get a player who could influence 16 games over the season (not even 16 of our choice) yet pay the same type of money as we would someone who we hope will be fit for the whole season?
I'm a bit confused as to why you guys think that his injury history wouldn't be a factor in his valuation.

Also its pretty crazy to think that you could get a healthy version of Arfa for the same amount. If it was really that simple/easy then every team in the league would be trying to buy the hypothetical healthy version of Arfa who's costs the same as the injury prone Arfa and is just as good.
 

RedLaw

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If Ben Arfa didn't have any injury problems he'd be linked with every Champions League club under the sun. The fact there are question marks over his fitness means they're not interested, which gives us a decent chance of signing him.

As a club who will more than likely not even get into Europe next season, we're in a position where we're going to have to take calculated risks to get back where we want to be. If we could get in a player of his quality, perhaps solve some of his fitness issues and play him for a good number of games over the next few seasons then we'd only benefit from that.
 



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